Times of Israel: ‘When Genocide Is Permissible’

[Constitutional Paulicy]

Times of Israel Article: "When Genocide is Permissible" - Just a Little Too Honest

Times of Israel Article: "When Genocide is Permissible" - Just a Little Too Honest
04.Aug.2014 SCG

Times of Israel has since taken down the original article which defended genocide as a legitimate tactic, but we have the cached version for you to read.

On August 1st, 2014, The Times of Israel posted one of their most honest articles to date. In it, the author openly made the case that in certain circumstances genocide may not only be permissible, but in fact a necessary component of government policy.

The original article was taken down after the internet got hold of it and began spreading it feverishly. However you can still access the cached version of the page here.

The title of the article "When Genocide is Permissible" by itself was bad enough, but this wasn't a question of poor word choice. It was the thesis. This is particularly evident in the closing paragraph:

I will conclude with a question for all the humanitarians out there. Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu clearly stated at the outset of this incursion that his objective is to restore a sustainable quiet for the citizens of Israel. We have already established that it is the responsibility of every government to ensure the safety and security of its people. If political leaders and military experts determine that the only way to achieve its goal of sustaining quiet is through genocide is it then permissible to achieve those responsible goals?

The view point expressed here isn't unique to the author. What's unique is that he seemed to be testing the waters to see if the public was ready to bring the dark side of Zionism out of the closet. He seemed to think that at this juncture in history genocide could go mainstream with little more than a PR makeover. Unfortunately this delusion is not entirely understandable considering the cultural context within Israel. When you live in a society where crowds hilltops and cheer after each bomb as Gaza is obliterated, you might start to believe that everyone is ok with a few massacres here and there, and after all, such thinking is institutionalized in Israeli military doctrine. This article by Haretz further confirms this.

more here... http://scgnews.com/times-of-israel-article-when-genocide-is-permissible-just-a-little-too-honest

 

[robert68]

I have no problems with what this gentleman has written. In fact I've been writing the same argument for a little over a week now in another thread. I would not use the word "genocide" because this is not actually accurate. But the modern concept of war began to emerge in the late 19th century and is part of the idea and growth of the concept of a "new world order".

Here are my recent posts on this topic:

The article reads to me like he's also justifying what Israel is doing in an ethical sense.

Also, Gaza isn't a sovereign state like Japan was in WWII or other countries are that the US bombs with drones.

 

[erowe1]

I have no problems with what this gentleman has written. In fact I've been writing the same argument for a little over a week now in another thread. I would not use the word "genocide" because this is not actually accurate. But the modern concept of war began to emerge in the late 19th century and is part of the idea and growth of the concept of a "new world order".

Here are my recent posts on this topic:

Do you believe that there exist absolute moral laws?

 

[Number19]

Do you believe that there exist absolute moral laws?

Probably not, although I reserve the right to change my answer. I simply haven't given much thought to this on an international scale. I would ask: who gets to decide these moral codes, or put another way, whose moral codes do you select to be "absolute" ; and who's going to enforce these "absolute" moral codes.

I would say there are moral codes that individuals chose to abide by according to their own conscience. To use force to impose morality on others would be contrary to my libertarian beliefs.

Throughout history, it has been the victors in war who has gotten the "right" to impose upon the losers. It has been common for the political and economic strong to initiate war and conquest to spread their belief. Today, is it "right" to impose sanctions and blackmail to achieve political and moral goals? As libertarians, do we support a government with the power to do such things? I don't.

In this article, the word "genocide" is that of the author. Hamas and other Muslim extremists are the only ones publicly calling for the extinction of their enemy. The word cannot be applied to Jews, as a formal stated policy, to my knowledge.

 

[pcosmar]

Hamas and other Muslim extremists are the only ones publicly calling for the extinction of their enemy. .

No they are not,, They are calling for an end to Zionism,,and an end to the STATE of Israel.

There are Jewish Palestinians that call for an end to the state. There are Jews that oppose Zionism.
They are not proposing genocide,, but the death of a political system/philosophy.

 

[Number19]

The article reads to me like he's also justifying what Israel is doing in an ethical sense...

Within the context of this thread, it is natural to interpret this article within this narrow context, and the author certainly composes his thoughts within this context. But the article has a broader context on the very nature of war; and can currently be applied, as well, to the Ukraine.

 

[pcosmar]

Within the context of this thread, it is natural to interpret this article within this narrow context, and the author certainly composes his thoughts within this context. But the article has a broader context on the very nature of war; and can currently be applied, as well, to the Ukraine.

Oh they are related. The Kiev Nazis have an identical ideology to the Zionists.

 

[Number19]

No they are not,, They are calling for an end to Zionism,,and an end to the STATE of Israel.

There are Jewish Palestinians that call for an end to the state. There are Jews that oppose Zionism.
They are not proposing genocide,, but the death of a political system/philosophy.

"...The Day of Judgment will not come about until Muslims fight Jews and kill them. Then, the Jews will hide behind rocks and trees, and the rocks and trees will cry out: O Muslim, there is a Jew hiding behind me, come and kill him...".

 

[robert68]

...

In this article, the word "genocide" is that of the author. Hamas and other Muslim extremists are the only ones publicly calling for the extinction of their enemy. The word cannot be applied to Jews, as a formal stated policy, to my knowledge.

You’re terminology, and therefore argument, is not libertarian. First of all, “Hamas” doesn’t represent a state in international law. Hamas is simply a political party in a concentration camp of Israel’s making and control.

Secondly, “Hamas” doesn’t represent “one side” or all of the 1 million or so inhabitants of Gaza in any libertarian sense. And btw, no Jewish group represents all Jews. Such terminologies are collectivist.

 

[pcosmar]

"...The Day of Judgment will not come about until,,

OH, there will be a war there.
A truly cataclysmic War.

and it will be centered on Jerusalem.

There are some serious powers insuring that it happens.

It is often referred to as Armageddon. (though there are at least two Armageddons).

I expect the war will bring about the One World government. Likely the Anti-christ will be a peacemaker.
And his throne will be in Jerusalem.

 

[heavenlyboy34]

You’re terminology, and therefore argument, is not libertarian. First of all, “Hamas” doesn’t represent a state in international law. Hamas is simply a political party in a concentration camp of Israel’s making and control.

Secondly, “Hamas” doesn’t represent “one side” or all of the 1 million or so inhabitants of Gaza in any libertarian sense. And btw, no Jewish group represents all Jews. Such terminologies are collectivist.

An excellent point that is not well understood in the West. The Jews have just about always been divided against themselves by ethnic, religious, philosophical, political, and other big lines. There is no one thing that can be called "Judaism". The exact nature and origin of this conflict are lost to the mists of history, but there is enough literature about it and the nature of ethnic Jewish societies to say it's real.

 

[enhanced_deficit]

... Hamas and other Muslim extremists are the only ones publicly calling for the extinction of their enemy. ...

Evenif you overlook the fact that Israel created Hamas because it was afraid of secular/Christian led groups like PLFP/PLO & aimed to divide Palestinians and that US based Zionists are currently supporting Muslim extremists elsewhere in mideast, what you stated is not true:


Palestinian Christian leader in Canada: Shoot Israeli Jews if they don’t leave Jerusalem

Terrorism's Christian Godfather; Checking in for a flight has never been the same since 1967

 

[enhanced_deficit]

Why Obama's close friend Netanyahu opposes freedom for Palestinians?

U.N. Repeals Its '75 Resolution Equating Zionism With Racism

 

[OReich]

Why Obama's close friend Netanyahu opposes freedom for Palestinians?

Well ehnahnced_deficit, this may be hard to explain to you since you deny the Holocaust and lie that Israel created Hamas and ISIS, but Mosab Hassan Yousef says that "pushing for a Palestinian state is a fantasy. It is impossible. Israel is not going to give Palestinians free borders because no Israelis will agree to another holocaust. Why push for things that are not going to take place, and [in doing so] encourage terrorism and violence? Let’s try to avoid Hamas, let Israel finish the job of fighting them, and leave the Palestinian people out of this problem. To go and push for a Palestinian state right now – this is playing with fire." Mossab Hassan Yousef defected from Hamas, his father was the founder of Hamas (Gaza's govt., funded by Iran, promises to kill all the Jews), and and early leader in the Muslim Brotherhood from the 1930's, which Hamas is a member of. Yousef is named after Hassan al-Banna, the founder of the Muslim Brotherhood in the 1930's. This man could have been the leader in Gaza, but he didn't want to spend his life murdering Jews with Iranian rockets. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...e-is-a-fantasy-says-son-of-Hamas-founder.html

Here's a video of Yousef explaining Palestinian/Islamic philosophy to an Israeli reporter who would never dare say these things. "I'm coming from the household that started somehow the Islamic Sunni revolution. What we are seeing right now in Egypt, the Muslim Brotherhood, my father was from the early leaders from this movement that's happening right now."



The Palestinians can't have their apartheid, sexist Sharia law dictatorship just yet because their govt., and every govt. they've ever had, has attacked and tried to destroy Israel as its #1 purpose for existence. Israel has offered Palestine their own state for their entire history, but Palestine and their Muslim allies invaded Israel repeatedly since before the occupation began in 1967. Gaza's Hamas government (funded and armed by Iran) promises to kill all the Jews (just like Iran-backed Hezbollah in Lebanon), just like Palestine's 1948 leader al-Husseini who was in the Nazi SS (recruiting North Africans for genocide).

 

[jmdrake]

Well ehnahnced_deficit, this may be hard to explain to you since you deny the Holocaust and lie that Israel created Hamas and ISIS, but Mosab Hassan Yousef says that "pushing for a Palestinian state is a fantasy.

So do you believe Ron Paul lied as well?

 

[jmdrake]

I would appreciate a link to this information, if possible. I'm reasonably well educated in history but this is one that I've never run across.

http://www.nuclearfiles.org/menu/ke...iroshima-nagasaki/opinion-eisenhower-bomb.htm
Dwight Eisenhower's view on using the Atomic Bomb

"In 1945 ... , Secretary of War Stimson visited my headquarters in Germany, [and] informed me that our government was preparing to drop an atomic bomb on Japan. I was one of those who felt that there were a number of cogent reasons to question the wisdom of such an act.... During his recitation of the relevant facts, I had been conscious of a feeling of depression and so I voiced to him my grave misgivings, first on the basis of my belief that Japan was already defeated and that dropping the bomb was completely unnecessary, and second because I thought that our country should avoid shocking world opinion by the use of a weapon whose employment was, I thought, no longer mandatory as a measure to save American lives. It was my belief that Japan was, at that very moment, seeking some way to surrender with a minimum loss of 'face.' The Secretary was deeply perturbed by my attitude, almost angrily refuting the reasons I gave for my quick conclusions."

 

[amy31416]

Well ehnahnced_deficit, this may be hard to explain to you since you deny the Holocaust and lie that Israel created Hamas and ISIS, but Mosab Hassan Yousef says that "pushing for a Palestinian state is a fantasy. It is impossible. Israel is not going to give Palestinians free borders because no Israelis will agree to another holocaust. Why push for things that are not going to take place, and [in doing so] encourage terrorism and violence? Let’s try to avoid Hamas, let Israel finish the job of fighting them, and leave the Palestinian people out of this problem. To go and push for a Palestinian state right now – this is playing with fire." Mossab Hassan Yousef defected from Hamas, his father was the founder of Hamas (Gaza's govt., funded by Iran, promises to kill all the Jews), and and early leader in the Muslim Brotherhood from the 1930's, which Hamas is a member of. Yousef is named after Hassan al-Banna, the founder of the Muslim Brotherhood in the 1930's. This man could have been the leader in Gaza, but he didn't want to spend his life murdering Jews with Iranian rockets. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...e-is-a-fantasy-says-son-of-Hamas-founder.html

Here's a video of Yousef explaining Palestinian/Islamic philosophy to an Israeli reporter who would never dare say these things. "I'm coming from the household that started somehow the Islamic Sunni revolution. What we are seeing right now in Egypt, the Muslim Brotherhood, my father was from the early leaders from this movement that's happening right now."



The Palestinians can't have their apartheid, sexist Sharia law dictatorship just yet because their govt., and every govt. they've ever had, has attacked and tried to destroy Israel as its #1 purpose for existence. Israel has offered Palestine their own state for their entire history, but Palestine and their Muslim allies invaded Israel repeatedly since before the occupation began in 1967. Gaza's Hamas government (funded and armed by Iran) promises to kill all the Jews (just like Iran-backed Hezbollah in Lebanon), just like Palestine's 1948 leader al-Husseini who was in the Nazi SS (recruiting North Africans for genocide).

A good solution to the Jewish people's past woes is to steal land, create an apartheid state and perpetrate a holocaust-lite on indigenous people of the land. Lie about their own nuclear program, steal nuclear materials and secrets?

Get a grip. You have no idea, nor do you seem to care, about anyone but Israeli Jews. Those other people are human beings, just as the Jews who went through their holocaust were.

And Israel's gov't has created a LOT of extremism in the Arab world. To deny that is to deny reality--the more you push people, the more they'll push back.

What do you think? Should Palestinians be your humble servants and let Israel's gov't walk all over them? You, and many Israelis have become what you hate the most--you're fascists, the only difference being that you aren't the target this time. The Jews in the Warsaw ghettos who fought back were heroes--Palestinians in the territories who fight back are terrorists?

Use yer brains.

 

[OReich]

A good solution to the Jewish people's past woes is to steal land, create an apartheid state and perpetrate a holocaust-lite on indigenous people of the land. Lie about their own nuclear program, steal nuclear materials and secrets?

Get a grip. You have no idea, nor do you seem to care, about anyone but Israeli Jews. Those other people are human beings, just as the Jews who went through their holocaust were.

And Israel's gov't has created a LOT of extremism in the Arab world. To deny that is to deny reality--the more you push people, the more they'll push back.

What do you think? Should Palestinians be your humble servants and let Israel's gov't walk all over them? You, and many Israelis have become what you hate the most--you're fascists, the only difference being that you aren't the target this time. The Jews in the Warsaw ghettos who fought back were heroes--Palestinians in the territories who fight back are terrorists?

Use yer brains.

No, YOU need to use your brains, YOU need to absorb some basic knowledge about this conflict. Palestine and the Arabs invaded Israel BEFORE any land was stolen in 1948 (and Muslims stole MORE LAND in the same time period), and BEFORE Israel began occupying the West Bank and Gaza in 1967. Between 1948 and 1967, they had the West Bank and Gaza, they still invaded repeatedly to institute Sharia law over the land. They didn't even set up a government, they prioritized Israel's destruction first. Israel offered back the West Bank and Gaza repeatedly, all the way up to 2000. Palestine responded by murdering 700 civilians in suicide bombings. Get this through your head: Palestine's position was never to live at peace with Israel. Israel is a secular democracy with equality, Palestinian Sharia law executes ppl for leaving Islam or criticizing Islam, there's no such thing as marital rape, there's no equal rights to prayer. And in Gaza, the Hamas govt. (funded and armed by Iran) promises to kill all the Jews, just like the Palestinian leader in 1948, al-Husseini, who was in the Nazi SS recruiting North Africans for actual genocide.

So when Iran funds and arms TWO terrorist governments that promise to kill all the Jews (Hamas in Gaza and Hezbollah in Lebanon), you don't care. When Israel destroys Iranian rockets, you whine that its genocide. When Gaza teaches its children to kill Jews, and to die trying for propaganda and religious martrydom, you don't care. When they fire rockets from schools and hospitals, you don't care. When Israel destroys a rocket launcher, you whine about genocide.

Its time that you RPF geniuses started holding Palestine to actual standards. Stop invading Israel, stop teaching your kids to kill Jews, just stop it. Then you can have a military. Its very simple. Israel has offered them the West Bank and Gaza since before the occupation even began, you have this conflict upside down.

 

[ChiefJustice]

No, YOU need to use your brains, YOU need to absorb some basic knowledge about this conflict. Palestine and the Arabs invaded Israel BEFORE any land was stolen in 1948 (and Muslims stole MORE LAND in the same time period), and BEFORE Israel began occupying the West Bank and Gaza in 1967. Between 1948 and 1967, they had the West Bank and Gaza, they still invaded repeatedly to institute Sharia law over the land. They didn't even set up a government, they prioritized Israel's destruction first. Israel offered back the West Bank and Gaza repeatedly, all the way up to 2000. Palestine responded by murdering 700 civilians in suicide bombings. Get this through your head: Palestine's position was never to live at peace with Israel. Israel is a secular democracy with equality, Palestinian Sharia law executes ppl for leaving Islam or criticizing Islam, there's no such thing as marital rape, there's no equal rights to prayer. And in Gaza, the Hamas govt. (funded and armed by Iran) promises to kill all the Jews, just like the Palestinian leader in 1948, al-Husseini, who was in the Nazi SS recruiting North Africans for actual genocide.

So when Iran funds and arms TWO terrorist governments that promise to kill all the Jews (Hamas in Gaza and Hezbollah in Lebanon), you don't care. When Israel destroys Iranian rockets, you whine that its genocide. When Gaza teaches its children to kill Jews, and to die trying for propaganda and religious martrydom, you don't care. When they fire rockets from schools and hospitals, you don't care. When Israel destroys a rocket launcher, you whine about genocide.

Its time that you RPF geniuses started holding Palestine to actual standards. Stop invading Israel, stop teaching your kids to kill Jews, just stop it. Then you can have a military. Its very simple. Israel has offered them the West Bank and Gaza since before the occupation even began, you have this conflict upside down.

LOL good joke regarding Palestinian INVASIONS of Israel. Your blind support of Israel and condemnation of the Palestinians is tiresome. Heard the same crap arguments time and time again. No matter the evidence used to refute these people only dig in further.

Israel is the country that invades a poverty stricken and extremely militarily inferior, blockaded Gaza. Israel uses a pretext to "mow the grass" and slaughter Palestinian women and children indiscriminately from the sky if not by land. Families are being destroyed left and right thanks to the IDF.

Is it really such a surprise that the coming generations of Palestinians are saying "Death to Israel"?

If MY home was destroyed by an invader and my family killed, I would certainly harbor a MAJOR grudge against the perpetrator. Perhaps you wouldnt feel the same if it was your family? Would you really be blaming Hamas before the country whose planes destroyed your very livelihood? Especially when your home is totally blockaded and occasionally bombed.

 

[Ronin Truth]

When it's the Jews?