Trump floats eliminating U.S. income tax and replacing it with tariffs on imports

:rolleyes: You've given the reason why it likely won't pass as opposed to why it wouldn't work.

Pass? Of course it can. Trump has a proven history on this. What he gave you was permanent consumption tax increases and temporary income tax decreases.


Go ahead and clap while they raise your taxes, then hold out your hands while you wait and see what you get in return.
 
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Pass? Of course it can. Trump has a proven history on this. What he gave you was permanent consumption tax increases and temporary income tax decreases.


Go ahead and clap while they raise your taxes, then hold out your hands while you wait and see what you get in return.

More dishonest deflection from you. I'M NOT FVCKING TALKING ABOUT TRUMP! So take Trump OUT of the equation! If someone other than Trump (A president Rand Paul in 2029 for example) persuaded congress to pass replacing the income tax with tariffs on imports, do you think that would be a workable idea? Why or why not?
 
More dishonest deflection from you. I'M NOT FVCKING TALKING ABOUT TRUMP! So take Trump OUT of the equation! If someone other than Trump (A president Rand Paul in 2029 for example) persuaded congress to pass replacing the income tax with tariffs on imports, do you think that would be a workable idea? Why or why not?

Oh gee I can't imagine why I would have thought that this thread was about Trump. I must have just imagined him in the thread title.

1) No because I have my doubts that a President Rand Paul would support any such concept.
2) No because it would take decades for the US to adjust its spending to a level that would be compatible with a tariff-based tax system.
3) No because - unlike income-based taxes - consumption-based taxes substantially change consumer behavior. If you say that you need X tax level on Y imports to sustain Z spending, by the time you impose that tax you've reduced imports and now you need a different tax level.
4) No because imports tank when you have a recession and surge during a boom, which is the opposite of what you want.
5) No because only a Trumpkin could actually believe "tariffs are a tax on foreign companies instead of Americans."
 
Ron Paul wants to shrink the size of government.

Trump does not.


There you go, that's the difference.

Trump campaigned to drain the swamp in 2016. After elected, he was advised that he can't fire people.

That is correct, he can't fire individuals. But as Vivek has pointed out, he can fire large swaths.

That is part of Trump's plan this go-around, and I'm all for it.

Spending is certainly a big issue that's up in the air, but the benefits of firing a significant portion of government employees is also worth voting for by itself - not to mention foreign policy, stuff like this thread, stuff like bitcoin, etc...
 
Trump campaigned to drain the swamp in 2016.

Replace "campaigned" with "said"


Trump said a lot of things in 2016. He did nearly none of them.



After elected, he was advised that he can't fire people.


Firing people does not drain the swamp. Firing people removes the alligators from the swamp but leaves the swamp intact so that you can fill it with your own alligators.


Spending is certainly a big issue that's up in the air, but the benefits of firing a significant portion of government employees is also worth voting for by itself - not to mention foreign policy, stuff like this thread, stuff like bitcoin, etc...

You can't even bring yourself to say that he actually thinks or believes these things. They're just "up in the air."
 
Oh gee I can't imagine why I would have thought that this thread was about Trump. I must have just imagined him in the thread title.

But I asked you a specific question that didn't involve Trump. I thought you have the intelligence to follow along in a conversation. My bad for overestimating you.

1) No because I have my doubts that a President Rand Paul would support any such concept.

That's just stupid. Ron Paul proposed the idea. Rand Paul would go along with it. The only reason Rand doesn't go along with everything Ron proposes is that some things aren't popular with Rand's base. For example before Rand ran for senator, there's video of him being asked about Iran getting a nuclear weapon and his response was that's no big deal. He absolutely flip flopped on that after running and after being elected even signed the infamous Tom Cotton letter against the Obama / Iran nuclear deal (which is possibly a violation of the Logan Act). By contrast getting rid of the income tax would be hugely popular with his base.

2) No because it would take decades for the US to adjust its spending to a level that would be compatible with a tariff-based tax system.

Not a valid reason. Spending levels need to be adjusted. And if you have any intelligence at all (which I'm beginning to doubt) you know that spending levels aren't based on tax revenue anyway. That's why they keep raising the debt ceiling. But replacing the income tax with tariffs forced congress to take spending seriously that's only a positive.

3) No because - unlike income-based taxes - consumption-based taxes substantially change consumer behavior. If you say that you need X tax level on Y imports to sustain spending, by the time you impose that tax you've reduced imports and now you need a different tax level.

So? Income-based taxes, with all of the tax loopholes, change consumer behavior as well. And it turns the entire country into lawbreakers. Technically you're not just supposed to report "wages and tips" (and Donald Trump has already copied Ron Paul's no taxes on tips proposal) but you're also supposed to report "gifts" and garage sale income and fill-in-the-blank. In an increasingly gig economy the income tax is the worst form of tyranny. Besides, many European countries have moved to a VAT which is a type of consumer based tax and they're doing fine. And you're at cross purposes with Ron Paul and this entire movement with your "sustain a certain level of spending" comment. The whole point is to reduce the size and scope of the federal government.

4) No because imports tank when you have a recession and surge during a boom, which is the opposite of what you want.

Byllshyt. Imports don't "tank" when just about everything people buy these days is imported. We don't import food and a few other essentials. But clothes still wear out and need to be replaced during a recession. And people are still addicted to their electronic gizmos and replace the during a recession.

5) No because only a Trumpkin could actually believe "tariffs are a tax on foreign companies instead of Americans."

A) That's a straw man argument. B) Ron Paul came up with the proposal first. C) What are you even doing here? Seriously.
 
But I asked you a specific question that didn't involve Trump. I thought you have the intelligence to follow along in a conversation. My bad for overestimating you.

Trump is a noxious symptom of an illness but even without Trump the illness remains.


That's just stupid. Ron Paul proposed the idea. Rand Paul would go along with it. The only reason Rand doesn't go along with everything Ron proposes is that some things aren't popular with Rand's base. For example before Rand ran for senator, there's video of him being asked about Iran getting a nuclear weapon and his response was that's no big deal. He absolutely flip flopped on that after running and after being elected even signed the infamous Tom Cotton letter against the Obama / Iran nuclear deal (which is possibly a violation of the Logan Act). By contrast getting rid of the income tax would be hugely popular with his base.

How does Rand's support for NAFTA and other free trade agreements square with his support for tariffs?

Why did he chose a flat income tax for his previous proposals if he's so enamored with tariffs?


Not a valid reason. Spending levels need to be adjusted. And if you have any intelligence at all (which I'm beginning to doubt) you know that spending levels aren't based on tax revenue anyway. That's why they keep raising the debt ceiling. But replacing the income tax with tariffs forced congress to take spending seriously that's only a positive.

Cool story bro. What does that have to do with what I said?


So? Income-based taxes, with all of the tax loopholes, change consumer behavior as well. And it turns the entire country into lawbreakers. Technically you're not just supposed to report "wages and tips" (and Donald Trump has already copied Ron Paul's no taxes on tips proposal) but you're also supposed to report "gifts" and garage sale income and fill-in-the-blank. In an increasingly gig economy the income tax is the worst form of tyranny. Besides, many European countries have moved to a VAT which is a type of consumer based tax and they're doing fine. And you're at cross purposes with Ron Paul and this entire movement with your "sustain a certain level of spending" comment. The whole point is to reduce the size and scope of the federal government.

Cool story bro. What does that have to do with what I said? Oh, and which European country moved to a VAT instead of an income tax?


Byllshyt. Imports don't "tank" when just about everything people buy these days is imported. We don't import food and a few other essentials. But clothes still wear out and need to be replaced during a recession. And people are still addicted to their electronic gizmos and replace the during a recession.

Sounds great. Lemme know if and when you find anything supporting your feelings on this.


A) That's a straw man argument. B) Ron Paul came up with the proposal first. C) What are you even doing here? Seriously.

Cool story bro. What does that have to do with what I said?
 
Trump is a noxious symptom of an illness but even without Trump the illness remains.




How does Rand's support for NAFTA and other free trade agreements square with his support for tariffs?

Why did he chose a flat income tax for his previous proposals if he's so enamored with tariffs?




Cool story bro. What does that have to do with what I said?




Cool story bro. What does that have to do with what I said? Oh, and which European country moved to a VAT instead of an income tax?




Sounds great. Lemme know if and when you find anything supporting your feelings on this.




Cool story bro. What does that have to do with what I said?

Answering questions with questions... Cool, tactic bro. We know what you're doing here.
 
Unfortunately, when Trump floats an idea like this, you know that the part of the equation he really wants is the tariffs. The elimination of the income tax is just an opening bid that he'll quickly surrender, so that we can keep the income tax and get much higher tariffs on top of it.
 
Unfortunately, when Trump floats an idea like this, you know that the part of the equation he really wants is the tariffs. The elimination of the income tax is just an opening bid that he'll quickly surrender, so that we can keep the income tax and get much higher tariffs on top of it.


That's why Mises.org calls Trump the "Bait and Switch" President. Except, people don't learn from history/mistakes too well.
 
Unfortunately, when Trump floats an idea like this, you know that the part of the equation he really wants is the tariffs. The elimination of the income tax is just an opening bid that he'll quickly surrender, so that we can keep the income tax and get much higher tariffs on top of it.

Bunk.
 
Both of you are gaslighting.
Trump has a strong record of tax cuts for Americans.

He doesn't have any kind of a record to cause a realistic person to believe income tax is in the slightest danger of going away.

A deranged person, perhaps. But that's the gaslight, and nobody who isn't deranged is buying it.
 
Trump may well get elected, in which case we'll get to test your theory against mine.

My confidence level is high that he will push for major increases in tariffs, and will never propose eliminating the income tax.

It's the Billionaire Club. Once Elon and others get the subsidies that they want that they "can't get" under the Biden Harris Administration, the Lame Duck president will leave office and leave us stuck with the bill.
 
It's the Billionaire Club. Once Elon and others get the subsidies that they want that they "can't get" under the Biden Harris Administration, the Lame Duck president will leave office and leave us stuck with the bill.

Just like he did before.
 
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