Unions Kill The Twinkie

[Confederate]

OK, Unions 101 question here: why couldn't Hostess fire the whole lot of 'em, put up a help wanted sign, and watch the applications flow in during a time of massive unemployement? Be specific.

Unions have probably strong-armed politicians into passing laws making that illegal.

 

[JK/SEA]

Who did he insult? Last I checked unions are not ronpaulforums.com members...or people for that matter.

the blanket comment of CJ's post an unions destroying shit is absurd and an insult to this union member. How about i insult the mods?...all of em..even though they are a fair bunch for the most part. What do you think would happen to me?...

 

[Tpoints]

I posted this yesterday.

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?395837-Do-Twinkies-really-last-forever

seeing as my thread died and this one floats... what do you guys think of this slant:

That sounds like the Bain method to me.

I don't get the Bain method, can somebody explain it to me?

First of all, who would agree to let Bain own or manage them?
How does a company get into debt they don't want or can't pay? (if they do, whose fault is it?)
Who are the people "rewarding themselves" and "while the company goes into debt"? Who would allow it?

 

[Tpoints]

the blanket comment of CJ's post an unions destroying shit is absurd and an insult to this union member. How about i insult the mods?...all of em..even though they are a fair bunch for the most part. What do you think would happen to me?...

is anybody forcing you to stay here and endure insults??

 

[JK/SEA]

is anybody forcing you to stay here and endure insults??

so..TOS rules don't apply to mods..that what you're saying?

 

[Tpoints]

so..TOS rules don't apply to mods..that what you're saying?

No, didn't say that.

 

[tod evans]

I don't get the Bain method, can somebody explain it to me?

First of all, who would agree to let Bain own or manage them?
How does a company get into debt they don't want or can't pay? (if they do, whose fault is it?)
Who are the people "rewarding themselves" and "while the company goes into debt"? Who would allow it?

Read a bit on Interstate's financial woes and who profited from them, it's not all one side's good and the other bad.

Business isn't as simple as quarterly profit.......Unless that's what you want to focus on..

 

[Brian4Liberty]

OK, Unions 101 question here: why couldn't Hostess fire the whole lot of 'em, put up a help wanted sign, and watch the applications flow in during a time of massive unemployement? Be specific.

Already answered in earlier posts and links:

Based in Greenwich, Conn., Silver Point was founded in 2002 and has approximately $6.5 billion under management; its two co-founders are 49-year-old Edward Mulé and 47-year-old Robert O'Shea, both former Goldman Sachs (GS) partners.
...
Silver Point and Monarch, along with about 20 other lenders, owned about $450 million of Hostess secured debt at the time of the bankruptcy filing in 2004, according to court records. Remarkably, though -- given that Hostess's financials are now supposed to be an open book in federal bankruptcy court -- it's unclear how much the lenders actually paid for those notes. But it's presumably less than face value. Opportunistic investors like Silver Point and Monarch commonly buy distressed debt at a considerable discount. Their strategy: Invest in fundamentally "good" companies that have "bad" capital structures brought about by overborrowing, bankruptcy, or other corporate stresses.

Neither the specific amount put up by each investor nor the percentage of the total debt is public record (In re Hostess Brands, Case No. 12-22052). So it's impossible to know for sure how much "skin in the game" the creditors have. But according to sources with knowledge of Hostess's debt structure, Silver Point owns about 30% of the debt; Monarch, also about 30%; and the other lenders combined own the remaining 40%. Clearly, it was Silver Point and Monarch, along with Ripplewood, that had the biggest bets going forward.
...
(more good information at link)
...
As the majority equity holder, Ripplewood badly wanted to keep Hostess out of bankruptcy. It pleaded with the lenders to show flexibility, but they were not so inclined. They lenders held superior fiscal hands and had less downside if Hostess failed. In the event of a bankruptcy, given all the assets Hostess owned, the lenders would still walk away with millions.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2012-11-16/hostess-liquidation-curious-cast-characters-twinkie-tumbles

Bottom line: Creditors wanted to walk away with their money intact. Bankruptcy did that for them.

 

[ghengis86]

in right to work state maybe. I'm pretty sure if your scenario were played out, i can guarantee in a few years Unions would gain more prominence due to employer abuses. The workers, like back in the early 1900's would be getting together to form a union. This scenario of getting rid of unions reminds me of prohibition of alcohol. Yeah, looks good on paper, but in reality we'd end up with an army of new Boss Tweeds with the big whip. Ain't gonna fly.

In the Internet age, I doubt it. Whistleblowers can bring companies to their knees. Consumers can act in concert to affect change without the use of violence (absent government bailouts).

And, people are free to quit if they don't care for the wage or conditions.

 

[JK/SEA]

you want to complain about gas? try not having a car.

geez, if i knew you didn't have a car, you coulda had one of my beaters. I had 3 running ones but sold them for cheap a few years ago.

 

[JK/SEA]

In the Internet age, I doubt it. Whistleblowers can bring companies to their knees. Consumers can act in concert to affect change without the use of violence (absent government bailouts).

And, people are free to quit if they don't care for the wage or conditions.

why should they quit?...why can't employers treat their workers well?...seems like a good biz practice to me. Keep em happy. They work for you, and are glad to because you treat them well...union or otherwise...

 

[Tpoints]

why should they quit?...why can't employers treat their workers well?...seems like a good biz practice to me. Keep em happy. They work for you, and are glad to because you treat them well...union or otherwise...

they should quit if they don't want what they're getting, nobody owes them anything, not even the robbers from Bain.

Employers treat people well if they deserve it, the same reason employers pay people well because they deserve it.

Keeping people happy is important, but there are many ways to do it other than treating them well.

 

[Confederate]

the blanket comment of CJ's post an unions destroying shit is absurd and an insult to this union member. How about i insult the mods?...all of em..even though they are a fair bunch for the most part. What do you think would happen to me?...

He didn't insult union members, he insulted unions. Plenty of people here insult government, that doesn't mean they're insulting Ron and Rand, Amash and Gunny, and all those who are part of the government.

Unions are destructive. They're parasites on industry.

 

[tod evans]

why should they quit?...why can't employers treat their workers well?...seems like a good biz practice to me. Keep em happy. They work for you, and are glad to because you treat them well...union or otherwise...

It's a real bad environment for unions now what with major unemployment, strategically management made the right choice ethically the wrong one.

It's all over now but the crying..

 

[Original_Intent]

The real tragedy of this mess is that normally if their were big problems between labor and management, it would result in more entrepreneurship if management got too stingy with employees. However, with all the regulations and red tape to do your own business, many empoyees are effectively trapped with either having a job or doing without. I think this is a warning shot by collective management to collective labor that they will do what management says when management says and for what management says they will pay. I am no fan of unions, but I do feel that too much power has shifted into the hands of the corporatocracy.

 

[Tpoints]

geez, if i knew you didn't have a car, you coulda had one of my beaters. I had 3 running ones but sold them for cheap a few years ago.

I'm not complaining about gas, I can tell you that

 

[Tpoints]

It's a real bad environment for unions now what with major unemployment, strategically management made the right choice ethically the wrong one.

It's all over now but the crying..

that's exactly the point, unions have less power when the market supplies replacements.

 

[emazur]

in right to work state maybe. I'm pretty sure if your scenario were played out, i can guarantee in a few years Unions would gain more prominence due to employer abuses. The workers, like back in the early 1900's would be getting together to form a union. This scenario of getting rid of unions reminds me of prohibition of alcohol. Yeah, looks good on paper, but in reality we'd end up with an army of new hard asses with the big whip. Ain't gonna fly.

I'm not saying get rid of unions (except for public sector ones) - they are free to collectively bargain if they want, but the employer should be free to reject their terms if unreasonable and fire them all if necessary. Otherwise, I don't see any limit to what a union could demand.

 

[tod evans]

The real tragedy of this mess is that normally if their were big problems between labor and management, it would result in more entrepreneurship if management got too stingy with employees. However, with all the regulations and red tape to do your own business, many empoyees are effectively trapped with either having a job or doing without. I think this is a warning shot by collective management to collective labor that they will do what management says when management says and for what management says they will pay. I am no fan of unions, but I do feel that too much power has shifted into the hands of the corporatocracy.

Then it's time for the union members to rally capitol and buy back interstate and fire all the suits.

 

[JK/SEA]

It's a real bad environment for unions now what with major unemployment, strategically management made the right choice ethically the wrong one.

It's all over now but the crying..

probably true. However, what goes around comes around. Can't we just all get along?...lol