Trump + NRA to discuss banning the 2A for those on the "list".

[misterx]

What evidence do you have to support that?! That's just nonsense.

Empty, religious platitudes aside, there are many ways in which he is better that have been spelled out a hundred times on this forum. Unless you are really crazy enough to believe that the devil sent Hillary and Trump to lead us into his arms.

 

[openfire]

From the article:

"Our position is no guns for terrorists—period," the association wrote. "Due process & right to self-defense for law-abiding Americans."

NRA Institute for Legislative Action executive director Chris W. Cox reiterated as much in a statement released by the association, expressing willingness to meet with Trump but emphasizing that its position remains unchanged.

“The NRA believes that terrorists should not be allowed to purchase or possess firearms, period. Anyone on a terror watchlist who tries to buy a gun should be thoroughly investigated by the FBI and the sale delayed while the investigation is ongoing,” Cox said in the statement.

“If an investigation uncovers evidence of terrorist activity or involvement, the government should be allowed to immediately go to court, block the sale, and arrest the terrorist,” he continued. “At the same time, due process protections should be put in place that allow law-abiding Americans who are wrongly put on a watchlist to be removed.”

The NRA in November maintained that it “does not want terrorists or dangerous people to have firearms,” arguing that “any suggestion otherwise is offensive and wrong.”

“The NRA’s only objective is to ensure that Americans who are wrongly on the list are afforded their constitutional right to due process,” Jennifer Baker, the NRA-ILA’s public affairs director, said in a statement at the time. “It is appalling that anti-gun politicians are exploiting the Paris terrorist attacks to push their gun-control agenda and distract from President Obama’s failed foreign policy.”

So, if Trump's position is the same as the NRA's, then...

 

[acptulsa]

Empty, religious platitudes aside, there are many ways in which he is better that have been spelled out a hundred times on this forum. Unless you are really crazy enough to believe that the devil sent Hillary and Trump to lead us into his arms.

The good captain is not the only one in all the world who has read C.S. Lewis.

The tactic is well-known and valid, and has been used by the two major parties since before either of us was born. Trying to discredit it by attempting to say it has no validity outside of religion is goofy.

So, if Trump's position is the same as the NRA's, then...

...it doesn't reflect well on Trump, at least among those who actually pay attention to what the NRA does.

Gun Owners of America carries some actually credibility.

 

[Anti Federalist]

Fuck a bunch of Alex Jones, I've had just about enough of him lately.

And I don't forgive them.

This is a straight up betrayal of the 2nd amendment and its supporters by Donald Trump. And note, conspiracy theorist, former outspoken defender of the 2nd amendment and Trump sycophant Alex Jones will NOT cover this. Or if he does he will make excuses for it.

To put this in perspective, the first time I heard this proposal it was Barack Obama henchman Rahm Emanuel!

Please see:



And note, this video was in the Alex Jones film "The Obama Deception." Is he going to release a film called "The Trump Deception?" If so, will he star in his own film?

Oh yeah. And to all of the people here who are Donald Trump supporters who viciously attacking me for pointing out that Donald Trump couldn't be trusted because, among other things, back in 2000 Mr. Trump called for an assault weapons ban.....well I forgive you. Yes that includes you LibertyEagle. I forgive you. You don't even have to admit you were wrong.

And yes. We are totally screwed now because as untrustworthy as Trump is on gun control (and other things), Hillary Clinton can be trusted to be worse. I live in a state where the GOP could run Beavis and Butthead and still win so I can vote 3rd party (Gary Johnson at this point) with good conscience. But some of y'all were going hardcore Trump when there were other options such as Ted Cruz. Alex Jones was going hardcore Trump when Rand Paul was still in the race. I tell you what. Ted Cruz wouldn't be folding on gun control. "Oh but he flip flopped on the TPP." So freaking what? He ultimately voted against it and if we lose our gun rights who gives a crap about bad trade deals?

At this point I honestly don't care who wins in November. We are screwed. And some of the people on this forum helped screwed us. Again, you're forgiven. We all make mistakes. Trump is unwilling to ever admit to his mistakes. The question is are his supporters willing to admit their mistakes? And are they willing now to tell Mr. Trump in no uncertain terms at ever rally they attend "We REJECT your proposal to let gun rights be taken away without due process just because someone is suspected of possibly being a terrorist especially as there is no due process associated with the no fly list."

Seriously Trump supporters. Are you going to stand with us against this HORRIBLE idea being put forward by your dear leader? Because only you can stop him at this point. Call into Alex Jones. Call into Michael Savage. Call into any talk show host that has sold out to Donald Trump and say "Listen. If you don't want to be totally marginalized from here on out, come out HARD against this proposal by Donald Trump! I support Trump, but I reject gun control."

And again Trump supporters, you are forgiven.

 

[jmdrake]

Empty, religious platitudes aside, there are many ways in which he is better that have been spelled out a hundred times on this forum. Unless you are really crazy enough to believe that the devil sent Hillary and Trump to lead us into his arms.

Bill Clinton encouraged both Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton to run for president. Bill Clinton = Satan.

 

[William Tell]

From the article:



So, if Trump's position is the same as the NRA's, then...

Trump and the NRA are both trying to destroy the 2nd amendment, yes.

 

[openfire]

Trump and the NRA are both trying to destroy the 2nd amendment, yes.

Fair enough. I can respect that position. But I must say, that's the first time I've heard someone accuse the NRA of trying to destroy the 2nd.

 

[jmdrake]

From the article:



So, if Trump's position is the same as the NRA's, then...

Here's what you missed from your own quote.

“The NRA believes that terrorists should not be allowed to purchase or possess firearms, period. Anyone on a terror watchlist who tries to buy a gun should be thoroughly investigated by the FBI and the sale delayed while the investigation is ongoing,” Cox said in the statement.

“If an investigation uncovers evidence of terrorist activity or involvement, the government should be allowed to immediately go to court, block the sale, and arrest the terrorist,” he continued. “At the same time, due process protections should be put in place that allow law-abiding Americans who are wrongly put on a watchlist to be removed.”

So Trump's position, which is equivalent to Rahm Emmanuel's position, is for a gun ban for anyone on the terror watch list. The NRA's position is for a delay of the sale while the government investigates to see if the person has actually committed a crime. If the person has committed a crime, then prosecute him. If he's convicted, and his conviction is a felony, then he's lost his right to bear arms through due process. Trump said nothing about due process or a "delay" in his tweet. Of course if enough people put pressure on him he will "qualify" his statement to be more in line with the NRA (not that I actually trust the NRA to protect gun rights either) and that is what I'm hoping for. We must keep the pressure on this charlatan. He is the GOP nominee. The advantage over Hillary, and it's a small advantage, is that he actually needs people who support the 2nd amendment to vote for him. Thus he might be persuaded to do the right thing. But if people like you keep insisting on making excuses for him, the pressure needed for him to do the right thing will dissipate. Quit making excuses for the man. Hold his feet to the fire. That's our only hope.

 

[jmdrake]

$#@! a bunch of Alex Jones, I've had just about enough of him lately.

I lost what remaining respect I had for Alex Jones when he came out hard core for Trump when Rand Paul was still in the race. It was disgusting.

And I don't forgive them.

Well I've been reading thinking a lot about forgiveness lately in general and so I'm just in one of those moods.

 

[William Tell]

Fair enough. I can respect that position. But I must say, that's the first time I've heard someone accuse the NRA of trying to destroy the 2nd.

Lol nice edit. Of course I don't support a list like Hillary and Trump. This is RonPaulforums. Not the Democrat underground. Shall not be infringed.

 

[openfire]

Only for people who cannot read. Here's what you missed from your own quote.

“The NRA believes that terrorists should not be allowed to purchase or possess firearms, period. Anyone on a terror watchlist who tries to buy a gun should be thoroughly investigated by the FBI and the sale delayed while the investigation is ongoing,” Cox said in the statement.

“If an investigation uncovers evidence of terrorist activity or involvement, the government should be allowed to immediately go to court, block the sale, and arrest the terrorist,” he continued. “At the same time, due process protections should be put in place that allow law-abiding Americans who are wrongly put on a watchlist to be removed.”

So Trump's position, which is equivalent to Rahm Emmanuel's position, is for a gun ban for anyone on the terror watch list. The NRA's position is for a delay of the sale while the government investigates to see if the person has actually committed a crime. If the person has committed a crime, then prosecute him. If he's convicted, and his conviction is a felony, then he's lost his right to bear arms through due process. Trump said nothing about due process or a "delay" in his tweet. Of course if enough people put pressure on him he will "qualify" his statement to be more in line with the NRA (not that I actually trust the NRA to protect gun rights either) and that is what I'm hoping for. We must keep the pressure on this charlatan. He is the GOP nominee. The advantage over Hillary, and it's a small advantage, is that he actually needs people who support the 2nd amendment to vote for him. Thus he might be persuaded to do the right thing. But if people like you keep insisting on making excuses for him, the pressure needed for him to do the right thing will dissipate. Quit making excuses for the man. Hold his feet to the fire. That's our only hope.

You misunderstood me. I said IF Trump's position is the same as the NRA's, as in, IF after Trump meets with the NRA, he adopts their position, then would people be OK with that?

 

[jmdrake]

What evidence do you have to support that?! That's just nonsense.

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to CaptUSA again.

 

[wizardwatson]

“The NRA believes that terrorists should not be allowed to purchase or possess firearms, period. Anyone on a terror watchlist who tries to buy a gun should be thoroughly investigated by the FBI and the sale delayed while the investigation is ongoing,” Cox said in the statement.

NRA is talking out of both sides of their mouth. You can't have due process, and say that the FBI should "delay" while investigation is ongoing. That's the same thing as taking the rights away.

What do you think the reasoning was for the japanese internment camps? We just need to keep them there until we know they aren't a threat.

Everybody has lost their damned minds.

You don't lose your rights until you are CONVICTED. You only get somewhat inconvenienced (most of the time) when you are officially CHARGED (bail, arrest, etc.). Now the NRA wants anyone suspicious to be "delayed" as long as investigation in ongoing? And what's the standard for being "under investigation".

Let me guess, another list.

 

[jmdrake]

You misunderstood me. I said IF Trump's position is the same as the NRA's, as in, IF after Trump meets with the NRA, he adopts their position, then would people be OK with that?

Oh. My bad. While I don't trust the NRA I would be okay with their position as stated. The only clarification I would add is that the "investigation delay" should not be indefinite. I don't know how long. But if your right to own a gun is delayed by an "investigation" that goes on for a year without charges ever being brought against you than your 2nd amendment rights have been violated in my book. Seriously though, why does this even need a new proposal? The Orlando shooter was "investigated" and then taken off the terrorist watch list. Even under Rahm Emmanuel's proposal he would have been able to buy a gun.

 

[jmdrake]

NRA is talking out of both sides of their mouth. You can't have due process, and say that the FBI should "delay" while investigation is ongoing. That's the same thing as taking the rights away.

What do you think the reasoning was for the japanese internment camps? We just need to keep them there until we know they aren't a threat.

Everybody has lost their damned minds.

You don't lose your rights until you are CONVICTED. You only get somewhat inconvenienced (most of the time) when you are officially CHARGED (bail, arrest, etc.). Now the NRA wants anyone suspicious to be "delayed" as long as investigation in ongoing? And what's the standard for being "under investigation".

Let me guess, another list.

Well under current law you can lose your gun rights just because your ex-wife or ex-girlfriend thinks you're some kind of "threat" and pushes for an order of protection. Yes that does require a due process hearing, but the bar for that is quite low. But yes, even the NRA proposal is troubling. How long can this "investigation" go on? Of course I've maintained all along that being told you can't fly just because somebody has put you on some "list" without due process is a violation of a fundamental right as well. The constitution guarantees freedom of assembly. How can I "peaceably assemble" in Hawaii if I'm not allowed to fly? Yeah I can take a boat, but how long is that going to take?

 

[openfire]

Oh. My bad. While I don't trust the NRA I would be okay with their position as stated. The only clarification I would add is that the "investigation delay" should not be indefinite. I don't know how long. But if your right to own a gun is delayed by an "investigation" that goes on for a year without charges ever being brought against you than your 2nd amendment rights have been violated in my book.

Agreed.

 

[jmdrake]

Damn! I learn something new everyday. So Trump donated thousands to Rahm Emmanuel as late as 2010 and yet we're supposed to believe he's some kind of anti-establishment hero?

 

[wizardwatson]

Well under current law you can lose your gun rights just because your ex-wife or ex-girlfriend thinks you're some kind of "threat" and pushes for an order of protection. Yes that does require a due process hearing, but the bar for that is quite low.

Well, at least that's public and you have an accountable judge, etc.

Are these FBI lists going to be public? Who is accountable? The corporate entity known as the federal government? This is a dangerous precedent, and kind of scary coming from NRA people.

Questions are rhetorical, but we are rapidly accelerating into completely normalizing the police state. Can't fly list. Can't buy gun list. Getting pretty in our face, or at least, public acceptance is paving the way.

 

[Anti Federalist]

Fascists gonna fasce.

Of course it's a dangerous precendent, the very worst of the worst.

Losing fundamental rights because you are secretly placed on a secret government list.

People have lost their minds, and freedom is not popular.

GTFO while you can.

Well, at least that's public and you have an accountable judge, etc.

Are these FBI lists going to be public? Who is accountable? The corporate entity known as the federal government? This is a dangerous precedent, and kind of scary coming from NRA people.

Questions are rhetorical, but we are rapidly accelerating into completely normalizing the police state. Can't fly list. Can't buy gun list. Getting pretty in our face, or at least, public acceptance is paving the way.

 

[jmdrake]

Well, at least that's public and you have an accountable judge, etc.

Are these FBI lists going to be public? Who is accountable? The corporate entity known as the federal government? This is a dangerous precedent, and kind of scary coming from NRA people.

Questions are rhetorical, but we are rapidly accelerating into completely normalizing the police state. Can't fly list. Can't buy gun list. Getting pretty in our face, or at least, public acceptance is paving the way.

You are, of course, 100% correct. And this is what happens when idiots say things like "Who cares about the no fly list? You don't have to fly." Or "Who cares about naked body scanners? I have nothing to hide." Some of those people used to post here regularly. (BlackTerrel comes to mind.) The rest of us saw what was happening. We are slowly being conditioned to accept more and more tyranny.

Here's a question. Why was one gunman in Orlando able to kill over 10 times more people than two gunmen in Tel Aviv? Because armed security in Tel Aviv shot back! Good guys with guns are the only antidote to bad guys with guns.