Libertarian Party attacking Rand again: "Why Libertarians Hate Rand Paul" - Daily Beast

I must admit, some of the points in the article are good. I must also admit that if this was anyone else, we probably wouldn't give them the benefit of the doubt. Sigh.
 
If you want to express your dissatisfaction with Rand in private, among other libertarians, fine.

But anyone criticizing Rand in public, like in an interview with the fucking Daily Beast (!), is either intentionally subverting the movement or retarded.

Raimondo, that means you (well-intended but fucking retarded).

LP = combination of retards and fake libertarians
 
Regarding the letter, I think Patrick Buchanan nailed the situation pretty well.

Good read:

http://buchanan.org/blog/will-the-gop-kick-it-away-15744

excerpt:

Came then the astonishing letter drafted by Tom Cotton, a 2-month-old senator who makes Ted Cruz look like Ramsey Clark, that was signed by 47 Republicans. Sent to the ayatollah and mullahs, the Cotton letter instructed Iran that any deal signed by Kerry might not be worth the paper it was written on.

Congress could reject the deal, said the 47, and a new president in 2017 could cancel it with “the stroke of a pen.”

The letter’s purpose was the same as Bibi’s purpose — to scuttle, sabotage and sink any U.S. nuclear deal with Iran. But if there is no deal and Iran returns to enriching uranium to 20 percent, we are on the road to war.
 
Do libertarians even vote? At the end of the day that's all that matters: voting
 
juleswin said:
You also have to understand that it is the same Rand who didn't see any need to write a letter to the countries and corporations negotiating the TPP. In fact, he is calling not for a discussion about the trade agreement in congress instead he is calling for a fast track of it. Rand deserves any and all flack he gets for signing onto this stupid letter. And I am saying this as someone who understand that Rand is trying to connive, lie and sell his way into the White house and as someone who will likely vote for him when all is said and done
Click to expand...

Ummm.. Except he has said that Congress should be involved in TPP negotiations.
 
Pojunis led me inside past some staffers hunched over a computer trying to select a new party logo. “Is this too swastika-y?” he asked, pointing to an image closely resembling the Nazi insignia.
Click to expand...

Obligatory inferred Nazi association (from the MSM). Obviously these Nevada guys are Nazis. It's a good thing they don't support Rand. ;)
 
acptulsa said:
Well, yes. But just because there was a certain purpose to that letter does not mean that Rand Paul couldn't have his own, very different reasons for signing it.
Click to expand...

And on the flip-side, we could look at the purposes for writing it in the first place. No doubt Bill Kristol had a part in writing it. Was it to push for war with Iran? Was it to promote Tom Cotton? Was it to help Bibi? Was it to stall Iran negotiations? Maybe all of those.

But there's one more consideration: 2016. There was pressure on the Senate to sign this letter. How many Senators are running for President? Which ones will this letter help? Which one will it hurt? We're not playing checkers here. Jeb, Walker, Christie and Jindal all get to watch this letter controversy from the sidelines.
 
Libertarians need to treat their complete and utter political impotence as a problem to be fixed, not a fucking badge of honor.

"We want every liberty candidate to be a purely ideological libertarian, preferably a Rothbardian!"

Well, that's great; you've just rendered your own movement irrelevant and ineffectual. There may be a time when a radical libertarian candidate can actually work on the national stage, but that time is not now. Leftism and statism is the modern status quo. If Rand Paul stuck to his father's guns, he'd get the same amount of support that Ron did and we'll get fucking Jeb Bush, or someone equally horrendous. The next ten years are extremely important. People are sick of neoconservatism and the republican party is having an identity crisis. The GOP will probably never be purely libertarian, but we have more influence than ever. We have an opportunity to be the major players in what the American right wing is going to be in the 21st century. If we fail, there will be no more right in America. There will be an entity called the right, but it will be rightist in name only. The "conservatives" of today are the liberals of a generation ago. We have the opportunity to recreate a real, principled right wing that hasn't existed in this country since the post-WWII era. Libertarians need to get out of their ivory tower and take a serious dose of realpolitik.
 
ThePaleoLibertarian said:
Libertarians need to treat their complete and utter political impotence as a problem to be fixed, not a fucking badge of honor.

"We want every liberty candidate to be a purely ideological libertarian, preferably a Rothbardian!"

Well, that's great; you've just rendered your own movement irrelevant and ineffectual. There may be a time when a radical libertarian candidate can actually work on the national stage, but that time is not now. Leftism and statism is the modern status quo. If Rand Paul stuck to his father's guns, he'd get the same amount of support that Ron did and we'll get fucking Jeb Bush, or someone equally horrendous. The next ten years are extremely important. People are sick of neoconservatism and the republican party is having an identity crisis. The GOP will probably never be purely libertarian, but we have more influence than ever. We have an opportunity to be the major players in what the American right wing is going to be in the 21st century. If we fail, there will be no more right in America. There will be an entity called the right, but it will be rightist in name only. The "conservatives" of today are the liberals of a generation ago. We have the opportunity to recreate a real, principled right wing that hasn't existed in this country since the post-WWII era. Libertarians need to get out of their ivory tower and take a serious dose of realpolitik.
Click to expand...

Yes, they need to take an approach closer to what Rand is doing. They need to move away from their ideals, so they have a chance at success. If after doing this, they still have no chance at winning, they should move farther from their ideals. If they still have no chance at winning they should move even farther from their ideals. If you have to, and this looks like where Rand is at now, you may have to choose to abandon all your ideals, in order to win.

The important thing is that you win.

The even more important thing is that you vote, a lot.

+rep for a well thought out, pragmatic approach, to making effective change
 
bxm042 said:
Yes, they need to take an approach closer to what Rand is doing. They need to move away from their ideals, so they have a chance at success. If after doing this, they still have no chance at winning, they should move farther from their ideals. If they still have no chance at winning they should move even farther from their ideals. If you have to, and this looks like where Rand is at now, you may have to choose to abandon all your ideals, in order to win.

The important thing is that you win.

The even more important thing is that you vote, a lot.

+rep for a well thought out, pragmatic approach, to making effective change
Click to expand...
Why is the trolling on RPF of such low quality? Shoo, men are talking.
 
ThePaleoLibertarian said:
Libertarians need to treat their complete and utter political impotence as a problem to be fixed, not a fucking badge of honor.

"We want every liberty candidate to be a purely ideological libertarian, preferably a Rothbardian!"

Well, that's great; you've just rendered your own movement irrelevant and ineffectual. There may be a time when a radical libertarian candidate can actually work on the national stage, but that time is not now. Leftism and statism is the modern status quo. If Rand Paul stuck to his father's guns, he'd get the same amount of support that Ron did and we'll get fucking Jeb Bush, or someone equally horrendous. The next ten years are extremely important. People are sick of neoconservatism and the republican party is having an identity crisis. The GOP will probably never be purely libertarian, but we have more influence than ever. We have an opportunity to be the major players in what the American right wing is going to be in the 21st century. If we fail, there will be no more right in America. There will be an entity called the right, but it will be rightist in name only. The "conservatives" of today are the liberals of a generation ago. We have the opportunity to recreate a real, principled right wing that hasn't existed in this country since the post-WWII era. Libertarians need to get out of their ivory tower and take a serious dose of realpolitik.
Click to expand...

Well said

bxm042 said:
Yes, they need to take an approach closer to what Rand is doing. They need to move away from their ideals, so they have a chance at success. If after doing this, they still have no chance at winning, they should move farther from their ideals. If they still have no chance at winning they should move even farther from their ideals. If you have to, and this looks like where Rand is at now, you may have to choose to abandon all your ideals, in order to win.

The important thing is that you win.

The even more important thing is that you vote, a lot.

+rep for a well thought out, pragmatic approach, to making effective change
Click to expand...

Remain pure --> lose election --> gain nothing = stupid
Sell out completely --> win election --> gain nothing = stupid
Sell out just enough to win --> win election --> gain something = Rand

P.S.

bxm042 said:
If you have to, and this looks like where Rand is at now, you may have to choose to abandon all your ideals, in order to win.
Click to expand...

Really? It looks to you like Rand is abandoning all of his ideals?

His only sell-outs (arguably) have been on foreign policy; where's he's shifted from pure non-interventionism to - gasp -being merely the least hawkish person in Washington. Neocon! Neocon! :rolleyes: How about, well, any other issue at all? Economic issues, civil liberties issues...where's this grand sell-out? Did I miss the press conference where Rand praised the Fed and called for more NSA funding? ...or are you guilty of obscene hyperbole?
 
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Jeremy said:
It kind of does if Rand wins the nomination and the LP has their own candidate.
Click to expand...

The LP will always have a candidate, even if Badnarik won the GOP nomination.
The LP is a stickler for the rules, and the rules state that a candidate will be nominated, and how.
 
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