Time to back Gary Johnson?

[Nathan Hale]

Johnson is a weak public speaker and does not have the "moxie" image required to mobilize a voter base. He'd need ALOT of skills work and a superior campaign for me to support him. I agree with him on most of the issues, but, I'm thinking about overall success. Also, if he is a "reluctant candidate", he will get no donations from me. I will only financially support a candidate that truly wants to win from day 1.

I doubt he'd be a reluctant candidate. If he decides to run, he'll probably be the most motivated candidate in the field. This is, after all, a triathlete mountain climber.

I also disagree that he's a weak speaker. I've seen him speak and he does well. He's not a particularly strong public speaker, but IMHO he does better than Ron Paul in the speaking department.

 

[Nathan Hale]

I was liking Gov. Johnson, too, but apparently a few years ago he started dating another woman and left his wife; see http://bit.ly/vfOyT (PDF).

This is nothing like the Sanford thing.

For one, it happened after he left office, which means the scandal factor is eliminated. And after all, it's the scandal that breaks the candidate, not the actual facts of the case.

Second, the two situations are different aside from the overarching similarity of leaving the wife for another woman.

 

[klamath]

This is nothing like the Sanford thing.

For one, it happened after he left office, which means the scandal factor is eliminated. And after all, it's the scandal that breaks the candidate, not the actual facts of the case.

Second, the two situations are different aside from the overarching similarity of leaving the wife for another woman.

Sorry it has nothing to do with scandal, it has to do with cheating on his wife whether he was in office or not. If they didn't get along get a divorce and move on, don't cheat while one partner still thinks they have a marriage.

 

[Njon]

This is nothing like the Sanford thing.

For one, it happened after he left office, which means the scandal factor is eliminated. And after all, it's the scandal that breaks the candidate, not the actual facts of the case.

Second, the two situations are different aside from the overarching similarity of leaving the wife for another woman.

I don't care when it happened. I'm not talking about strategy; I'm talking about character. How am I supposed to trust a guy to hold a high-ranking office when he couldn't even be faithful to the wife he professed to love?

 

[acptulsa]

Well, I don't think I could ever vote for Wayne Allen Root for president, but I'd sure love to see him trounce Harry Reid!!

I hate 'lesser of evils' too, but unfortunately, no one's perfect...

 

[Njon]

Well, I don't think I could ever vote for Wayne Allen Root for president, but I'd sure love to see him trounce Harry Reid!!

And we have a chance to make that happen: http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=197282

 

[acptulsa]

Saw, that Njon. Thanks for posting it!

 

[Nathan Hale]

Sorry it has nothing to do with scandal, it has to do with cheating on his wife whether he was in office or not. If they didn't get along get a divorce and move on, don't cheat while one partner still thinks they have a marriage.

Perhaps that's your opinion, but what sinks the candidate in the public eye is the scandal. Besides which, I don't think we've clearly resolved if Johnson was even cheating - does anybody have a news article from the time that spells it out a little better, the one posted here didn't say much in the way of conclusive evidence that Johnson had an affair while his wife believed they were still a viable couple.

 

[Nathan Hale]

I don't care when it happened. I'm not talking about strategy; I'm talking about character. How am I supposed to trust a guy to hold a high-ranking office when he couldn't even be faithful to the wife he professed to love?

Because a great many people of otherwise high moral standing have a history of infidelity?

Besides the fact that we're not even sure yet if he had an affair. Did the relationship occur while his wife still believed they were a viable couple?

 

[Njon]

Because a great many people of otherwise high moral standing have a history of infidelity?

If someone has a "history of infidelity," that doesn't square with "high moral standing."

Besides the fact that we're not even sure yet if he had an affair. Did the relationship occur while his wife still believed they were a viable couple?

Even if he didn't actually have intercourse with this other woman while married, he still started dating another woman and left his wife; that's bad enough. That's not taking one's marriage vow seriously.

 

[scandinaviany3]

really three candidates to push plus kokesh

Really only paul can be our banner runner now...for 2012.

Then for 2010 since peter isnt seeming to jump in...we have to push rand and simcox...for senate and kokesh for congress given they all three have messages that resonate.

 

[Nathan Hale]

If someone has a "history of infidelity," that doesn't square with "high moral standing."

Sexual infidelity (if such was even the case) is not the line in the sand between good and evil.

Even if he didn't actually have intercourse with this other woman while married, he still started dating another woman and left his wife; that's bad enough. That's not taking one's marriage vow seriously.

So his relationship wasn't physical, he was just getting acquainted with the girl, discovered that he had feelings for her, and left the wife with whom he was growing apart? Not exactly vanishing to Argentina....

 

[klamath]

Sexual infidelity (if such was even the case) is not the line in the sand between good and evil.



So his relationship wasn't physical, he was just getting acquainted with the girl, discovered that he had feelings for her, and left the wife with whom he was growing apart? Not exactly vanishing to Argentina....

Johnson and Sanford both shot themselves down as far as higher office is concerned.
Any effort to try and push either one of them for president is just an effort to get people to pour donnor money down ratholes on wasted campaigns. The good thing is we found out about this stuff early enough that we can concentrate on getting RP to run again or find other viable candidates in time.

 

[Nathan Hale]

Johnson and Sanford both shot themselves down as far as higher office is concerned.
Any effort to try and push either one of them for president is just an effort to get people to pour donnor money down ratholes on wasted campaigns. The good thing is we found out about this stuff early enough that we can concentrate on getting RP to run again or find other viable candidates in time.

How did Johnson shoot himself???

 

[klamath]

How did Johnson shoot himself???

Same way Sanford did. You think just because it didn't cause a lot of noise at the time of his divorce he is clear and free. Wait until a national campaign starts up and every bit of this will be paraded out. Having his exwife tearfully say she is strong and will go on and then die a year later, when paraded in front of the women voters will shut him down hard. A lot of women voters view the candidate choices different. I know a number of women voters that turned away from Fred Thompson when they saw the young age of his wife. Rudy's messy cheating came down hard on his chances as well.

 

[Nathan Hale]

Same way Sanford did. You think just because it didn't cause a lot of noise at the time of his divorce he is clear and free.

Yes. Sanford's scandal will resonate much farther into the future than Johnson's supposed "affair" because it was a public mess that made waves.

Wait until a national campaign starts up and every bit of this will be paraded out. Having his exwife tearfully say she is strong and will go on and then die a year later, when paraded in front of the women voters will shut him down hard.

I doubt it. From the looks of it, Johnson and his wife grew apart, initiated a separation, after which Johnson began seeing someone. Sanford, on the other hand, was involved in a scandalous affair that he attempted to conceal while supposedly on good terms with his wife. These are two totally different cases, and I highly doubt that anybody could use Johnson's tale to turn women voters against him.

A lot of women voters view the candidate choices different. I know a number of women voters that turned away from Fred Thompson when they saw the young age of his wife. Rudy's messy cheating came down hard on his chances as well.

Could you please cite evidence for this? From the look of it Rudy was killed by his poor campaign strategy (first in the nation Florida and on to super tuesday), and Fred Thompson died on the vine because he waited too long to get in the game.

 

[klamath]

Yes. Sanford's scandal will resonate much farther into the future than Johnson's supposed "affair" because it was a public mess that made waves.



I doubt it. From the looks of it, Johnson and his wife grew apart, initiated a separation, after which Johnson began seeing someone. Sanford, on the other hand, was involved in a scandalous affair that he attempted to conceal while supposedly on good terms with his wife. These are two totally different cases, and I highly doubt that anybody could use Johnson's tale to turn women voters against him.



Could you please cite evidence for this? From the look of it Rudy was killed by his poor campaign strategy (first in the nation Florida and on to super tuesday), and Fred Thompson died on the vine because he waited too long to get in the game.

In 3 years people will have forgotten about Sanfords scandal as well until the campaign starts.
If Sanford and Johnson are running and Johnson's people bring up the scandal believe me Sandfords people will bring up Johnson's. It won't be the candidates talking about it themselves but people talking to people.

I personally talked to republican women and saw the reaction to Thompsons wife and Rudy's affairs. I do agree that Rudy ran a terrible campaign stratigy but part of that is he knew he wasn't going to be able to sell himself to the religous right in Iowa. Older Republican women that turnout in high numbers have a hard view on these things.
I do agree with you that Sanfords infidelity will hurt him more than Johnson's infidelity but Jonhson's other past has a bigger chance of turning off Republican voters than Sanford's.



I can't vote for neither because if they can't be honest with their own wives why would I trust them to be honest with me?
Second, since they have badly damaged their potential this way I don't want to waste my hard earned money donating to their campaigns.

Obviously you feel different, anyway time will tell.

 

[Matt Collins]

I'm going to hold him to the same standard I held Clinton to:

If his own family can't trust him, then how can the voters trust him?

 

[james1906]

We need a liberty candidate in 2012 that plays well to the religious right. They go out and vote and they are not going to vote for an adulterer. Just because you personally have no problem with it doesn't mean it's not an issue.

Look at Huckabee. He went from being an also ran to a front runner because he knew how to play to the religious right. RP made a mistake of not playing up his career as a doctor and his 50+ year marriage. He would have gotten some of Huckabee's votes if he did.

 

[Nathan Hale]

In 3 years people will have forgotten about Sanfords scandal as well until the campaign starts.
If Sanford and Johnson are running and Johnson's people bring up the scandal believe me Sandfords people will bring up Johnson's. It won't be the candidates talking about it themselves but people talking to people.

Johnson and Sanford don't come from analogous situations. Sanford was involved in a scandal and illicit affair - Johnson just got a divorce and shacked up with a new girl.

I personally talked to republican women and saw the reaction to Thompsons wife and Rudy's affairs. I do agree that Rudy ran a terrible campaign stratigy but part of that is he knew he wasn't going to be able to sell himself to the religous right in Iowa. Older Republican women that turnout in high numbers have a hard view on these things.

I've talked to Republican women as well on the issue - campaign strategy is my career and my candidates are mostly Republican - and while I would agree that Rudy's situation was detrimental, I didn't hear much of anything about Thompson's wife - but then again Thompson was a non-starter anyway so perhaps it wasn't necessary.

I do agree with you that Sanfords infidelity will hurt him more than Johnson's infidelity but Jonhson's other past has a bigger chance of turning off Republican voters than Sanford's.

Johnson was a remarkably successful and popular governor, even among his state's GOP. If you're talking about the drug issue, that's something we can spin - with groups like Law Enforcement Against Prohibition and their ilk gaining steam, we can switch the paradigm easily away from the "responsible conservatives" vs "mindless hippies" false dichotomy.

That said, I think we have yet to establish Johnson's infidelity. The articles I've read point only to Johnson divorcing his wife and then taking up a new girlfriend. Please, could you post a link that corrects me on this? I think I'm only getting half the story.

I can't vote for neither because if they can't be honest with their own wives why would I trust them to be honest with me?
Second, since they have badly damaged their potential this way I don't want to waste my hard earned money donating to their campaigns.

Obviously you feel different, anyway time will tell.

We'll just have to clear up exactly what Johnson's situation was.