Trump vs. DeSantis

[Swordsmyth]

DS's Deputy Press Secretary Jeremy Redfern:

 

[Anti Federalist]

https://twitter.com/petestrzok/status/1639366308784472064

 

[jmdrake]

That's not accurate about Gorsuch, he is definitely better than Roberts and is way better than anyone the RINOs would pick.
He's been the swing vote in a number of important rulings in our favor and is pushing to rein in the bureaucracy.
Nice try at changing the subject from the gun rulings that are ending gun control for good though.

Roberts votes on gun control have been as good as Gorsuch and Roberts was NOT a Trump appointee. There is no reason to believe that DeSantis would nominate someone bad on gun control. Nice try at a red herring though.

 

[jmdrake]

Trump didn't pick. He was told who to choose. The same person will pick Supreme Court nominees under a GOP Administration no matter who is President. Leonard Leo of Opus Dei and The Federalist Society.



IIRC, it’s Kavanaugh who votes a lot with Roberts.

It’s all a moot point. The same people will choose Supreme Court nominees whether it’s Don, Ron or some other Republican.

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?557552-Why-did-Trump-choose-Brett-Kavanaugh-for-SCOTUS

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Brian4Liberty again.

 

[Anti Federalist]

Roberts votes on gun control have been as good as Gorsuch and Roberts was NOT a Trump appointee. There is no reason to believe that DeSantis would nominate someone bad on gun control. Nice try at a red herring though.

I would certainly like to see some other choices, but nobody will touch it now unless you have some ulterior motive, the job is toxic cesspit...it's like Bob Lee Swagger in "Shooter"..."this stuff is plutonium, it kills anybody who touches it".

Mike Rowe 2024

 

[jmdrake]

I would certainly like to see some other choices, but nobody will touch it now unless you have some ulterior motive, the job is toxic cesspit...it's like Bob Lee Swagger in "Shooter"..."this stuff is plutonium, it kills anybody who touches it".

Mike Rowe 2024

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Anti Federalist again.

 

[Working Poor]

I would like to see Ron debate Trump. I think Ron could humble his ass.

 

[Swordsmyth]

Roberts votes on gun control have been as good as Gorsuch and Roberts was NOT a Trump appointee. There is no reason to believe that DeSantis would nominate someone bad on gun control. Nice try at a red herring though.

There is plenty of reason to believe his picks would be worse on many subjects.
The establishment wants the preTrump status quo of a left leaning court with multiple "centrist" swing voters and DS is their man.
DS has also had a very mediocre record on the 2ndA, including just recently letting the long delayed Constitutional Carry Bill be stripped of the provision to allow open carry.

 

[Swordsmyth]

Roberts votes on gun control have been as good as Gorsuch and Roberts was NOT a Trump appointee. There is no reason to believe that DeSantis would nominate someone bad on gun control. Nice try at a red herring though.

Roberts is also responsible for watering down many good rulings that would have gone our way without him.

 

[jmdrake]

There is plenty of reason to believe his picks would be worse on many subjects.
The establishment wants the preTrump status quo of a left leaning court with multiple "centrist" swing voters and DS is their man.
DS has also had a very mediocre record on the 2ndA, including just recently letting the long delayed Constitutional Carry Bill be stripped of the provision to allow open carry.

Desantis has never said he was for an assault weapons ban. Trump said that TWICE! Desantis never said he was for red flag laws. The first time I ever heard of red flag laws was from TRUMP. Nobody before Trump to my knowledge ever banned a gun accessory by executive order. Trump did and now Biden followed his example. And I don't want to hear your STUPID "well it's got struck down" excuse! It shouldn't have had to be struct down! And now gun owners are seriously hampered waiting for Biden's gun stock ban to be struct down, something Biden might not even have thought of if Trump hadn't set the precedent. Seriously the 2A is Trump's weakest area.

 

[acptulsa]

Experts that have admitted to lying to him.

Experts that 99% of this forum knew at the time were lying. Does that make us more stable than your VSG, smarter, or just less crooked?

You can make excuses until Doomsday. But you can't do a thing about this fact: This time he has a voting record to run on, and it's sad!

 

[Occam's Banana]

Desantis has never said he was for an assault weapons ban. Trump said that TWICE! Desantis never said he was for red flag laws. The first time I ever heard of red flag laws was from TRUMP. Nobody before Trump to my knowledge ever banned a gun accessory by executive order. Trump did and now Biden followed his example. And I don't want to hear your STUPID "well it's got struck down" excuse! It shouldn't have had to be struct down! And now gun owners are seriously hampered waiting for Biden's gun stock ban to be struct down, something Biden might not even have thought of if Trump hadn't set the precedent. Seriously the 2A is Trump's weakest area.

Even without Trump paving the way, Biden might well have thought of using EOs to enact gun control - or rather, his handlers might have thought of it (I suspect that Biden himself doesn't really think much of anything anymore, except maybe things like "what's for breakfast today?" - or "where's my ten percent?"). Someone was bound to try it sooner or later - and despite all the fan fiction, it is not at all to Trump's credit that he was the one to do so.

Unfortunately, while the courts did strike down Trump's half-assed gun-grabbery, they did not do so on the basis that POTUS has no authority to enact gun control via executive order end-runs around Congress or the Constitution - and so we're going to see Biden, et al. try to slip through the door that Trump opened for them. Eventually, one of them is apt to succeed.

 

[jmdrake]

Even without Trump paving the way, Biden might well have thought of using EOs to enact gun control - or rather, his handlers might have thought of it (I suspect that Biden himself doesn't really think much of anything anymore, except maybe things like "what's for breakfast today?" - or "where's my ten percent?"). Someone was bound to try it sooner or later - and despite all the fan fiction, it is not at all to Trump's credit that he was the one to do so.

Unfortunately, while the courts did strike down Trump's half-assed gun-grabbery, they did not do so on the basis that POTUS has no authority to enact gun control via executive order end-runs around Congress or the Constitution - and so we're going to see Biden, et al. try to slip through the door that Trump opened for them. Eventually, one of them is apt to succeed.

Thanks for your input. That prompted me to look this up.

https://www.npr.org/2023/01/07/1147698112/bump-stocks-ban-struck-down-court

The ban was instituted after a gunman perched in a high-rise hotel using bump stock-equipped weapons massacred dozens of people in Las Vegas in 2017. Gun rights advocates have challenged it in multiple courts. The 13-3 ruling at the 5th U.S. Circuit Court of appeals is the latest on the issue, which is likely to be decided at the Supreme Court.

The decision doesn't have an immediate effect on the ban though because the case now moves back to the lower court to decide how to proceed.

Las Vegas mass shooting survivors turn to each other to find strength through tragedy
NATIONAL
Las Vegas mass shooting survivors turn to each other to find strength through tragedy
The case was somewhat unique because the issue involves not the Second Amendment but the interpretation of federal statutes. Opponents of the ban argued that bump stocks do not fall under the definition of illegal machine guns in federal law. The U.S. Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives says they do, a position now being defended by the Biden administration.

"A plain reading of the statutory language, paired with close consideration of the mechanics of a semi-automatic firearm, reveals that a bump stock is excluded from the technical definition of 'machinegun' set forth in the Gun Control Act and National Firearms Act," Judge Jennifer Walker Elrod wrote in the lead majority opinion.

The court found that the definition of a machinegun — which is set out in two different federal statutes — "does not apply to bump stocks."

The ban had survived challenges at the Cincinnati-based 6th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals; the Denver-based 10th Circuit; and the federal circuit court in Washington. A panel of three judges at the 5th Circuit also issued a ruling in favor of the ban, upholding a lower court decision by a Texas federal judge. But the full New Orleans-based court voted to reconsider the case. Arguments were heard Sept. 13.
​

 

[Occam's Banana]

Thanks for your input. That prompted me to look this up.

https://www.npr.org/2023/01/07/1147698112/bump-stocks-ban-struck-down-court

The ban was instituted after a gunman perched in a high-rise hotel using bump stock-equipped weapons massacred dozens of people in Las Vegas in 2017. Gun rights advocates have challenged it in multiple courts. The 13-3 ruling at the 5th U.S. Circuit Court of appeals is the latest on the issue, which is likely to be decided at the Supreme Court.

The decision doesn't have an immediate effect on the ban though because the case now moves back to the lower court to decide how to proceed.

Las Vegas mass shooting survivors turn to each other to find strength through tragedy
NATIONAL
Las Vegas mass shooting survivors turn to each other to find strength through tragedy
The case was somewhat unique because the issue involves not the Second Amendment but the interpretation of federal statutes. Opponents of the ban argued that bump stocks do not fall under the definition of illegal machine guns in federal law. The U.S. Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives says they do, a position now being defended by the Biden administration.

"A plain reading of the statutory language, paired with close consideration of the mechanics of a semi-automatic firearm, reveals that a bump stock is excluded from the technical definition of 'machinegun' set forth in the Gun Control Act and National Firearms Act," Judge Jennifer Walker Elrod wrote in the lead majority opinion.

The court found that the definition of a machinegun — which is set out in two different federal statutes — "does not apply to bump stocks."

The ban had survived challenges at the Cincinnati-based 6th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals; the Denver-based 10th Circuit; and the federal circuit court in Washington. A panel of three judges at the 5th Circuit also issued a ruling in favor of the ban, upholding a lower court decision by a Texas federal judge. But the full New Orleans-based court voted to reconsider the case. Arguments were heard Sept. 13.
​

Just exactly so.:

And note that the court based it's decision on the legal definition of "machine gun."

Not on 2A grounds. Not on grounds of executive overreach. Just on grounds of a legalistic definition.

So all the gun grabbers (half-assed or full-assed) have to do to pass muster under this decision is change the legal definition of "machine gun."

How is that supposed to be any kind of significant or substantive win? Or even just a durable or lasting one?

 

[Anti-Neocon]

"You only have 2 choices. Pick."

This poll has been brought to you by CNN.

 

[Swordsmyth]

Desantis has never said he was for an assault weapons ban. Trump said that TWICE! Desantis never said he was for red flag laws. The first time I ever heard of red flag laws was from TRUMP. Nobody before Trump to my knowledge ever banned a gun accessory by executive order. Trump did and now Biden followed his example. And I don't want to hear your STUPID "well it's got struck down" excuse! It shouldn't have had to be struct down! And now gun owners are seriously hampered waiting for Biden's gun stock ban to be struct down, something Biden might not even have thought of if Trump hadn't set the precedent. Seriously the 2A is Trump's weakest area.

DS signed a red flag law among many other problematic things.
The 2A rulings that are striking down decades old gun control laws all over the country would not be happening without Trump's SCOTUS picks.
2ndA may well be one of Trump's weakest points, but he was still an overall positive for us about it.

 

[Swordsmyth]

 

[Swordsmyth]

Just exactly so.:

Executive overreach may not be the basis of the rulings yet but it is specifically being targeted by more Justices now thanks to Trump.
And the big 2A ruling they gave us subjected all gun laws to historical precedent which might not be as "shall not be infringed" as we want but it is a step in the right direction that is undoing many modern gun laws.

 

[devil21]

The original Don vs Ron thread, with way more posts and views, before OP tried to co-opt and data-mine it:

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?560819-Trump-versus-DeSantis

 

[devil21]

That video really should have ended with both getting hit by a bus at the same time.

bump