Tom Woods V flip flop - Stay true Ron Paul!

[febo]

After the interview with Rand - who sounded, to be frank, weak, Woods comes out with a powerful rant encouraging Ron Paul to stay true, to stay 100%. I'm with him.
It's time RP went third party. I hope his current silence indicates he's thinking about it.
Think about it - what would be more exciting right now, RP announcing 3rd party and launching powerful attacks on both Reps and Dems, or ... he gets muscled out of it my the GOP and a complaiscent general public?


http://ronpaulflix.com/2012/05/tom-woods-interviews-rand-paul-on-the-budget-his-father-and-more-may-17-2012/

 

[Occam's Banana]

After the interview with Rand - who sounded, to be frank, weak, Woods comes out with a powerful rant encouraging Ron Paul to stay true, to stay 100%. I'm with him.

Tom asks Rand about Ron-related matters starting around 11:50 mark.
Tom's exellent post-interview commentary starts around 14:45 mark.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gg7u_IYBr38

It's time RP went third party. I hope his current silence indicates he's thinking about it.
Think about it - what would be more exciting right now, RP announcing 3rd party and launching powerful attacks on both Reps and Dems, or ... he gets muscled out of it my the GOP and a complaiscent general public?

I disagree. Ron Paul going 3rd-party/independent (3-P/I) would be an unmitigated disaster for the Revolution.

It *would* be exciting - and I would vote for RP if he were in a 3-P/I ballot slot - but it would be an utlimately pointless "last hurrah." As satisfying as it might be, it would accomplish nothing in the long term (or even in the short term). It would amount to nothing but a grand symbolic gesture.

Think about it ... going 3-P/I is *exactly* what the GOP establishment wants Ron Paul to do. Why do you suppose that is?

It's because 3-P/I efforts are a "safety valve" that effectively diverts discontentment into channels that pose no threat to the establishment. The establishment - Republicans, Democrats & the MSM - have rigged the game to ensure that 3-P/I efforts will go nowhere (by means of ballot access restrictions, debate shut-outs, media black-outs, etc., etc.).

It's also because the GOP could then claim that a 3-P/I run would "prove" that Ron Paul & his supporters were never "really" Republicans to begin with, and they would use this "proof" to justify thier treatment of RP. They would also use it as an excuse to "purge" all the RP supporters who have successfully gained positions in state parties across the country.

A successful grassroots insurgency within the GOP, from the precinct level up, is the absolute *LAST* thing the establishment GOP wants to see. And that is exactly what is happening right now. A 3-P/I campaign by Ron Paul would stop that dead in its tracks.

Fortunately, Ron Paul is smart enough to understand these things. I am confident he will not torpedo the Revolution by "going rogue" just when we are getting a good toe-hold in state & local parties across the country. He knows - and has repeatedly said - that this movement is *not* just about him & his campaign.

The establishment *wants* Ron Paul out of their hair. Well, I say, let's not give them what they want! Let's do just the opposite!

 

[febo]

consolation prizes

 

[kathy88]

And most importantly, a third party bid would place Romney's defeat squarely at Ron's feet. He would take the fall for it forever. WE all know he'll lose. And they can still to some extent blame us/him, but a third party bid would be too fabulous for them.

 

[Tamasaburo]

It's because 3-P/I efforts are a "safety valve" that effectively diverts discontentment into channels that pose no threat to the establishment. The establishment - Republicans, Democrats & the MSM - have rigged the game to ensure that 3-P/I efforts will go nowhere (by means of ballot access restrictions, debate shut-outs, media black-outs, etc., etc.).

It's also because the GOP could then claim that a 3-P/I run would "prove" that Ron Paul & his supporters were never "really" Republicans to begin with, and they would use this "proof" to justify thier treatment of RP. They would also use it as an excuse to "purge" all the RP supporters who have successfully gained positions in state parties across the country.

Excellent points!

 

[febo]

And most importantly, a third party bid would place Romney's defeat squarely at Ron's feet. He would take the fall for it forever. WE all know he'll lose. And they can still to some extent blame us/him, but a third party bid would be too fabulous for them.

Who cares about Romney? Who cares?

 

[Occam's Banana]

And most importantly, a third party bid would place Romney's defeat squarely at Ron's feet. He would take the fall for it forever. WE all know he'll lose. And they can still to some extent blame us/him, but a third party bid would be too fabulous for them.

THIS ^^.

And from a strictly strategic point of view, if Romney is nominated it would be best if Obama wins re-election, because:

A) it would allow the Revolution to field a Republican candidate in 2016 (rather than having to wait until 2020), and

B) it would also allow us to say, "We told you so!" to the establishment GOP (and, more importantly, to the GOP rank-and-file who did not support Ron Paul in 2012).

If Ron runs 3rd-party/independent, both A and B would be ruined.

Who cares about Romney? Who cares?

No one cares. That's the point!

If Romney is nominated & loses - and Ron Paul does NOT run 3rd-party/independent - then we can point out that Romney lost because NO ONE CARES. He's just an establishment robot and the Republicans were fools for nominating him. We can point out that LOTS of people care about Ron Paul - and if the Republicans had nominated him instead of Romney, they could have defeated Obama.

On the other hand, if Romney is nominated & loses - and Ron Paul DOES run 3rd-party/independent - things will go just like kathy88 says. The GOP will never admit that it made a huge mistake by nominating Romney (because no one cares about him). Instead, they'll put all the blame on Ron Paul & his supporters, and the foot-in-the-door we've gained in the GOP will all go for nothing.

 

[NoOneButPaul]

And most importantly, a third party bid would place Romney's defeat squarely at Ron's feet. He would take the fall for it forever. WE all know he'll lose. And they can still to some extent blame us/him, but a third party bid would be too fabulous for them.

Its amazing that people just don't realize how insanely destructive a 3rd party run would be...

 

[Feeding the Abscess]

For the love of something, somebody hire that guy in their political race somewhere. Kurt Bills, you listening?

And could Rand get any more mealy-mouthed? Holy eff. I shudder to think at what he'll be saying when Ron is out of the national spotlight and the margins are narrowed.

 

[ninepointfive]

Its amazing that people just don't realize how insanely destructive a 3rd party run would be...

please explain

 

[RickyJ]

Rand Paul said he would endorse the republican nominee.

He can run in 2016, but I won't vote for him,

Ron Paul better run third party because America needs him now. In a fair election he can win running third party.

 

[RickyJ]

Its amazing that people just don't realize how insanely destructive a 3rd party run would be...

It's amazing that people think the establishment will ever let someone like Ron Paul win. If somehow we took over the Republican party they would just start a new party and call us the fake Republicans and themselves the true republicans and the media would go along with it.

Ron's only chance is to run third party with a fair election. That is the only way we can peacefully take this country back.

 

[airborne373]

I want some of that third party cool-aid. Total release from reality.

Sorry to harsh your buzz but the sheer numbers of the D & R party crush any third party. Its pure mathematics. Third parties in America are philosophical debating leagues and I support them 100%. But our very lives are at risk, and this revolution is in the midst of another upset of G.O.P. establishment party loyalist and taking control of a powerful political party that has around 55 MILLION members and vast resources.

Two birds with one stone are struck. Sun Tzu would be proud.

The opposite tactic is to leave the G.O.P. firmly entrenched and in power and somehow take the Libertarian Party with a few hundred thousand members and defeat them in an epic Pay for Play cable special. Makes great TV, I suppose. But will not happen in our life times. Its mathematics.

 

[Occam's Banana]

It's amazing that people think the establishment will ever let someone like Ron Paul win. If somehow we took over the Republican party they would just start a new party and call us the fake Republicans and themselves the true republicans and the media would go along with it.

Ron's only chance is to run third party with a fair election. That is the only way we can peacefully take this country back.

Dissonate cognitively, much?

 

[RickyJ]

I want some of that third party cool-aid. Total release from reality.

Sorry to harsh your buzz but the sheer numbers of the D & R party crush any third party. Its pure mathematics. Third parties in America are philosophical debating leagues and I support them 100%. But our very lives are at risk, and this revolution is in the midst of another upset of G.O.P. establishment party loyalist and taking control of a powerful political party that has around 55 MILLION members and vast resources.

Two birds with one stone are struck. Sun Tzu would be proud.

The opposite tactic is to leave the G.O.P. firmly entrenched and in power and somehow take the Libertarian Party with a few hundred thousand members and defeat them in an epic Pay for Play cable special. Makes great TV, I suppose. But will not happen in our life times. Its mathematics.

No it is not mathematics. You must of failed math because over half this nation does not even bother to vote! When they are motivated to vote the established parties mean nothing to them, they vote for who they like. Jesse Ventura ran and won the governorship in Minnesota running Independent. He won because the voters that usually don't vote, voted for him because they liked him so much.

 

[floridasun1983]

Tom should have been involved in the campaign. That's all I can say.

 

[Jingles]

For the love of something, somebody hire that guy in their political race somewhere. Kurt Bills, you listening?

And could Rand get any more mealy-mouthed? Holy eff. I shudder to think at what he'll be saying when Ron is out of the national spotlight and the margins are narrowed.

He used to speak a lot better. Now It's more like listening to a typical Republican and it get's annoying. I think he needs a long vacation from the senate or something.

 

[rp713]

we dont have the money for an independent national campaign to run against 2 fully financed parties. end of conversation. cant even raise a million dollars in 3 days anymore. be realistic folks. lets see the inexpensive delegate process through to the end, and if ron can get the nomination, then the money will start rolling in again, plus money from the rnc to run a national campaign against obama. stop dreaming of a 3rd party run that will never happen.

 

[floridasun1983]

cant even raise a million dollars in 3 days anymore. be realistic folks. lets see the inexpensive delegate process through to the end, and if ron can get the nomination, then the money will start rolling in again, plus money from the rnc to run a national campaign against obama

To be fair, three days of "I quit, send me money" isn't exactly a great fundraising strategy.

 

[digitaldean]

Ron has said over and over he wants to save the Republican party. But when Mitt loses they might blame Paul and they will nominate Santorum in 2016 over maybe Rand as payback. But in a general election every sane person knows Santorum wont win more than 5 states. That big loss would be enough to break the Republican party which will help 1-2 new parties to form. At least this is my prediction from 2012 from the things I see.