Universal health care wouldn't be that bad if...
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CAKochenash
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Not to sound like a dick but...I think I should be responsible for my own health and the health of my family.
micahnelson
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Socialism fails. Universal Health Care is Socialism. Universal Health Care fails.
The free market is the best way to provide any service to an individual.
The free market is the best way to provide any service to an individual.
Everything provided by government is bad. The whole basis of government is based on an immoral idea that stealing from one person to give to another is a good thing. If the basis of government's entire existence is bad, then nothing they produce can ever be good.
I need to dig up a John Stossel piece on universal healthcare for you. I really liked his analogy that went something like this...
Imagine if you had food insurance that covered all your trips to the grocery store in a month. Who would buy hamburger when they could buy steak? The grocery stores would continually raise their prices because their customers wouldn't care.
Add to that the problems of killing innovation and efficiency...the inevitable shortage of doctors and nurses...it just isn't a good way to do things. We know this from looking at other first world countries who have universal health care already.
Imagine if you had food insurance that covered all your trips to the grocery store in a month. Who would buy hamburger when they could buy steak? The grocery stores would continually raise their prices because their customers wouldn't care.
Add to that the problems of killing innovation and efficiency...the inevitable shortage of doctors and nurses...it just isn't a good way to do things. We know this from looking at other first world countries who have universal health care already.
If it's "opt-in" then it's not universal. And when the existence of the program depends on taxes, which are not voluntary otherwise they wouldn't be taxes, the existence of the program depends on money taken at the barrel of the gun. And if the government is allowed to take some money at the barrel of the gun, they will ALWAYS attempt to take more.
ItsTime
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You do not need Uni Health care for that to happen, it is happening right now.
Cost of an I-phone goes down... Cost of chemo goes UP.....
Why should those don't opt in be forced to pay for those who do?
With the insurance companies? Yes. John Stossel had a good segment on that too. But the reason people are being swindled by insurance companies it that they want it to do for them what universal health care would. Not to mention that the insurance companies are in bed with the FDA.
I actually think Universal Health Care wouldn't be so bad. Canada/France/England have it, are in better health statistically (France is #1 I think), and spend less per Capita than we do here. (We tend to here the horror stories from Canada but the sucesses and truth is more mundane and don't sell newspapers as they say.)
Germany has a capitalistic health care system, but every employer has to provide health care there (even to McDonald's employees) so the costs of healthcare aren't dumped on the taxpayers like Walmart does with it's employees (through medicare and medicaid). Germany also has lower costs, seems competetent, and have short waiting times. My father had some type of stomach surgery here in the U.S. - he was in the hospital for 16 hours, and then went home to recuperate. It cost 15,000 dollars. 2 weeks later, he was in Germany, had to get emergency surgery (internal bleeding, the sutures were not put in correctly) and it was the exact same procedure but the doctors kept him in the hospital for 5 days - with his own room. It cost $6,500 and that was after his insurance denied him because they weren't "American doctors" so there was "no telling if these doctors were qualified." Amazing, since here things cost 2-10x as much without insurance, I know.
I think a hybrid system like we have here in the U.S. is the absolute worst. Something needs to be done.
Germany has a capitalistic health care system, but every employer has to provide health care there (even to McDonald's employees) so the costs of healthcare aren't dumped on the taxpayers like Walmart does with it's employees (through medicare and medicaid). Germany also has lower costs, seems competetent, and have short waiting times. My father had some type of stomach surgery here in the U.S. - he was in the hospital for 16 hours, and then went home to recuperate. It cost 15,000 dollars. 2 weeks later, he was in Germany, had to get emergency surgery (internal bleeding, the sutures were not put in correctly) and it was the exact same procedure but the doctors kept him in the hospital for 5 days - with his own room. It cost $6,500 and that was after his insurance denied him because they weren't "American doctors" so there was "no telling if these doctors were qualified." Amazing, since here things cost 2-10x as much without insurance, I know.
I think a hybrid system like we have here in the U.S. is the absolute worst. Something needs to be done.
ItsTime
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Ill break down Clintons plan from a personal level here.
I went to the ER in 1999 cost (rounded up) $100
I went to the Er in 2006 cost (rounded up) $200
Total $300
It would have cost me on avg $500 a month for insurance. 500x12=$6000 a year
$6000x7=$42,000
It would have cost me $42,000 for $300 in health care... Who wins that?
micahnelson
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Deregulate and allow the free market to win out.
For instance, do you need a man with a PhD to give you an antibiotic when you are sick? Couldn't a nurse do that for half the cost?
If the government wasn't obligated to pick up the tab, do you think the tab would be so high?
For instance, do you need a man with a PhD to give you an antibiotic when you are sick? Couldn't a nurse do that for half the cost?
If the government wasn't obligated to pick up the tab, do you think the tab would be so high?
Okay then aside form teh fact that we cannot afford it excpet in a XTC induced fanatsy world full of rainbows and unicorns.....
I think it is a HORRIBLE IDEA and here's the short version.
Pharma or the Medical Industrial Complex is EVIL and CORRUPT
IT OWNS the FDA....THE FDA protects Pharma from US! (yet was oprignnaly intended to protect us form them)
Pharm now writes Medical shool books and OWNS Drs.
Drs. can no longer innovate or practice as they see fit them must follow RULES that PHRAMA makes up that ensure sales of DRUGS!!!! ITS a flawed Biased system.
There goal is not to cure but to drug you for life with SYMPTOM supressing DRUGS! I will NEVER give a penny to any Cancer Non Profist b/c it all goes to Pharma and the race fro teh cure etc etc its BOGUS!! LIES LIES LIES!!!!
Phrama is also, via the FDA starting to ban supplements and herbs and alt. treatmnets known to be Competition to the drugs and these alternatives often CURE in many cases and dont supress symtoms! WE have a Monopoly!!! Its corporatism at its finest! They are also dragging Drs. into court for treating as they see fit! Its total fascism and it is getting worse daily. If I want to take soem Funky salve as my treatmnet for cancer as bogus as it might seem to others, I should be allowed to take it!!!!!
Why would you ever want to superimpose Universal Health care on an already corrupt government system?? One that is giving us a monopoly and NO choices!!!There woudl be No choice in your care or your treatmnet options! But it woudl be Big phramas fantasy!!
Sounds like a death sentence to me - and I have had a chronic illness and know Free mkts would nip this in teh BUD!
Socailism doesnt work - I dont want the govt in control of my health - who cares if I lose my home and car and job if i dont get good health care and die anyway!! Why does everyone always assume its a choice b/t what we have NOW and Socialistic medicine ----ahhhh but thats what tehy want you to belive! That what we have NOW is b/c of capitilism...and look how its failed, but its not free mkts!...Its a priveleged monopoly enjoyed by Pharam that has paid off Congress and the FDA for favorable legilsation and treatmnet! It wouldnt suprise me if they are also somehow giving us the diseases to keep propsects in teh pipeline!
Its horrible !!!! If I dont want it...... Ill have to still pay for yours!!!! UGH! Its oppressive on so many fronts - wanna peek inside socialzed medicine - go visit your local VA!!!!!! Still think its sounds great....???
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Uh, have you actually looked at the crisis those countries are in? Tony Blair recently had to tell a woman forced to pull her own teeth, "Look, I'm sorry, but I can't just invent new dentists." Becoming a doctor in those countries isn't worth it. If they do become a doctor they often immigrate to other countries...like here. Citizens of those countries are crossing the border so they don't have to wait a year on a heart transplatn they need today or what have you.
The thing is, you can't just say, "They have better health, therefore it must be the universal health care that is to thank." That's not at all logical. There are many reasons why Americans die younger and have poorer health overall that have nothing to do with whether you're "universal" care is gov't funded or a private insurance corp or your savings account. Americans drive far, far more cars than those other countries do which results in a huge number of deaths each year. There's more crime in America. The list goes on, all resulting in a lower life expectancy, more injuries and deaths, what have you.
I don't think you can say it's capitalistic if businesses are FORCED to provide healthcare for their employees. That's a really flawed system to begin with, seeing as how the average American changes employers every three to five years and a supposed "all inclusive" system doesn't include stay-at-home parents and the self-employed.
You say it's not dumping the burden on taxpayers, but it is. It's raising prices all across the board, which increases inflation and hurts the people. The employer's insurance is ALWAYS going to cost more and be less efficient than if the individual sought it himself.
More and more I think that people just want a magic solution that involves gambling on the government or an insurance company hoping that somehow they'll eventually win the jackpot or beat the system. It just doesn't work that way.
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WRONG AGAIN! THEY WAIT IN LINES FOR EVER TO SEE SPECIALISTS - do teh wealthy wait in lines - HEck no!!! Will miss oprah winfrey teh big proposer of socialize dmedicien wait in line?? Heck NO!!! What do teh wealthy do in UK, Canada and France - tehy get their butts on a plane anf come here or jet wherever to BUY teh best!!!!! Its a sham hsma sham!
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