Tom Tancredo: Ron Paul's Amnesty With An Asterisk

Disclaimer: This article is Defending Ron Paul.


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NumbersUSA awarded Ron Paul a failing grade for his constitutionalist stance on illegal immigration, because of his libertarian approach to the problem.​


Anti-Illegal Immigration Group Awards an "F" to Ron Paul


Joe Wolverton, II | The New American
09 May 2011

It's weird. I see threads like this and I wonder to myself, "is Ron really in a corner here?" The more I research the more I realize, "nope". This is what's great about RP. When they fight him on his ideas they will lose, as the above article points out.
 
Again, the whole immigration issue is another case of treating a symptom rather than the illness itself. Instead of looking at the policies of the elites that caused this whole mess in the first place (the drug war, and the welfare state), we're being tricked by these same people into trying to "solve" the immigrant problem through more police state measures like eVerify, militarizing the border, and turning the USA into East Berlin. End the misbegotten gov't programs that sparked the mass influx and most of the people who entered illegally with criminal intentions will simply leave.

The elites are playing the Hegelian Dialectic on us big-time, and it's working like a charm.

For everyone wanting Ron to address the border issues, this is the answer. He's attacking the underlying cause of the disease, not the symptoms.
 
Even if you end the welfare state & abolish minimum wage laws, immigrants will still pour into this country. Someone on this forum posted a statistic a year ago that something like... a billion people around the world would seriously consider moving to America. We would basically be swarmed by a bunch of people who don't understand Anglo-Celtic culture, won't speak english, will vote for big government policies, will vote for politicians (Democrats) who will restore minimum wage and the welfare state, etc... It would be even worse in an Anarcho-Capitalist society, where Nationalistic ethnicities would form together and build their own governments and align with their homeland. I could easily see the ethnocentric Chinese and Mexicans doing this.

This country would go to hell in no time. Granted, Ron Paul never came out and said he supported open borders, but I know RP fairly well. He is way more radical than he leads on... and he always hinted he was pro-immigration.

He needs to go back to his 2007/2008 ideology. Take the troops out of Afghanistan, Iraq, Europe, Japan and put them on the Mexican-American border. This asterisk card bullshit is never going to work. It's basically open borders.


Just look at California. It was a Tea Party year and the Republicans got their ass kicked. Even my so-called Liberal state of Massachusetts went to the Republicans this year. These Hispanic immigrants, legal & illegal, just vote Democrat. I read a statistic where something like 70% of them said will ONLY vote for a Dem. Our country has a serious problem. And it's not just an illegal immigration problem. It's an IMMIGRATION problem. Until this is addressed, I don't know if I can support RP like I did before.

And yeah, yeah I know ending the War on Drugs, government handouts, farm subsidies, and welfare would solve a lot of problems. But consider the fact that..


A) This won't happen unless there was a major crisis and the American people were ready for Libertarian radicalism.

B) This still doesn't change the voting habits of the immigrants. Who, like I pointed out before, generally vote for big-gubmint Dems.

C) They're still an alien element in our society, and diversity leads only to racism and tension. How are immigrants benefiting our society? We need to take a much more conservative approach to the immigration issue like what Denmark is doing. They're only allowing in immigrants who will benefit their nation and assimilate.

D) What about the American nation? If we had open borders in a Libertarian society, all of our unique cultures would evaporate basically overnight, as the immigrant hoards flooded into every state. Southern culture? Gone. New England culture? Gone. It reminds me of when Ben Franklin was complaining about the German immigrants coming into to America. And they were actually good at assimilating and looked & acted generally like the English/Scots-Irish population. They even had the same religion. Just imagine what Ben Franklin would say today...

E) Even if we lived in an Anarcho-Capitalist, Anarcho-Socialist, Mutualist, or whatever stateless society-- immigrants will still retain a huge loyalty to their motherland. Chinese immigrants will more likely form a new [voluntary] government on American soil and seek alliance with their homeland. Mexicans will try to fulfill their La Raza fantasies and do the same. The idea of Anarchy is simply impractical.
 
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Even if you end the welfare state & abolish minimum wage laws, immigrants will still pour into this country. Someone on this forum posted a statistic a year ago that something like... a billion people around the world would seriously consider moving to America. We would basically be swarmed by a bunch of people who don't understand Anglo-Celtic culture, won't speak english, will vote for big government policies, will vote for politicians (Democrats) who will restore minimum wage and the welfare state, etc... It would be even worse in an Anarcho-Capitalist society, where Nationalistic ethnicities would form together and build their own governments and align with their homeland. I could easily see the ethnocentric Chinese and Mexicans doing this.

This country would go to hell in no time. Granted, Ron Paul never came out and said he supported open borders, but I know RP fairly well. He is way more radical than he leads on... and he always hinted he was pro-immigration.

He needs to go back to his 2007/2008 ideology. Take the troops out of Afghanistan, Iraq, Europe, Japan and put them on the Mexican-American border. This asterisk card bullshit is never going to work. It's basically open borders.



Just look at California. It was a Tea Party year and the Republicans got their ass kicked. Even my so-called Liberal state of Massachusetts went to the Republicans this year. These Hispanic immigrants, legal & illegal, just vote Democrat. I read a statistic where something like 70% of them said will ONLY vote for a Dem. Our country has a serious problem. And it's not just an illegal immigration problem. It's an IMMIGRATION problem. Until this is addressed, I don't know if I can support RP like I did before.

And yeah, yeah I know ending the War on Drugs, government handouts, farm subsidies, and welfare would solve a lot of problems. But consider the fact that..


A) This won't happen unless there was a major crisis and the American people were ready for Libertarian radicalism.

B) This still doesn't change the voting habits of the immigrants. Who, like I pointed out before, generally vote for big-gubmint Dems.

C) They're still an alien element in our society, and diversity leads only to racism and tension. How are immigrants benefiting our society? We need to take a much more conservative approach to the immigration issue like what Denmark is doing. They're only allowing in immigrants who will benefit their nation and assimilate.

D) What about the American nation? If we had open borders in a Libertarian society, all of our unique cultures would evaporate basically overnight, as the immigrant hoards flooded into every state. Southern culture? Gone. New England culture? Gone. It reminds me of when Ben Franklin was complaining about the German immigrants coming into to America. And they were actually good at assimilating and looked & acted generally like the English/Scots-Irish population. They even had the same religion. Just imagine what Ben Franklin would say today...

E) Even if we lived in an Anarcho-Capitalist, Anarcho-Socialist, Mutualist, or whatever stateless society-- immigrants will still retain a huge loyalty to their motherland. Chinese immigrants will more likely form a new [voluntary] government on American soil and seek alliance with their homeland. Mexicans will try to fulfill their La Raza fantasies and do the same. The idea of Anarchy is simply impractical.

+1

Almost everything I'd've said.

Yes, America doesn't have an "illegal immigration problem" but an "IMMIGRATION PROBLEM", we're past 300 million how many more before we'll say enough? And at this rate, how long will we be able to keep our living standards as a country, if all the new entrants keep voting socialist? I think the US citizenship should be an honor & should only be offered to highly-skilled foreigners & by that, I DON'T mean cabbies & nannies but rather doctors, engineers, scientists, etc who bring irreplaceable talent & value to the country.

Further, as has been said, if immigration continues this way then eventually there're going to be racial & ethnic divisions & that's only going increase tensions & also start a financial tug-of-war for introducing more & more socialist/communist policies; there's a reason why poor people usually vote socialist/communist & there's a reason why Founding Fathers were libertarian so if there's a large third-world influx, then that's not good for libertarianism in this country anyway.

Libertarianism isn't so much about open-borders or sound money or gun-rights or whatever but more than anything else it's about people's right to self-determination & NOT necessarily as individuals but as a group & believe it or not, even though we do talk about individualism a lot, by now, we should know that none of that talk matters one bit if there ain't an army of libertarians willing to stand up & be counted for fellow libertarians & having open borders (in terms of citizenship & birthright), whether we've welfare or not, isn't going to help the libertarian cause. Believe it or not, humans are social animals & are largely a "tribalist" species; what are we afterall, if not a "libertarian-tribe"!

So having said all this, I hope Ron Paul takes a strong stand on immigration & birthright citizenship, I'm sure that'll score big with a lot republicans & independents who aren't liking the trend, especially the socialist direction.
 
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National review has picked this up as part of their 'Gary Johnson is the more sophisticated, worldly guy you should back' push. They intentionally smear Ron by saying his views are similar to Gary's plus have 'changed' implying he has caved and isn't principled, then say Gary is better because he has no hard and fast principles what soever. (OK they say he 'balances all factors' but it is the same thing) I have a thread on this in Ron's grassroots forum. http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showth...immigraition-National-Review-just-did-a-piece
 
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