Trump Has Killed More Civilians with Illegal Drone Strikes in 9 Months Than Obama Did in 8 Yea

I have a question, how many drone strikes took place in O'Bummer's 8 years and how many took place in Dump's first 9 months?
 
Swordsmyth said:
I have a question, how many drone strikes took place in O'Bummer's 8 years and how many took place in Dump's first 9 months?
Click to expand...

Not quite what you asked for, but informative

dsfnyfjuqaauglo_orig.jpg
 
Origanalist said:
He's given a tax break and he's not a economic lunatic like Obama. Beyond that I don't have much good to say about him other than he might cut some regulations. But he's going to devalue the dollar worse than the dems with his big spending if he gets his way. On the two things that matter most to me he is a big 0. Foreign intervention and the police state.

There will be no apologies coming from me.
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^^^^This
 
William Tell said:
I did read your post. I don't take the time to respond to every point I agree with. The numbers we heard about Bush and Obama could be incorrect too. What difference does it make? That's all speculation of leftist anti war sites vs NeoCon warmonger sites. Either way the policies that are causing innocents to die are continuing, unless you have evidence otherwise.

I don't recall anyone here hand wringing over the exact numbers under about Bush and Obama.
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That's because there wasn't any. Airwars wasn't around for Bush, but their statistics were perfectly acceptable when they were cited against Obama. As they should have been. But now that they reveal that God Emperor Trump has no clothes they suddenly become suspect? Imagine that!
 
William Tell said:
Absolutely. He's one of the worst globalists out there. But he has his fingers in more pies than he has complete control of. Kind of like how various conservative organizations over the years have got Rockefeller money. I haven't seen evidence that he calls the shots for Airwars.
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That's because there isn't any real evidence to indicate that except in some people's excessively paranoid delusions.
 
Origanalist said:
He's given a tax break and he's not a economic lunatic like Obama.
Click to expand...

You say it as if these were trivialities. They are not.

Beyond that I don't have much good to say about him other than he might cut some regulations.
Click to expand...

He's done a goodly bit more than that. WND posted a list of 179 accomplishments of his first year. Some of them are questionable and I admit I didn't wade through the entire list, but some of them are what I have characterized as steps in a better direction. More on that later.

But he's going to devalue the dollar worse than the dems with his big spending if he gets his way.
Click to expand...

HE is going to? We have been acquainted for a goodly number of years and I have come to regard you as someone of stout intelligence. We all know, or should, that that game is rigged in terms of the "money".

I would also note that the USS Debt Machine is a huge vessel. Consider all the factors behind our debt - the sheer size, the Fed and its owners. Trump is no fool, regardless of what those who hate him would have the world believe. He may actually hold Americans in good regard, but regardless, he still loves Trump the most and that is nothing for which he owes anybody an apology. Once again, we come right back to the issue of whether what we are witnessing is "real", or grand political theater on a scale heretofore not seen. Assuming the former, Trump has very powerful enemies and doubtless he is keenly aware. I think we can all agree he is narcissistic, if not to the degree of Obama and certainly not so ignorantly as that. Being a smart narcissist, he almost certainly knows that even he can push things only so far before his brains are scattered all over a sidewalk.

Given all this, there is only so much he can do without precipitating disaster upon himself, as well as the American people. Were he to pull the plug on spending, and assuming he had the ready means to evade the unpleasant fate his enemies held in store for him, the effects on America would be devastating as the house of cards came crashing down. We al know the dollar is a debt instrument. When we stop kicking the can, as the saying goes, the Fed is immediately faced with a grave dilemma: they either lay down for the losses, which destroys the image they have cultivated as an economic authority, or they call in the loans in order to avoid it. If the former, they are done. If the latter, they are done, and so are we. The Fed might attempt to foreclose on USA INC. through seizure of assets including all federally-held lands, as well as those private which have been pledged in collateral without authority, decades ago. If they do this, the economy dies and you have war. The Fed will have killed the goose laying its golden eggs and one way or another, everything toward which I am assuming they have worked for well over 100 years is lost.

Yes, the Fed has us by the balls, but I see that we have them as well, if only as an unintended consequence of their financial architecture. They are as dependent upon non-disruption of the economic status quo as are we.

Because of all this, there is very little latitude for Trump in the relevant terms. If he messes with the process more than just a very little, <KABOOM>. YOU ,personlly, do not want <KABOOM>, unless you are fool enough to want war from sea to shining sea with the promise of a bullet or living like a caveman. Pushing the debt issue, as I am sure you well know, is enormously dangerous. Letting that bomb go off nearly guarantees death even by the millions. Years ago in Hinton WV the state was a day or two late with welfare disbursements and the parasites were ready to burn the town to the ground. Imagine if the supply chains for basic commodities were to be seriously disrupted for weeks. Terrified people would be rioting and killing each other before two weeks were out.

It is one thing to want the proper freedom we all know is our birthright. It is a very different issue to make it real within the practical strictures placed upon us by the reality that has been foisted upon us by Themme.

Therefore, unless YOU are willing to risk a quickly forthcoming and violent death by waging war directly against Themme, I don't think the position I infer from your words and the tone I assume based on them is valid. I probably want what you want, but I am sorely aware that I am almost certain never to have it, thanks to the corruption of our American forebears who, rather than standing tall and slaughtering the tyrants and their children, stood idly by as servants and slaves, accepting that which was foisted upon them without the least authority beyond common accession. Theye had the authority not because they had it per sé, but because the people over whom they presumed to lord accepted their lots as serfs and gave it to them. Shame on them and shame on us, as I have written here many times before.

On the two things that matter most to me he is a big 0. Foreign intervention and the police state.
Click to expand...

And so you will toss the baby out because it has red hair and freckles? That is senseless. I believe it is safe to say that most of the people here do not regard Trump as an ideal president. I don't. You don't. But he is worlds better than Hillary would have been. IMO, you should get behind him even if only in small measure for the little good he does. That is the more responsible way, as well as bringing to his attention that at which you find him to be in failure mode. The only alternatives are to bitch at him impotently, be silent, or start shooting. Clearly, the first two are utter wastes of an intelligent man's time, The latter may be the inevitability no sane and decent man wants, but we HAVE experienced a pretty strong change in the political status quo. The simple fact that the appearances are so different is in itself significant. The fact that we have been moved, however stintingly and marginally, in a better (note I don't say "right") direction tells us that either this is grand theater with a punch line we are likely to hate, or something potentially good is actually transpiring. I don't know which case it be, but am glad just to see a shift away from the heading on which we have been since heaven only knows when.

Hate Trump all you want, of course, but ask yourself what is it buying you? I say it is nothing good, but cannot speak for anyone other than myself.

We are in the kimchee up to our eyeballs, I trust you will agree. Given that, as well as the impossibly huge size of that which needs course correction, you have no valid basis for complaint, AS YET, against Trump. This mess is nothing that is going to miraculously become tidy in 8 years, especially with the winds of Congress blowing at hurricane-force directly in your face.

Patience, my pal. Patience. The "left" has been ever so patient for over 100 years to achieve what it now enjoys. It may take that long to return America to what it was ca. 1900. Hate if you must, but I don't think it is going to serve anyone well. Just look how the "left" is pooching in that regard, and I do believe that that is precisely what they are doing, whether by intention or accident. Their legions appear to be getting away from them... that, or their strategy is misbegotten.

Whatever the case, you have to admit that things are happening and we are living in a very "interesting" time. My reticently offered recommendation is to be patient, give Trump credit where due, and rather than calling for his head on a pig pole, offer constructive criticism where you feel it is necessary. And by "you", I mean the third person - all of us.

Where you apparently see disaster, I see opportunity that would not have been available had Hillary become president. Not even close, so count and be thankful for the small blessings that drop into your laps.

There will be no apologies coming from me.
Click to expand...

As you will.

PS: Trump's clear imperfection should also serve as yet another lesson in the value of good intentions: they count for nothing in the end when one's results are wrong. Therefore, is governance not every man's clear responsibility to himself, if not to his fellows? But people don't want it - they want someone else to assume it. Therefore: tyrants.
 
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osan said:
You say it as if these were trivialities. They are not.



He's done a goodly bit more than that. WND posted a list of 179 accomplishments of his first year. Some of them are questionable and I admit I didn't wade through the entire list, but some of them are what I have characterized as steps in a better direction. More on that later.



HE is going to? We have been acquainted for a goodly number of years and I have come to regard you as someone of stout intelligence. We all know, or should, that that game is rigged in terms of the "money".

I would also note that the USS Debt Machine is a huge vessel. Consider all the factors behind our debt - the sheer size, the Fed and its owners. Trump is no fool, regardless of what those who hate him would have the world believe. He may actually hold Americans in good regard, but regardless, he still loves Trump the most and that is nothing for which he owes anybody an apology. Once again, we come right back to the issue of whether what we are witnessing is "real", or grand political theater on a scale heretofore not seen. Assuming the former, Trump has very powerful enemies and doubtless he is keenly aware. I think we can all agree he is narcissistic, if not to the degree of Obama and certainly not so ignorantly as that. Being a smart narcissist, he almost certainly knows that even he can push things only so far before his brains are scattered all over a sidewalk.

Given all this, there is only so much he can do without precipitating disaster upon himself, as well as the American people. Were he to pull the plug on spending, and assuming he had the ready means to evade the unpleasant fate his enemies held in store for him, the effects on America would be devastating as the house of cards came crashing down. We al know the dollar is a debt instrument. When we stop kicking the can, as the saying goes, the Fed is immediately faced with a grave dilemma: they either lay down for the losses, which destroys the image they have cultivated as an economic authority, or they call in the loans in order to avoid it. If the former, they are done. If the latter, they are done, and so are we. The Fed might attempt to foreclose on USA INC. through seizure of assets including all federally-held lands, as well as those private which have been pledged in collateral without authority, decades ago. If they do this, the economy dies and you have war. The Fed will have killed the goose laying its golden eggs and one way or another, everything toward which I am assuming they have worked for well over 100 years is lost.

Yes, the Fed has us by the balls, but I see that we have them as well, if only as an unintended consequence of their financial architecture. They are as dependent upon non-disruption of the economic status quo as are we.

Because of all this, there is very little latitude for Trump in the relevant terms. If he messes with the process more than just a very little, <KABOOM>. YOU ,personlly, do not want <KABOOM>, unless you are fool enough to want war from sea to shining sea with the promise of a bullet or living like a caveman. Pushing the debt issue, as I am sure you well know, is enormously dangerous. Letting that bomb go off nearly guarantees death even by the millions. Years ago in Hinton WV the state was a day or two late with welfare disbursements and the parasites were ready to burn the town to the ground. Imagine if the supply chains for basic commodities were to be seriously disrupted for weeks. Terrified people would be rioting and killing each other before two weeks were out.

It is one thing to want the proper freedom we all know is our birthright. It is a very different issue to make it real within the practical strictures placed upon us by the reality that has been foisted upon us by Themme.

Therefore, unless YOU are willing to risk a quickly forthcoming and violent death by waging war directly against Themme, I don't think the position I infer from your words and the tone I assume based on them is valid. I probably want what you want, but I am sorely aware that I am almost certain never to have it, thanks to the corruption of our American forebears who, rather than standing tall and slaughtering the tyrants and their children, stood idly by as servants and slaves, accepting that which was foisted upon them without the least authority beyond common accession. Theye had the authority not because they had it per sé, but because the people over whom they presumed to lord accepted their lots as serfs and gave it to them. Shame on them and shame on us, as I have written here many times before.



And so you will toss the baby out because it has red hair and freckles? That is senseless. I believe it is safe to say that most of the people here do not regard Trump as an ideal president. I don't. You don't. But he is worlds better than Hillary would have been. IMO, you should get behind him even if only in small measure for the little good he does. That is the more responsible way, as well as bringing to his attention that at which you find him to be in failure mode. The only alternatives are to bitch at him impotently, be silent, or start shooting. Clearly, the first two are utter wastes of an intelligent man's time, The latter may be the inevitability no sane and decent man wants, but we HAVE experienced a pretty strong change in the political status quo. The simple fact that the appearances are so different is in itself significant. The fact that we have been moved, however stintingly and marginally, in a better (note I don't say "right") direction tells us that either this is grand theater with a punch line we are likely to hate, or something potentially good is actually transpiring. I don't know which case it be, but am glad just to see a shift away from the heading on which we have been since heaven only knows when.

Hate Trump all you want, of course, but ask yourself what is it buying you? I say it is nothing good, but cannot speak for anyone other than myself.

We are in the kimchee up to our eyeballs, I trust you will agree. Given that, as well as the impossibly huge size of that which needs course correction, you have no valid basis for complaint, AS YET, against Trump. This mess is nothing that is going to miraculously become tidy in 8 years, especially with the winds of Congress blowing at hurricane-force directly in your face.

Patience, my pal. Patience. The "left" has been ever so patient for over 100 years to achieve what it now enjoys. It may take that long to return America to what it was ca. 1900. Hate if you must, but I don't think it is going to serve anyone well. Just look how the "left" is pooching in that regard, and I do believe that that is precisely what they are doing, whether by intention or accident. Their legions appear to be getting away from them... that, or their strategy is misbegotten.

Whatever the case, you have to admit that things are happening and we are living in a very "interesting" time. My reticently offered recommendation is to be patient, give Trump credit where due, and rather than calling for his head on a pig pole, offer constructive criticism where you feel it is necessary. And my "you", I mean the third person - all of us.

Where you apparently see disaster, I see opportunity that would not have been available had Hillary become president. Not even close, so count and be thankful for the small blessings that drop into your laps.



As you will.

PS: Trump's clear imperfection should also serve as yet another lesson in the value of good intentions: they count for nothing in the end when one's results are wrong. Therefore, is governance not every man's clear responsibility to himself, if not his fellows? But people don't want it - they want someone else to assume it. Therefore: tyrants.
Click to expand...

As always, a great response osan.

I am not oblivious to the differences between Trump and Obama/Hillary, yet the fact remains Trump himself is largely responsible for the increase in drone bombings and is a cheerleader for the police state. And I don't think it it is something he's doing in self preservation. As far as the economic agenda, he is not in control as you so well pointed out and you most certainly are correct about that.
 
Origanalist said:
As always, a great response osan.

I am not oblivious to the differences between Trump and Obama/Hillary, yet the fact remains Trump himself is largely responsible for the increase in drone bombings and is a cheerleader for the police state.
Click to expand...

These points are well taken. Now, what will you do about them? IMO, rather than damning Trump out of hand (understandable as the impulse is, at least to me), how about devising a strategy and the attendant tactics for helping things along in a better direction? Bottom-up is the only solution, IMO. Get like-minded people in your locale interested (tough row, that) and brainstorm on how to nudge things in a better direction. If you can get a governor to see the light, is that not a step in a better direction?

I hold precious lesser hope for Congressmen, but if one doesn't try...

The same goes for me. I too have been guilty of moaning about things without doing as much as I might. And therein lies the problem to which I so often refer: pawning our personal responsibilities off onto others, ostensibly in the name of the efficiency provided by division of labor. While said efficiencies are real and measurable, they are of no net value if the common result attained is the tyranny that invariably devolves upon those whom it is supposed to serve.

GoverNANCE is what we need, not governMENT. As the Framers emphasized time and again, a free people cannot be populated with ignorant and corrupt individuals. On the mean, America is appallingly ignorant and unforgivably corrupt. Therefore: tyranny.

The choice is ours. We could end this nonsense in short order, but we will not. Half the reason is all the people with Bammy's thing yet on their breaths and the other are those mindless worshippers of Trump who believe he does no wrong. The minds of most Americans are wholly and utterly hosed. I don't know how to defeat that, save to kill them all - a less-desirable path - or to educate by reason and example how a given belief system is wrong. But that latter one takes a lot of time before critical mass can be achieved, barring a deeply disruptive "reset" event.

And I don't think it it is something he's doing in self preservation.
Click to expand...

OK, but on what do you base the belief? If it is your distaste for the man, I would have to advise FAIL. But if you have a rational, fact-basis, I would be interested in seeing it. I don't say you are mistaken, but neither have I a basis for accepting it as so. It's politics, so I suppose just about anything is possible.

As far as the economic agenda, he is not in control as you so well pointed out and you most certainly are correct about that.
Click to expand...

And therefore IMO Trump may merit a little slack. He doesn't appear to hold Americans in the open contempt that his predecessors so clearly did. Bush^2 looked down his nose at us, as did Der Klinton^1. Obammy made little effort to hide his blind hatred of white Americans. At least Trump makes the effort to appear to be on our side. It may be genuine, or not. Only time will tell. Until then, give yourself a break, if not him, and keep an open mind. Expect the worst, but dare to hope for something less horrible. It will help you more thatn will disgust. In. My. Opinion.

Good luck to one and all.
 
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My phone is starting irritate me so you'll have to forgive me not quoting you properly. I haven't had a chance to fix or replace my computer.

Trump has been a cheerleader for the police state for decades, this is not something new with him. And the increase in bombing is something he ran on and clearly believes is something that should be done.

The rest of your post I have no issue with.
 
Superfluous Man said:
From the article:

"It all started with a simple loan between billionaires, but one is known as an avid socialist who is out to destroy the American way of life, while the other...."

I was really hoping that sentence would end with, "is George Soros."
Click to expand...

Don't make me blow a beverage out of my nose in a public place like that. It's embarrassing. HAHAHAHA
 
undergroundrr said:
When this is brought up, it's always met with absolute silence by the Trump Protection Team. Soros is trump's banker. He even forgave some of trump's past debt if I remember right. Has trump gotten more money from Soros than airwars has? White helmets? We'll likely never know.
Click to expand...


They do seem to have great difficulty Trumpsplaining that away, don't they?
 
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