Unions Kill The Twinkie

[torchbearer]

CNBC Squawk Box had very good coverage. Hostess is made up of union and non union employees.

It was a combination over the years of bad management, and unions. The current CEO tried hard on what had to be done to keep Hostess operating. 8% across the board cut in salaries(Every single employee CEO to janitor) less contributions to 401Ks, and help on other cost cutting measures. The equity firm alone, lost 30 million this year.

I would like to see Little Debbie's biz model for a comparison.

The Bakers Union were suicidial, refused the cuts, now they can become more of the mooching class, we'll have to pay for down the road, BUT... I do beleive the Twinkie will live on

We have a 'right-to-work' non-union hostess plant here in alexandria.
they just shifted most their work load from other plants to our plant and are hiring people locally.
many thanks to the union plants that helped deliver this bounty to us.

 

[Odin]

It could be a good thing if those workers got more productive jobs (they wont but oh well).

For instance if they got jobs producing goods that can actually increase quality of life for people then it would be a good thing but unfortunately that could only happen in a free market.

 

[torchbearer]

It could be a good thing if those workers got more productive jobs (they wont but oh well).

For instance if they got jobs producing goods that can actually increase quality of life for people then it would be a good thing but unfortunately that could only happen in a free market.

they are producing food products. that is wealth creation.

 

[Victor Grey]

Sounds fairly clear to me.

Company management took a risk trying to up production. That failed, unions were asked to pay for the failure. They refused, now they don't have a job, and the management doesn't have a company.

 

[The Free Hornet]

lets be real. The strategy is/was to break the Union. Trust me, the dogs in mgmt. in a few years will resurrect Wonder/Hostess as non-union, which will guarantee the upper class and stock holders their pound of flesh in the guise of FRN's...and instead of good paying living wages, and benefits there will be zero medical and pension plans that pay perhaps 10 bucks hr. I wouldn't work in a bakery for that. I also operated ovens, and in the summer months i recorded 110 degrees in the area. Exhaust fans were always on high mode to keep it at that temp. Go ahead, TRY and work in a bakery like that for those wages. I'd love to see one of you try. I've seen many people walk off the job because of the conditions and very hard work required. Its not for everybody.

Your employer should not spend your paycheck which is what a "medical plan" does. As for pensions, the US labor unions are born of coercion. Anything won in negotiation ought be taken away just as you would take money from a bank robber. If this latest deal is bilking somebody, it is likely not the first time.

Pensions should be avoided at most any cost until/unless union members agree to die at prescribed times. Let a big insurance company dabble with annuities and actuarian tables.

I don't know if $10/hr is suitable, I do know that costs will continue to skyrocket so long as taxation and regulations continue to distort markets. What would they do with more money:

- pay real estate taxes
- pay SSN/medicare taxes
- pay the bloated doctor salaries (AMA might as well be a union)
- pay for all the baloney IP cruft and FDA-approved medicinals
- pay increasing sales tax
- pay for compliance with all regulations
- pay for the public pensions (state taxes, auto fees)
- pay energy taxes

We have malinvestment in this country and more money won't fix it. Why fret over somebody getting 10 disney bucks per hour or 20 disney bucks per hour?

 

[Odin]

they are producing food products. that is wealth creation.

"Food" I guess haha. It's not going to make one's life better.

Would you rather 18,500 workers work on making twinkies, or build factories, computers, capital goods, exportable products, etc?

 

[torchbearer]

"Food" I guess haha. It's not going to make one's life better.

Would you rather 18,500 workers work on making twinkies, or build factories, computers, capital goods, exportable products, etc?

I'd rather they make robots that make everything else.
hostess does sell bread.... and other products beyond just sugar bread.

 

[TheGrinch]

"Food" I guess haha. It's not going to make one's life better.

Would you rather 18,500 workers work on making twinkies, or build factories, computers, capital goods, exportable products, etc?

And why do you assume that only "products that make people's lives better" would be possible in a truly free market? That's a rather bizarre claim, and doesn't follow.

Fact stands that as long as there's a demand for crap food like Twinkies, someone will produce it. I have no idea where you got the idea that business exists to make people's lives better. That's a selling point for the consumer, not the ends of even good-hearted businessmen.

 

[Victor Grey]

I'd rather they make robots that make everything

Edited.

This is my opinion.

 

[angelatc]

"Food" I guess haha. It's not going to make one's life better.

Would you rather 18,500 workers work on making twinkies, or build factories, computers, capital goods, exportable products, etc?

Twinkies make my life better. I pick Twinkies.

 

[TheGrinch]

Twinkies make my life better. I pick Twinkies.

That too. Who's to say what makes my life better? I don't eat sweets, but I do drink beer and love to the point that I'm now working in the craft beer industry.

One could argue that drinking doesn't better one's life, nor does stuffing their face with unhealthy foods, but if it makes you happy, well, that's liberty...

 

[JK/SEA]

Oh please. If you are suggesting that violence against individuals and private property is not a real threat with many unions, you are being as blind to the faults of your side as are the blind supporters of corporate management. Union violence is historical fact. I have personally been a law clerk in trials involving union violence. Some unions are essentially organized criminal rackets.

hmmm....Union violence today is more of a myth than fact. Union violence today if it does occur,is limited to petty vandalism like a flat tire. When was the last time anyone was killed from Union violence?...history of Union violence was often times perpetrated by Company goons busting heads, and shootings of picket line workers at the behest of company owners so they could keep paying slave wages, and not have to improve working conditions.

 

[idiom]

The point of taking a company to bankruptcy is not to get the employees fired, but to change out the owners and management. The unions expect that someone else more 'reasonable' will buy the brands out of liquidation and re-hire the existing workforce.

 

[JK/SEA]

As a subsidiary of Bimbo?

when i was at Wonderbread we all thought that might happen after the closure. We also thought the large Bakery in Canada, (Maple Leaf)? might take over. Didn't happen..

 

[pcosmar]

hmmm....Union violence today is more of a myth than fact.

Hmm, Union Benefits are more more of a myth than fact these days.

The FED Gov has safety regulations in place to insure workplace safety.. (overbearing as they are) And slave labor wages,, Please !

Slaves don't get paid. If you agree to work for a Dollar an Hour, or a Dollar a day that is up to you.

I would be more than willing to take your job for Minimum wage. (I have been unemployed for 6 years)

 

[JK/SEA]

Your employer should not spend your paycheck which is what a "medical plan" does. As for pensions, the US labor unions are born of coercion. Anything won in negotiation ought be taken away just as you would take money from a bank robber. If this latest deal is bilking somebody, it is likely not the first time.

Pensions should be avoided at most any cost until/unless union members agree to die at prescribed times. Let a big insurance company dabble with annuities and actuarian tables.

I don't know if $10/hr is suitable, I do know that costs will continue to skyrocket so long as taxation and regulations continue to distort markets. What would they do with more money:

- pay real estate taxes
- pay SSN/medicare taxes
- pay the bloated doctor salaries (AMA might as well be a union)
- pay for all the baloney IP cruft and FDA-approved medicinals
- pay increasing sales tax
- pay for compliance with all regulations
- pay for the public pensions (state taxes, auto fees)
- pay energy taxes

We have malinvestment in this country and more money won't fix it. Why fret over somebody getting 10 disney bucks per hour or 20 disney bucks per hour?

Going back in History on worker benefits, it is true 'benefits' were a way to attract workers, and soon became the norm for contract negotiations. Is it the fault of todays workers that this practice of issuing benefits to private Union workers is now considered 'main stream' and expected, but i fully realize that Union workers and Union Reps. should be flexible, and as far as i'm concerned, especially in the Hostess issue, they have. I maintain this entire debacle is a manufactured tactic to bust the Union. Will it work?.....time will tell. One thing is sure, someone or somebody will be making lots of money off this BS. Sad.

 

[angelatc]

hmmm....Union violence today is more of a myth than fact. Union violence today if it does occur,is limited to petty vandalism like a flat tire. When was the last time anyone was killed from Union violence?...history of Union violence was often times perpetrated by Company goons busting heads, and shootings of picket line workers at the behest of company owners so they could keep paying slave wages, and not have to improve working conditions.

http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2011/09/union_violence_of_little_interest_to_media.html

http://blog.heritage.org/2011/09/08/in-labor-dispute-500-union-members-storm-port-take-six-hostages/

Slave wages? Stop that.

 

[Anti Federalist]

hmmm....Union violence today is more of a myth than fact. Union violence today if it does occur,is limited to petty vandalism like a flat tire. When was the last time anyone was killed from Union violence?...history of Union violence was often times perpetrated by Company goons busting heads, and shootings of picket line workers at the behest of company owners so they could keep paying slave wages, and not have to improve working conditions.

This is true. I have a very close friend and ex-shipmate who lived through the "company goon" terrorism and murders, while growing up in hard scrabble West Virginia.

At the same time, back in the late 80's, my tug was shot at, and Molotov cocktails tossed off bridges onto red flag barges carrying gasoline by union thugs in and around NYC.

I've worked union, and didn't care for it at all.

At the same time, I'm doing all I can to organize mariners into some sort of "professional association", for the purposes of pushing back against some of these outlandish regulations, in addition to providing support for men to stand up to the "bosses" and prevent another Deepwater Horizon disaster. Especially when the consequences of not doing your job properly may result in criminal charges. (Maybe if some of those charged had bothered to read RPFs, they would have know to STFU when talking to the feds).

While the hard headedness of the Bakers Union certainly appears to be a factor here, there is more at work than just "greedy unions".

 

[AGRP]

I don't know about unions much, but didnt hostess have every right to reject the deals that led up to this?

 

[Elwar]

Why do companies in those states not just move their manufacturing plants to right to work states?

There are plenty of people here in Florida who would work on making twinkies.