To those who betrayed the movement today

[hopeforamerica]

Here is how a true patriot voted today....

http://www.freedomsphoenix.com/Editorial-Page.htm?InfoNo=040765

Simply awesome

 

[Elwar]

The only person betraying the movement are people like you who attempt to create rifts within the movement by spewing such distate for people who have different strategies for success.

My strategy is to campaign and fund the person who will take away the most freedoms and liberties.

Hold on, you may be thinking this is the complete opposite of what I should be doing...but that's the beauty of it...this is what THEY think as well...see where I'm going with this?

Me neither.

 

[Nathan Hale]

It is an accurate description.
But if you want to go classical, we can use Plato's cave for analogies if you like.
Anyone who lives in a fox news/cable news reality... is living in a matrix.
Don't have a clue what's going on around them.. and vote the way the tube tells them to vote.

Matrix references may be getting old to you... but it never will for me. Its the perfects description... or Plato's cave.

It's not accurate at all. It's classic error to assume that because you believe a certain way that you're right and everyone who doesn't have your perspective on the issues is stuck in "the system".

 

[LibertyEagle]

I voted Paul in the primary! I gave my hard earned money!I spent a year campaigning for Paul!I voted against Jhon Mclame!

Does that mean you voted FOR Obama?

 

[torchbearer]

It's not accurate at all. It's classic error to assume that because you believe a certain way that you're right and everyone who doesn't have your perspective on the issues is stuck in "the system".

It is inaccurate if the 96% of the voters who just voted for Obama and McCain did so out of a indepth research and understanding and supporting of all of their policies, and not because they were the two people the media played in front of them... like the shadows on the back of the cave...
And thus, those two were their only choices... and they believed it. They believed any other vote is wasted.
Think of how ludicrous that is.. and how programmed that info is?
If everyone voted for someone else, someone else could win. So how can you say they won't win, unless your reality reinforces that thought.
The matrix.

They are stuck in a system. Willingly and ignorantly.

 

[Nathan Hale]

It is inaccurate if the 96% of the voters who just voted for Obama and McCain did so out of a indepth research and understanding and supporting of all of their policies, and not because they were the two people the media played in front of them... like the shadows on the back of the cave...
And thus, those two were their only choices... and they believed it. They believed any other vote is wasted.
Think of how ludicrous that is.. and how programmed that info is?
If everyone voted for someone else, someone else could win. So how can you say they won't win, unless your reality reinforces that thought.
The matrix.

They are stuck in a system. Willingly and ignorantly.

You make HUGE assumptions in the above posted material. Even IF people voted for Obama and McCain as a matter of any other vote being wasted, that's not a testament to people being trapped in the matrix, that's a criticism of the way we vote. The lesser of two evils dilemma is a VIABLE problem, because our way of voting creates it. It's not, however, evidence that people are in "the matrix", nor is the fact that they are willing to vote for somebody without reading 200 pages of white paper about them. People have their reasons for voting. I don't see evidence that America votes based on ignorance. You just seem very bitter about your own opinion being in so small a minority. I can sympathize, because I probably share a lot of your opinion. The difference between us is that I give people credit for intelligent thought, and you seem to think that the general population is either stupid or deluded.

 

[torchbearer]

You make HUGE assumptions in the above posted material. Even IF people voted for Obama and McCain as a matter of any other vote being wasted, that's not a testament to people being trapped in the matrix, that's a criticism of the way we vote. The lesser of two evils dilemma is a VIABLE problem, because our way of voting creates it. It's not, however, evidence that people are in "the matrix", nor is the fact that they are willing to vote for somebody without reading 200 pages of white paper about them. People have their reasons for voting. I don't see evidence that America votes based on ignorance. You just seem very bitter about your own opinion being in so small a minority. I can sympathize, because I probably share a lot of your opinion. The difference between us is that I give people credit for intelligent thought, and you seem to think that the general population is either stupid or deluded.

Umm.. the way people vote... is guided by their worldly perception.
You are talking to a sociologist. not a internet basement dweller who pretends to understand stuff.
I've been doing this shit for over 12 years, both in academics.. and in politics.
People are indeed in a matrix... I was indeed in a matrix once myself... even as educated as I am... and being in the libertarian party.. still in the matrix.
My source of worldy info.. and thus the informer of my decision making came from the sources of info most common to me. The tube and AP articles.
I was a Fox News believer.... years ago...
They were the truth of all things... they told it like it is... and that was the truth.
I'm not bitter. I'm realistic. I understand the people around me. I used to be them.
I know where they are at... I know why they vote like they do...
It has been studied as a science. And like a science, those in power play them like puppets bound by the laws of physics.
It is our job to cut the strings. But that analogy is not complete.
We have to convince them to cut their own strings by rejecting the Fox News Reality.

 

[Original_Intent]

Umm.. the way people vote... is guided by their worldly perception.
You are talking to a sociologist. not a internet basement dweller who pretends to understand stuff.
I've been doing this shit for over 12 years, both in academics.. and in politics.
People are indeed in a matrix... I was indeed in a matrix once myself... even as educated as I am... and being in the libertarian party.. still in the matrix.
My source of worldy info.. and thus the informer of my decision making came from the sources of info most common to me. The tube and AP articles.
I was a Fox News believer.... years ago...
They were the truth of all things... they told it like it is... and that was the truth.
I'm not bitter. I'm realistic. I understand the people around me. I used to be them.
I know where they are at... I know why they vote like they do...
It has been studied as a science. And like a science, those in power play them like puppets bound by the laws of physics.
It is our job to cut the strings. But that analogy is not complete.
We have to convince them to cut their own strings by rejecting the Fox News Reality.

:bunchies: the galloping green ??? with teeth approves this message

 

[Nathan Hale]

Umm.. the way people vote... is guided by their worldly perception.

Yes, but their motives for voting are myriad.

You are talking to a sociologist. not a internet basement dweller who pretends to understand stuff.
I've been doing this shit for over 12 years, both in academics.. and in politics.

I'll base my opinion of what you have to say based on the content of what you have to say, not what you claim to be out in the world.

People are indeed in a matrix... I was indeed in a matrix once myself... even as educated as I am... and being in the libertarian party.. still in the matrix.

How convenient.

My source of worldy info.. and thus the informer of my decision making came from the sources of info most common to me. The tube and AP articles.
I was a Fox News believer.... years ago...
They were the truth of all things... they told it like it is... and that was the truth.

Here's the problem. You take in news and information from sources you trust. Other people take in news and information from sources they trust. Perhaps you don't trust the sources they trust, I don't trust the sources that most people trust either. But I have the humility to not assume that I'm right and they're wrong. I acknowledge that I place faith in my sources just as they place faith in their sources.

I'm not bitter. I'm realistic. I understand the people around me. I used to be them.
I know where they are at... I know why they vote like they do...

People vote for a million different reasons. They get their information from a million sources. But you seem to think they are all the same. Well, I was once "like them" too, and now I consider myself just as enlightened as you consider yourself. But I don't begrudge a person their choice of media or reason for voting because at the end of the day it's relative. It's just as likely that we're the ones in the matrix.

It has been studied as a science.

Really? Post a link that shows the science behind people voting for lockstep purposes and getting their information from singular sources.

And like a science, those in power play them like puppets bound by the laws of physics.

You're going to have to explain this last line to me.

It is our job to cut the strings. But that analogy is not complete.
We have to convince them to cut their own strings by rejecting the Fox News Reality.

Right.

 

[sirachman]

Kudos