Unions Kill The Twinkie

With a company as big as Interstate it wasn't "just" the union or "just" management that screwed the pooch..

Just like with any business failure all that needs done is to follow the money to see where the trouble lies...

Who knows we could have Obama Twinkies by this time next week..:eek:


[edit]

Just had to throw in Obama Wonder Bread too..:cool:
 
With a company as big as Interstate it wasn't "just" the union or "just" management that screwed the pooch..

Just like with any business failure all that needs done is to follow the money to see where the trouble lies...

Who knows we could have Obama Twinkies by this time next week..:eek:


[edit]

Just had to throw in Obama Wonder Bread too..:cool:

No, it's a white bread.
 
Old story indeed. Drive through Peoria, Illinios or Detroit, Michigan for proof with your own eyes. Unions destroyed the towns.
I can't say it's the union's fault entirely, but it's a major factor round here for sure. Sad thing is, even after all that's happened, multi-generational union families still support them wholeheartedly. It's strange to say the least.
 
dINg DonG, REALITY CALLING!
DOES ANYONE WANT 18,500 JOBBERS?
 
Sure, but apparently part of the mismanagement involved unfunded pensions, which are union. No company ever got in trouble over an unfunded 401(k). But according to the chart, Hostess had about 50 401(k) plans. That's unreal.

There are 3 main unions in these high speed production plants. Bakers, Teamsters (truck drivers) and Operating Engineers. I'm not surprised the Teamsters are bitchin'. They have the most lucrative contracts. Better pay, better pensions, better medical. Curious they don't 'volunteer' cuts. The web site showing the Bakers fact sheet is down, but when i looked yesterday it showed some cuts the Bakers have already given, but apparently the media doesn't want to talk about that. Go figure

The site is 'BCTGM fact sheet' for those interested, but like i said its down right now.
 
There are 3 main unions in these high speed production plants. Bakers, Teamsters (truck drivers) and Operating Engineers. I'm not surprised the Teamsters are bitchin'. They have the most lucrative contracts. Better pay, better pensions, better medical. Curious they don't 'volunteer' cuts. The web site showing the Bakers fact sheet is down, but when i looked yesterday it showed some cuts the Bakers have already given, but apparently the media doesn't want to talk about that. Go figure

The site is 'BCTGM fact sheet' for those interested, but like i said its down right now.

The teamsters took the same cuts that everybody else did. You think they should give up more, so the Bakers wouldn't have to give up anything?
 
The teamsters took the same cuts that everybody else did. You think they should give up more, so the Bakers wouldn't have to give up anything?

point is, Bakers have 'given' up cuts already. The conventional wisdom here seems to point to that the Bakers haven't. Which is not true.
 
I can't say it's the union's fault entirely, but it's a major factor round here for sure. Sad thing is, even after all that's happened, multi-generational union families still support them wholeheartedly. It's strange to say the least.

Just as multi-generational welfare families support welfare.

Unions were a benefit once upon a time, but have devolved.
Fair wages and safe work environments are one thing. Excessive pay and demands, and inability to fire dead weight,, and a LOT of Governmental regulation have killed a lot of manufacturing.

There is a balance. but I believe the Unions are on the wrong end of a wide swing.
 
point is, Bakers have 'given' up cuts already. The conventional wisdom here seems to point to that the Bakers haven't. Which is not true.

Recently? I've been looking, and all i see are some concessions they made in 2004.
 
With a company as big as Interstate it wasn't "just" the union or "just" management that screwed the pooch..

Just like with any business failure all that needs done is to follow the money to see where the trouble lies...

Who knows we could have Obama Twinkies by this time next week..:eek:


[edit]

Just had to throw in Obama Wonder Bread too..:cool:

sure, follow the money. MILLIONS spent on a failed plan. The fault lies squarely with owners. (owner looks around...hey!..we need a fall guy...i know, lets blame Suzy and Johnnie on the Twinkie line for daring to work for 20 bucks an hr.....)
 
It's true. I understand that you're passionate about this, but even the Teamsters agreed to the terms. The Bakers opted to strike instead.

I don't argue that bad management led them into reorg, but the Bakers Union led them into dissolution. But full disclaimer - I do think that unions are a burden on free markets.

Unions aren't just a burden, they're a parasite that destroy every industry they infect.
 
lets be real. The strategy is/was to break the Union. Trust me, the dogs in mgmt. in a few years will resurrect Wonder/Hostess as non-union, which will guarantee the upper class and stock holders their pound of flesh in the guise of FRN's...and instead of good paying living wages, and benefits there will be zero medical and pension plans that pay perhaps 10 bucks hr. I wouldn't work in a bakery for that. I also operated ovens, and in the summer months i recorded 110 degrees in the area. Exhaust fans were always on high mode to keep it at that temp. Go ahead, TRY and work in a bakery like that for those wages. I'd love to see one of you try. I've seen many people walk off the job because of the conditions and very hard work required. Its not for everybody.

So you're saying the company is doing everything every other company is doing. Cut cost to deliever a product consumers will/can buy. Hostess isn't doing anything EVERY other company is doing. If you haven't seen your income decrease over the past several years you're abnormal.
 
Recently? I've been looking, and all i see are some concessions they made in 2004.

the site showing the most recent cuts is down.

I have good friends in the Union. Biz Reps. I could call them, but i'm afraid they might be to busy now to field my questions, but i do have concerns now with my Bakers Pension. I'm expecting a cut in mine soon because of this.

Ya know, i worked my fucking ass off in this biz, and managed to continue on after the Wonderbread plant in Tacoma closed (Lakewood) by finishing up at Franz Bakery. Same Union. Luckily there pension plan is better than most bakery's, and it was like walking through fire to get there. I may call my buddy on my concerns in a few days. Hell, maybe i'll go to the Seattle Hostess plant and find a Rep. there to talk to. On the news i'm seeing many people on the picket line that i worked with for years at Wonderbread. Glad to see some of them found jobs after Tacoma closed. Now they have this BS to deal with. Hard working people getting fucked by owners....i'm pissed.
 
So you're saying the company is doing everything every other company is doing. Cut cost to deliever a product consumers will/can buy. Hostess isn't doing anything EVERY other company is doing. If you haven't seen your income decrease over the past several years you're abnormal.

Once again, the OWNERS spent 40 million on one plant in Tacoma that couldn't work, High Tech, high speed. Many many many breakdowns that engineers couldn't keep up with. Losing accounts like COSTCO led to the closing, not fucking pensions or wages.

There were also several other of these plants built across the country. Same result.
 
The Bernank's price inflation (they say doesn't exist), the debt, and the unions killed Hostess.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2012-11-16/hostess-liquidation-curious-cast-characters-twinkie-tumbles

Yet while the balance sheet burden was certainly the pension liabilities, what precipitated the liquidation was the income statement, and more accurately, the cash flow statement, or specifically the lack of cash flow.

as the company tried to reinvent itself in 2009 and 2010, external currents were running against it. The Great Recession hurt many consumer brands generally, and the prices of the commodities that Hostess relied on -- corn, sugar, flour -- went up, which is the opposite of what's supposed to happen in a downturn. In addition, the bakery industry underwent more consolidation when Sara Lee sold out to Bimbo.

Those fortuities aggravated Hostess's two root problems -- a highly leveraged capital structure that had little margin of safety, and high labor costs. Neither problem was adequately addressed in the first bankruptcy, and neither existed to the same degree in major competitors like Bimbo and Flowers Food (owner of such brands as Nature's Own and Tastykake). On exiting the first bankruptcy, Hostess's total debt load was nearly $670 million. That was well above what it went into bankruptcy with in the first place -- an unusual circumstance that the company justified on expectations of "growing" into its capital structure.

But the company was dead wrong. Its debt sowed the very seeds of the next bankruptcy. Looking back on the decision to reinvest in Hostess in the first bankruptcy, one of the lenders now says, "If you look in the dictionary at the definition of throwing good money after bad, there should be a picture of Hostess beside it."

By late 2011, Hostess was getting, well, creamed. Its sales last year -- $2.5 billion -- were down about 11% from 2008 and down 28% from 2004. (Twinkies remain the best individual seller -- 323 million of them in the 52-week period ending June 29, give or take a splurt.) Overall, Hostess lost $341 million in fiscal 2011, 2½ times the loss of the prior year -- and by early 2012, primarily because of burgeoning interest obligations, its debt had grown to about $860 million.

As revenue declined, the company continued to burn cash -- in the second half of 2011, the rate was $2 million a week. The liquidity crunch forced Ripplewood in the early spring of 2011 to pump in $40 million more in return for more equity as well as debt that was subordinate to that held by Silver Point and Monarch. In August -- to save a company teetering on the edge of fiscal calamity and forced liquidation -- Silver Point, Monarch, and the group of other lenders put up an additional $30 million to see if a negotiated turnaround was possible.

They turned to the unions and demanded new concessions. But the unions, having three years earlier given up thousands of jobs and millions in benefits, flatly refused.

The company was going to pieces -- again -- and Hostess filed for Chapter 11 protection -- again -- in January of this year. This time, though, the moneymen were no longer on the same page. As the majority equity holder, Ripplewood badly wanted to keep Hostess out of bankruptcy. It pleaded with the lenders to show flexibility, but they were not so inclined. They lenders held superior fiscal hands and had less downside if Hostess failed. In the event of a bankruptcy, given all the assets Hostess owned, the lenders would still walk away with millions.

There is much more to this story, but the ending is well-known to all, and it is not a happy one.

End result: a near total loss for everyone involved, except the secured creditors of course, who will now get pennies on the dollar, or perhaps even par, for their claims when all is said and done.

Sadly, in many ways Hostess is now indicative of that just as insolvent larger corporation, the USA, whose insurmountable balance sheet liabilities will be the eventual catalyst for its collapse, but only once the Income Statement and the Cash Flow sheet join in. For now, the Fed provides the flow needed to avoid the day of reckoning, but everything ends eventually.

In the meantime, what the Hostess story will hopefully teach the always gullible public, is that nothing is ever black or white, and there are numerous shades of gray in every story: even one in which an "evil" PE firm is unable to come to resolution with labor unions, despite the man in charge of it all being a prominent democrat. Because when it comes to money other things such alliances, ideology and certainly politics are always, always, secondary. Sadly, ever more Americans will be forced to learn this lesson the hard way.
 
sure, follow the money. MILLIONS spent on a failed plan. The fault lies squarely with owners. (owner looks around...hey!..we need a fall guy...i know, lets blame Suzy and Johnnie on the Twinkie line for daring to work for 20 bucks an hr.....)

But why were they making such an aggressive push for high tech automation and expansion??? Think for a second. It sounds to me like this new investment group did not claculate the hard math on the structural deficencies (mainly employee legacy costs) of Hostess and instead tried to circumvent these obstacles through untried tech enhancements and factory expansion.
 
Unions aren't just a burden, they're a parasite that destroy every industry they infect.

please....quit with the mis-guided opinion not based in facts. I was there...you ever work in a high speed production Bakery?...if you had you wouldn't be saying what you said.
 
lets be real.

Good. Close the doors. Fire everybody.

Start a new company and hire new folks. If people need work,, they will work.
If the work is "too hard" or the pay is "too low" they can quit. Go work for someone else. or negotiate individually.
If the person truly is valuable they will reach an agreement. if not they can hit the road.

I worked one Union job in my lifetime. I have no use for them.
 
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