Unions Kill The Twinkie

[Confederate]

Once again, the OWNERS spent 40 million on one plant in Tacoma that couldn't work, High Tech, high speed. Many many many breakdowns that engineers couldn't keep up with. Losing accounts like COSTCO led to the closing, not fucking pensions or wages.

There were also several other of these plants built across the country. Same result.

So the owners are evil for spending millions of their own money trying to modernize a plant?

 

[Confederate]

please....quit with the mis-guided opinion not based in facts. I was there...you ever work in a high speed production Bakery?...if you had you wouldn't be saying what you said.

Don't need to work in a bakery to know unions are parasites that slowly kill every industry in America.

 

[jbauer]

the site showing the most recent cuts is down.

I have good friends in the Union. Biz Reps. I could call them, but i'm afraid they might be to busy now to field my questions, but i do have concerns now with my Bakers Pension. I'm expecting a cut in mine soon because of this.

Ya know, i worked my fucking ass off in this biz, and managed to continue on after the Wonderbread plant in Tacoma closed (Lakewood) by finishing up at Franz Bakery. Same Union. Luckily there pension plan is better than most bakery's, and it was like walking through fire to get there. I may call my buddy on my concerns in a few days. Hell, maybe i'll go to the Seattle Hostess plant and find a Rep. there to talk to. On the news i'm seeing many people on the picket line that i worked with for years at Wonderbread. Glad to see some of them found jobs after Tacoma closed. Now they have this BS to deal with. Hard working people getting fucked by owners....i'm pissed.

Be pissed. Welcome to America. The land of the take take take. Everyone has had stuff taken from them. I don't know enough about the bakery industry to know but you used $20/hr as a number that your union was after. Does this take into account money paid for pensions, health, disability, vacation time, over-time, holiday etc? What are other bakeries paying their workers? Contracts are contracts until one goes under. You guys aren't the first to lose and wont be the last. This is America today unfortunatley.

 

[AuH20]

So the owners are evil for spending millions of their own money trying to modernize a plant?

They were trying to modernize the plant to escape the hindrance of employee legacy costs. Machines don't call in sick or claim disability. That's the dirty little secret. They probably wanted to create a temporary resurgence in perceived profitability and then sell to the next sucker.

 

[jbauer]

Once again, the OWNERS spent 40 million on one plant in Tacoma that couldn't work, High Tech, high speed. Many many many breakdowns that engineers couldn't keep up with. Losing accounts like COSTCO led to the closing, not fucking pensions or wages.

There were also several other of these plants built across the country. Same result.

What was the labor cost of these plants? People are saying 1800 employees? Whats the average pay? I've seen 2 numbers used. $20/hr and 1800 employees. That at a 40hr week puts the cost at $74M/year in employee cost not counting all the other stuff. To know if the union or the managment were to blame you'd have to compare it to your peers. You pay, their costs, their income, profit margins etc. You said they put in high speed lines? What if mangment did that to cut on employee cost trying to save something they couldn't be expected to save?

 

[Acala]

yeah...there called CONTRACTS. Apparently some Ron Paul supporters in here don't like them.

Well, UNION contracts are a different animal because they are negotiated under a certain amount of coercion from Federal laws that give protection to collective bargaining. Also, there is what Mises called the gun under the table - the unspoken threat of union violence. And that is absolutely an issue with some unions, the Teamsters in particular.

 

[JK/SEA]

But why were they making such an aggressive push for high tech automation and expansion??? Think for a second. It sounds to me like this new investment group did not claculate the hard math on the structural deficencies (mainly employee legacy costs) of Hostess and instead tried to circumvent these obstacles through untried tech enhancements and factory expansion.

why?...GREED. The older plants with older 1,000 pound dough mixers were kicking ass before this idea of 'going bigger and faster' came about. I'm not the owner of Interstate Brands, but i'm guessing going high Tech. was a strategy to kill off Bakeries like Oroweat and Franz. Too much too fast...i remember seeing that fat fuck, Larry Street who started this idea walking around like he was going to have a heart attack because of all the breakdowns, the mountains of burned product, the huge pile of 'growing dough in the parking lot, the smoke, yelling, people quitting...yeah...fun times. I really really tried to get shit running. It was unreal actually, and this was just ONE plant. Now, years later everyone wants to come down on the Unions like its all their fault. Sick fucking mentality. These are hard working decent people getting a good living wage...now this. Thank God there are still good bakery's around, with smarter people at the helm like Franz and Oroweat. All companies i've worked for btw.

 

[Lucille]

Hostess was losing money. Contrary to popular leftist belief, companies do not exist to "create jobs." They exist to make a profit.

"If profit is denounced it must be assumed that running at a loss is admirable."
--Isabel Paterson

"Men enslave themselves, forging the chains link by link, usually by demanding protection as a group. When business men ask for government credit, they surrender control of their business. When labor asks for enforced "collective bargaining" it has yielded its own freedom. When racial groups are recognized in law, they can be discriminated against by law."
--Isabel Paterson

 

[JK/SEA]

Well, UNION contracts are a different animal because they are negotiated under a certain amount of coercion from Federal laws that give protection to collective bargaining. Also, there is what Mises called the gun under the table - the unspoken threat of union violence. And that is absolutely an issue with some unions, the Teamsters in particular.

I've sat in on contract negotiations as a Shop Steward. I guarantee no guns or clubs were involved. Just a lot of sick jokes...lol...

Actually negotiators for the companies played some serious hard ball...very eye opening.

 

[Confederate]

They were trying to modernize the plant to escape the hindrance of employee legacy costs. Machines don't call in sick or claim disability. That's the dirty little secret. They probably wanted to create a temporary resurgence in perceived profitability and then sell to the next sucker.

That's capitalism. Don't like it move...well no need to move, just wait another 4 years and you won't have to worry about it. Companies exist to make a profit for their owners, not to give jobs to unions.

 

[JK/SEA]

Hostess was losing money. Contrary to popular leftist belief, companies do not exist to "create jobs." They exist to make a profit.

"If profit is denounced it must be assumed that running at a loss is admirable."
--Isabel Paterson

"Men enslave themselves, forging the chains link by link, usually by demanding protection as a group. When business men ask for government credit, they surrender control of their business. When labor asks for enforced "collective bargaining" it has yielded its own freedom. When racial groups are recognized in law, they can be discriminated against by law."
--Isabel Paterson

Hostess will be back. Wages will be at or near 10 bucks...no bennies. So be it.

 

[Confederate]

Hostess will be back. Wages will be at or near 10 bucks...no bennies. So be it.

You can thank the union for that. They had a chance to keep their benefits and higher wages, but shat on that chance. They can now take 10 bucks an hour and no benefits.

Sure beats being unemployed.

 

[RonPaulFanInGA]

Hostess will be back. Wages will be at or near 10 bucks...no bennies. So be it.

Or the union could have simply taken the 8% pay cut and not gone on strike, as the Teamsters themselves suggested.

 

[AuH20]

I have no problems with Unions freely associating and coming together for their best interests. But from what I understand many of these industries during the boom times surrendered far too many costly long-term benefits to their employees, creating a exponiental nightmare on their books as market share shrunk and health care prices rose. So from that point, you have management chasing rainbows and unicorns with very risky moves (expansion, untried high tech advancements) to make up for those built-in structural losses instead of confronting the obvious elephant in the room. They should have hammered out long term viability plans with the union heads years ago.

 

[Acala]

I've sat in on contract negotiations as a Shop Steward. I guarantee no guns or clubs were involved. Just a lot of sick jokes...lol...

Actually negotiators for the companies played some serious hard ball...very eye opening.

Oh please. If you are suggesting that violence against individuals and private property is not a real threat with many unions, you are being as blind to the faults of your side as are the blind supporters of corporate management. Union violence is historical fact. I have personally been a law clerk in trials involving union violence. Some unions are essentially organized criminal rackets.

 

[RockEnds]

I'm sorry people lost their jobs, but I won't miss the company. I'm not sure what all they make, but if it's just those nasty tasting treats and that awful white bread, I haven't purchased any of their products for several decades.

 

[Brian4Liberty]

In the event of a bankruptcy, given all the assets Hostess owned, the lenders would still walk away with millions.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2012-11-16/hostess-liquidation-curious-cast-characters-twinkie-tumbles

And the money lenders still make a profit...

 

[Cabal]

At least they have Thanksgiving off now.

 

[whoisjohngalt]

Jk if the owners are as bad as you say, I would have been trying to find a new job immediately. Not to rub salt in a wound but it sounds like you saw the writing on the wall...

 

[Brian4Liberty]

Hostess will be back. Wages will be at or near 10 bucks...no bennies. So be it.

As a subsidiary of Bimbo?