Tom Woods: My Memories of Jesse Benton

[parocks]

Are you forgetting all the lying, cheating, and assaults on Ron Paul supporters at state conventions leading up to the RNC?

No, but what's the point exactly that you're trying to make? That was all Romney. Why would you accuse me of "forgetting" that? I mentioned Maine and Ben Ginsberg. If you want to direct your fire more accurately, you fire it at Romney and Ben Ginsberg. Benton, Mitch, Rand, Ron weren't the ones cheating us in state conventions. That was Romney and Ben Ginsberg.

 

[LibertyEagle]

^^THIS.

Then by all means, move your happy ass on. But, perhaps you can leave those of us who have not given up, the hell alone.

 

[parocks]

Well, you know, a quick way to win an argument is to find words like all and never. I'm not trying to make the Republican = good Democrat = bad argument.

Just that the Conservatives have been a part of the Republican Party. Not in charge, and we're fighting against bad guys who do do those bad things you were talking about.

I personally enjoy the fighting. I understand the benefits of working with those who it's not entirely clear are Conservatives.

Never? Bob Conley, and the guy in TN this year. Hell, Kucinich is probably a smaller Government advocate than 90% of the GOP. You know why? Because he would probably cut 80% of the DoD budget, and add at least equal - so, at best, we get a net status quo, but on the other end, you have people wanting to spend even more on wars, DoD, MIC, and then needle around the edges with a few billion at the domestic budget, meaning they would increase the spending of the US Government more than a Kucinich type.

The politicians that would actually make the Potomac a net decrease in our lives can be counted on one hand up there. Both parties are equally atrocious. In fact, I find myself more in disgust with the GOP for the fact that they even dare claim 'freedom or liberty'. It's despicable. I at least know that 99% of the Demo's are honest. If it's one thing I hate it is liars above all else, especially ones that turn off the general populace to libertarian ideals because they falsely believe the lies that spew forth from the GOP. If you go back through history you'll see the GOP spends way more than Democrats, and they do so under the mantle of 'smaller government' so when the obvious shit doesn't pan out, they blame 'small government' or 'liberty' when the problem is GOP is vastly increasing the size and scope of Government, not the other way around.

Boobus doesn't make this distinction - they only see GOP = small Government, fucked up country and Government = need bigger Government. If anything the GOP is much much more harmful than the Democrats.

 

[donnay]

What? I don't get how you're pulling the RNC into this? The Republican National Convention was the Romney show, pure and simple. That was 100% Romney.

I don't follow what you're saying. We're talking about Benton and Mitch and Ron and Rand. The RNC was Romney and only Romney. All that nasty cheating - 100% Romney. The effort was spearheaded by Ben Ginsberg, who was on the floor of the Maine Convention, causing all types of trouble. You might want to focus on the worst as opposed to painting everyone who isn't Ron Paul with the same brush. The specifics of what is happening are important.

You think Romney has that much power? I'll let you in on a little secret--Romney is a puppet, plain and simple. He doesn't pull strings, because he is on strings. The two party system is corrupted to the teeth. You cannot work within a corrupt system. It doesn't work that way--there is no way the power brokers are going to relinquish that power without a fight. You and anyone else that thinks this can be done without a fight are simply delusional.

 

[cajuncocoa]

Then by all means, move your happy ass on. But, perhaps you can leave those of us who have not given up, the hell alone.

Since you get your granny panties in a bunch over perceived insults all the time, perhaps you could refrain from throwing them around yourself?

Not to mention your authoritarian "get out of my house" attitude. It's not your house.

 

[cajuncocoa]

Who is "they"? There have always been multiple factions in the GOP. Libertarian-conservatives were one of those factions.


Reagan ran on Goldwater's platform and that is what people across the political spectrum voted for.


It sounds like it is you who needs to wake up.

They: the GOP establishment.
Yes, I know there are multiple factions whose votes they are happy to have...but they will never accept a libertarian-leaning conservative leading the party.
I already acknowledged that Reagan ran on Goldwater's platform, and that is what people (including me) voted for...but that's not how he governed. (Please read what I post rather than making knee-jerk replies).
No, it really is you and parocks (and a few others) who need to wake up.

 

[parocks]

Well, I'm not arguing that Romney is or is not a puppet.

Romney has been a close friend of Benjamin Netanyahu for 36 years. 36 years is a long long time. And Romney's resume is really really thin.

If we're look at puppets, look there. Don't look at the RNC. The RNC itself is a bunch of elected people. We have 2 Ron Paul RNC in Maine right now.
And Preibus is not the puppetmaster here.

For all practical purposes, it's 100% Romney. Unless you want to talk about Benjamin Netanyahu and whoever thought that those 2 buddies would be a great team in 36 years.

And I want to add that yes, a fight is assumed.

You think Romney has that much power? I'll let you in on a little secret--Romney is a puppet, plain and simple. He doesn't pull strings, because he is on strings. The two party system is corrupted to the teeth. You cannot work within a corrupt system. It doesn't work that way--there is no way the power brokers are going to relinquish that power without a fight. You and anyone else that thinks this can be done without a fight are simply delusional.

 

[donnay]

They: the GOP establishment.
Yes, I know there are multiple factions whose votes they are happy to have...but they will never accept a libertarian-leaning conservative leading the party.
I already acknowledged that Reagan ran on Goldwater's platform, and that is what people (including me) voted for...but that's not how he governed. (Please read what I post rather than making knee-jerk replies).
No, it really is you and parocks (and a few others) who need to wake up.

And when Reagan tried to do what is right, he got shot. After he got shot is when he did not govern as he promised. This was my turning point--the red pill. It was the catalyst that started my journey down the rabbit hole.

 

[liberty2897]

Well, I'm not arguing that Romney is or is not a puppet.

Romney has been a close friend of Benjamin Netanyahu for 36 years. 36 years is a long long time. And Romney's resume is really really thin.

If we're look at puppets, look there. Don't look at the RNC. The RNC itself is a bunch of elected people. We have 2 Ron Paul RNC in Maine right now.
And Preibus is not the puppetmaster here.

For all practical purposes, it's 100% Romney. Unless you want to talk about Benjamin Netanyahu and whoever thought that those 2 buddies would be a great team in 36 years.

parocks, why all the top-posting? It is confusing.

 

[sailingaway]

What are you talking about? Ron Paul is in charge of his campaign. Benton was a functionary who would be fired if Ron Paul wasn't happy with him.

The decision was made, in February, to pull the punches. Onc can argue, I suppose, that it was Benton's fault, but it's ultimately Ron Paul's decision. And the decisions were likely made to protect Rand, mostly, because "spreading the message of liberty" isn't really that big a deal. Conservatives are 40%. What is rare are Conservative politicians, and when we have one we like, who could run in 4,8,12,16 years, it might be better not to go all scorched earth. Although I do like scorched earth. And so does Romney, and Ron Paul doesn't, and Romney won and we lost.

Oh please. Give one sign, ever, that Ron was a hands on manager. I can point to NUMEROUS statements in interviews that he left the campaign to the campaign and just 'did what he did'.

 

[parocks]

They: the GOP establishment.
Yes, I know there are multiple factions whose votes they are happy to have...but they will never accept a libertarian-leaning conservative leading the party.
I already acknowledged that Reagan ran on Goldwater's platform, and that is what people (including me) voted for...but that's not how he governed. (Please read what I post rather than making knee-jerk replies).
No, it really is you and parocks (and a few others) who need to wake up.

We know this. We don't need to be woken up to something we already know. We are in the process of a FIGHT. A FIGHT that we usually LOSE. This is not a secret. We know this. But our home is in the Republican Party. And we just need to win more often, fight better, fight harder, fight smarter. But there is no doubt that we are fighting against the Rockefeller Republicans, and have been for many many years. 1940, Taft vs Wilkie, 1948, Taft vs Dewey, 1952 Taft vs Eisenhower. 1964 Goldwater vs Romney and Rockefeller. 1968 Reagan vs Nixon and Romney. 1976 Reagan vs Ford. 1980 Reagan against Bush. 1992 Buchanan vs Bush 1996 Buchanan vs Dole.

We had our candidates up there, and we usually lost. The elites, international bankers, globalists, msm all are against us. And when we go to battle against the Rockefeller wing, the Rockefeller wing has the resources of the elites, international bankers, globalists, and msm. So, we usually lose. But our home is in the Republican Party.

 

[donnay]

Well, I'm not arguing that Romney is or is not a puppet.

Romney has been a close friend of Benjamin Netanyahu for 36 years. 36 years is a long long time. And Romney's resume is really really thin.

If we're look at puppets, look there. Don't look at the RNC. The RNC itself is a bunch of elected people. We have 2 Ron Paul RNC in Maine right now.
And Preibus is not the puppetmaster here.

For all practical purposes, it's 100% Romney. Unless you want to talk about Benjamin Netanyahu and whoever thought that those 2 buddies would be a great team in 36 years.

The RNC is part of the system! The system is corrupt. It's rigged! It makes no difference if it's Romney or Obama. It's whomever the PTB want it to be.

 

[parocks]

Oh please. Give one sign, ever, that Ron was a hands on manager. I can point to NUMEROUS statements in interviews that he left the campaign to the campaign and just 'did what he did'.

I'm not going to argue this point. I have very little information about what actually did happen on the campaign level. I guess I just thought that Ron Paul was aware of his surroundings, and had a general clue what was going on. You're arguing that he was basically clueless. I supported the guy for President, we all did (presumably), I guess I just assumed that he was paying attention, and the spin to the contrary was just spin.

 

[parocks]

The RNC is part of the system! The system is corrupt. It's rigged! It makes no difference if it's Romney or Obama. It's whomever the PTB want it to be.

Why this level of argumentation? Certainly we could all type thousands of words about how and in what ways the system is rigged.

The point is - this was done by Team Romney to benefit Romney. Ben Ginsberg was telling those people what to do. That's where you should be pointing fingers.

Romney, Ben Ginsberg, Benjamin Netanyahu. Those are 3 names to chew on.

 

[parocks]

parocks, why all the top-posting? It is confusing.

yeah, well.

 

[parocks]

And when Reagan tried to do what is right, he got shot. After he got shot is when he did not govern as he promised. This was my turning point--the red pill. It was the catalyst that started my journey down the rabbit hole.

You're older than me.

You do know that John Hinckley Sr was a major contributor to Bush in 1980, and that Neil Bush had to cancel dinner plans with the Hinckleys because of the shooting.

 

[Anti Federalist]

And when Reagan tried to do what is right, he got shot. After he got shot is when he did not govern as he promised. This was my turning point--the red pill. It was the catalyst that started my journey down the rabbit hole.

This is crucial.

Does anybody really think that Reagan was shot by a lone nut who wanted to impress Jodie Foster?

 

[Anti Federalist]

You're older than me.

You do know that John Hinckley Sr was a major contributor to Bush in 1980, and that Neil Bush had to cancel dinner plans with the Hinckleys because of the shooting.

There you go.

 

[parocks]

There you go.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Hinckley,_Jr.#Bush.E2.80.93Hinckley_family_connection

 

[liberty2897]

You're older than me.

You do know that John Hinckley Sr was a major contributor to Bush in 1980, and that Neil Bush had to cancel dinner plans with the Hinckleys because of the shooting.

I was young at that point in time (the shooting), so I don't remember too much of the details. Thanks for the info. Sounds like some interesting reading.

Sorry about the jab on top-posting. I've done it myself before. It really is hard to read from the bottom up though.