Tom Woods: My Memories of Jesse Benton

[LibertyEagle]

i regard myself as a happy man, pretty much, believe it or not.

Except for the fact that you are a woman.

 

[helmuth_hubener]

helmuth_hubener, with all due respect you live in a world that simply does not exist.

This is just a misunderstanding on your part. I actually agree with what you're saying in this post. I do not think that my policy recommendations are actually going to be enacted! I do not think that politicians are going to save us. Nor even be decent human beings. I do not think that would be a realistic expectation. Look at their history.

You are supporting an alternative that is not practical in today's world where we in the liberty wing are not only facing opposition from the moderates within our own party, but from the left in the Democratic party as well.

Again, I agree it's not going to happen. Rather, plundering will continue to increase and increase and increase in every state in every year in every way for the foreseeable future. That is fairly obvious.

The reality of the situation is that we have some real quality people in office currently who can work to undo the 100 years of government growth that we have experienced at the federal level. The person you are looking for who will act as you wish, simply does not exist - or if they do, they will never be elected to office.

Ron Paul got elected. He is, however, the exception to the rule. So I essentially agree with you: sociopaths have a competitive advantage in our mass social democracy. Bad people have an advantage. Virtually all elected officials, especially on a national level, are always going to be bad people. That cannot change. That is built in to the logic of the system.

The liberty wing of the GOP is a minority. We need to increase our numbers substantially, before we can make headway. Maybe one day there will be a congress filled with Ron Pauls and a Ron Paul in the white house, and your realization can come to fruition. But we simply do not have that, nor will we in any time in the near future.

I completely agree.

None of this seems to challenge my basic assertions. These assertions are:

1) There are various bad things the gov't does which are contrary to liberty. I am guessing you agree with this.
2) Reagan supported, defended, and increased these bad things during his entire career. Since you agree with 1), if you persist in loving Reagan you must disagree with this.

So, to convince you (and mostly others) that loving Reagan is an error, I mention fact about Reagan having supported ever-larger budgets as California governor. This is indisputably true. He signed them all. None were passed overriding his veto. Under Reagan, taxes went up, spending went up, and debt went up. This is bad.

Presumably you agree that taxes, spending, and debt are bad. Do you? If so, now you have a choice: admit that Reagan was bad, or do not admit Reagan was bad.

The choice should really be pretty easy.

 

[low preference guy]

Except for the fact that you are a woman.

shut up, missy.

 

[CaptLouAlbano]

Presumably you agree that taxes, spending, and debt are bad. Do you? If so, now you have a choice: admit that Reagan was bad, or do not admit Reagan was bad.

The choice should really be pretty easy.

I believe that Reagan was a good man in a bad system, and did the best he could do in his time as governor despite the opposition against him. I think Paul believed that as well, which is why he supported him in 76 and 80. I believe that he was compromised during his first term as President, in large part because he made so many concessions within his cabinet to get support from the moderate wing of the party. I also believe that he felt that he was just the beginning of a fundamental return to conservatism in the party and in the nation as a whole, and that Bush brought that to a screeching halt.

 

[LibertyEagle]

Now we are going to have the pro-GOP crowd sticking up for Reagan and attacking Rothbard. Fantastic. Maybe after that we can defend George Bush saying that if he didn't have a Democrat Congress his last 2 years he would have prevented the recession.

How are you defining "the pro-GOP crowd"? Is this anyone who plans to continue trying to get liberty candidates elected through the Republican Party? I hope not.

I think the important thing to remember about Reagan is that people voted for him because they liked what he SAID. Most, even today, don't realize that he didn't actually do many of the things he talked about. That's important, because his talk was very good and was actually quite aligned with what many of us are fighting for today. We just need someone that not only has the talk, but has the walk too. The voters unfortunately didn't realize that Dr. Paul was exactly that, but I firmly believe that if they heard the message as Reagan espoused, they would overwhelmingly vote for it again.

 

[specsaregood]

i regard myself as a happy man, pretty much, believe it or not.

but low preference gal, you said nothing about being happy. Or is it that you consider being happy or being a loser as mutually exclusive?
I've met a fair number of losers that are pretty content and even happy.

 

[low preference guy]

Or is it that you consider being happy or being a loser as mutually exclusive?

of course.

 

[LibertyEagle]

shut up, missy.

 

[specsaregood]

of course.

but, since there is almost always somebody that is better at something than you; does that not make happiness unattainable as one is always a loser in some way? eg: I can't beat usain bolt in a race. Thus i am a loser and thus there is no way I can be happy.

 

[helmuth_hubener]

I believe that Reagan was a good man in a bad system, and did the best he could do in his time as governor despite the opposition against him.

But why do you believe that? Is it because of good things he did? Let me venture a guess: No.

Feel free to prove me wrong. Tell me how Reagan in fact decreased taxes, spending, and debt. Tell me how he did something -- anything -- to further conservative principles as you see them.

No, I think there are no such actions. There just aren't. He didn't do them. He never reduced the government.

Never.

So that raises the question: why do you think he was a good person doing the best he could, when in fact he never did anything good?

 

[Feeding the Abscess]

But why do you believe that? Is it because of good things he did? Let me venture a guess: No.

Feel free to prove me wrong. Tell me how Reagan in fact decreased taxes, spending, and debt. Tell me how he did something -- anything -- to further conservative principles as you see them.

No, I think there are no such actions. There just aren't. He didn't do them. He never reduced the government.

Never.

So that raises the question: why do you think he was a good person doing the best he could, when in fact he never did anything good?

Let's not forget Reagan's time as an FBI informant during the red scare and his time as a spokesman for MIC giant GE, either.

 

[low preference guy]

but, since there is almost always somebody that is better at something than you; does that not make happiness unattainable as one is always a loser in some way? eg: I can't beat usain bolt in a race. Thus i am a loser and thus there is no way I can be happy.

i'm referring to the objectivist notion of happiness, which is a moral virtue (and lack of accidents or tragedies or bad health, which can ruin anything), which means than in the scenario you're painting, having someone be better than you at something doesn't make you unhappy, because that's often beyond your choice, and thus, outside of morality.

 

[TheTexan]

The liberty wing of the GOP is a minority. We need to increase our numbers substantially, before we can make headway. Maybe one day there will be a congress filled with Ron Pauls and a Ron Paul in the white house, and your realization can come to fruition. But we simply do not have that, nor will we in any time in the near future.

One day's not good enough. Not for me. Considering the massive tyranny we face today, that our founders would be fucking disgusted that they gave their lives for the country we have today... it's unacceptable to not call this country what it is, a tyranny, and treat it as such.

Tyranny isn't something you are supposed to put up with "until eventually in the future you can start to gradually remove it." When faced with abject tyranny, you say this shit stops. Now. Not later. Now.

So, no... I don't like your plan of supporting half-assed "liberty" candidates so that maybe decades in the future we can have a substantial amount of liberty candidates that can argue and bicker endlessly with the other half of congress which is no doubt going to be highly principled statist communists, and we'll still get nothing done.

Your plan sucks. There are actions, peaceful actions, that we can take in the here and now to increase our freedom significantly. Free State Project is one such example.

 

[specsaregood]

i'm referring to the objectivist notion of happiness, which is a moral virtue (and lack of accidents or tragedies or bad health, which can ruin anything), which means than in the scenario you're painting, having someone be better than you at something doesn't make you unhappy, because that's often beyond your choice, and thus, outside of morality.

which notion of "loser" are you using?

 

[low preference guy]

which notion of "loser" are you using?

losing at life.

 

[Deborah K]

Except for the fact that you are a woman.

+rep (from one "dimwit" to another) LOL!

 

[specsaregood]

losing at life.

I maintain that i've met happy losers. they aren't usually all that bright though.

 

[low preference guy]

I maintain that i've met happy losers. they aren't usually all that bright though.

didn't you feel like punching them in the face?

 

[low preference guy]

+rep (from one "dimwit" to another) LOL!

i can't help but be charming even when i say insults.

 

[specsaregood]

didn't you feel like punching them in the face?

jealousy tends to have that type reaction, perhaps you just need more time to free your inner retard. or perhaps thats why you have rpf.