Time For A New Third Party?

Would You Like To See A New Party Like That Described in the OP?

  • Yes, give me policy and sanity, don't care about toilets

    Votes: 7 58.3%
  • No, LP/CP is fine

    Votes: 5 41.7%

  • Total voters
    12
Joined
Mar 6, 2014
Messages
18,553
I'd like to be able to vote for a party which promotes laissez faire, sane foreign policy, and due process, which ignores the culture war, and which welcomes neither fat naked hippies, lunatic Evangelicals, nor people wearing tinfoil headgear. In short, I'd like there to be a libertarian/classical liberal party which Mises wouldn't be embarrassed to be associated with. Is this too much to ask? Especially in this circus of a political environment, I think a sober, policy-focused Classical Liberal Party (or whatever you might call it), which keeps well clear of who-gets-to-use-the-toilet tabloid politics, could do well and be a much more effective pressure group than the LP or CP.
 
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I like these planks especially:

Plank 5 - Decorum: The discussion surrounding the proper role of government in society is one of ideas. As Mises himself pointed out, “Everything that happens in the social world in our time is the result of ideas. Good things and bad things. What is needed is to fight bad ideas.” Ludwig von Mises was a brilliant moral philosopher and an accomplished economist, but above all, he was a gentleman. We intend to conduct ourselves in a way that honors his tradition, while exhibiting the utmost decorum in the battle of hearts and minds.

Plank 6 - Lifestyle Choices: The Mises Caucus takes no stance on personal, cultural, and social preferences. One’s lifestyle is merely an extension of their self-ownership. Thus, no individual can rightfully claim jurisdiction over the lifestyle of another. We assert only that any and all lifestyle choices must accord with the Non-Aggression Principle. As Murray Rothbard once wrote, “Libertarianism does not offer a way of life; it offers liberty, so that each person is free to adopt and act upon his own values and moral principles.”

Plank 7 - Identity Politics: The Mises Caucus categorically rejects all forms of identity politics as nothing more than weaponized tribal collectivism that is antithetical to individualism.

This part concerns me though:

Plank 2 - Self-Determination: The Mises Caucus recognizes that freedom of association manifests itself politically in the form of absolute right of self-determination. The Austro-libertarian tradition favors decentralization - subsidiarity, secession, nullification, localism - and reduction of government wherever possible as a means of expanding choice and competition in governance for all individuals. Mises wrote, “If it were in any way possible to grant this right of self-determination to every individual person, it would have to be done.” To this end, the Mises Caucus favors radical decentralization of, and secession from, all government and political units.

That sounds like anarcho-capitalism, which, whatever your view (I'm a minarchist) is a political non-starter. But even beyond that issue, I'm not sure that reforming the LP is the best strategy, as opposed to starting fresh. Nonetheless, this Mises Caucus is a healthy sign; at least there's some demand for the sort of politics this thread is calling for.
 
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I think it is past time to end the party system. Period. Get rid of the low hanging fruit vote altogether. Make people become informed. Or, at the least, not create impediments to independents.
I didn't see that option.
 
I think it is past time to end the party system. Period. Get rid of the low hanging fruit vote altogether. Make people become informed. Or, at the least, not create impediments to independents.
I didn't see that option.

How would you go about accomplishing that?
 
America has the parties it wants and deserves . I do not . Nor will I . The modern Dem party is the communist party ( about 60 percent of americans ) the mainstream GOP is the socialist party ( about 30 percent of americans ) , give or take 5 to 10 percent .
 
Agreed with the general sentiment by the OP. The party of Johnson, Weld, and Barr is not a lover of liberty, but an opportunistic GOP lite that desperately wants to play with the big boys and seems to sell it's soul each year with these terrible choices. When all is said and done, your average Joe still thinks the LP simply stands for legalizing marijuana and supporting gay marriage. If that is the best the marketing geniuses at the LP could do, clearly it's time to either dramatically improve or find something better.

Although it seems like we need something better than the LP and obviously the GOP/Dems, I think playing the political party game is exactly where the state, corporate lobbyists, and investors want us to channel our anti-state, small government energy. If we play their game, we lose, because we are up against billion dollar industries and institutions with centuries of established footing. As both parties implode and collapse, the playing ground is slowly becoming more even, but we have a long ways to go.

If we want to win, we have to rewrite politics and make people see that their is no choice except to love and promote and live by the tenets of liberty, and anything and everything else is an excess waste of time. How exactly this is done is beyond me, although eradication of the msm and grassroots education of youth is a great start. We always seem to find a way when it is necessary to do so. In the meantime, we get to witness the shitshow.
 
When all is said and done, your average Joe still thinks the LP simply stands for legalizing marijuana and supporting gay marriage.

That seems to be the mantra they're putting down, and that's coming from not.your.average.joe.

Well said. I think at this point 'Libertarian' has too many negative connotations with voters. It's been around long enough that the initial voter reaction is to shrug it off because a Libertarian can never win. We need a Grassroots Party, or a name that will get people excited again. The face we need to have is that of a startup breakaway movement comprised of doers fed up with the 'go with the flow' attitude of the metaphorically dead.
 
For all the bad things said about the LP, that do stand for an immediate 20% reduction in federal spending. IMO, this single point puts them heads and shoulder above the two major parties. I'm still mad at Weld and cannot forgive him for campaigning for HRC on the LP dime.

It may not happen in my lifetime, but someday there will be a party representing fiscal restraint. The LP is the dominant third party in local government. I hope they would be the first third party to have a impact at the federal level. If another third party could break that barrier I would support them as long as they supported fiscal restraint and sane foreign policy. I could hold my nose on most other issues.
 
The crazies have always been a part of party politics. I'm not sure you can get rid of them.
 
We don't get a choice, there are not enough of us and we don't have enough money, unless one or both of those change we are stuck trying to influence whichever party is closest to us and/or is close enough and has a shot at winning, when the GOP implodes we may be able to hijack one of the fragments.

I do not completely agree with the OP's idea of what the ideal party would look like but we will see what options come our way.
 
We don't get a choice, there are not enough of us and we don't have enough money, unless one or both of those change we are stuck trying to influence whichever party is closest to us and/or is close enough and has a shot at winning, when the GOP implodes we may be able to hijack one of the fragments.

I do not completely agree with the OP's idea of what the ideal party would look like but we will see what options come our way.

A minority party the size of the LP (1%), but better managed, could have significant influence on elections without ever winning one.

That should be the initial goal. If the GOP implodes and opportunity beckons, great, but good work can be done regardless.

Agreed with the general sentiment by the OP. The party of Johnson, Weld, and Barr is not a lover of liberty, but an opportunistic GOP lite that desperately wants to play with the big boys and seems to sell it's soul each year with these terrible choices. When all is said and done, your average Joe still thinks the LP simply stands for legalizing marijuana and supporting gay marriage. If that is the best the marketing geniuses at the LP could do, clearly it's time to either dramatically improve or find something better.

Although it seems like we need something better than the LP and obviously the GOP/Dems, I think playing the political party game is exactly where the state, corporate lobbyists, and investors want us to channel our anti-state, small government energy. If we play their game, we lose, because we are up against billion dollar industries and institutions with centuries of established footing. As both parties implode and collapse, the playing ground is slowly becoming more even, but we have a long ways to go.

If we want to win, we have to rewrite politics and make people see that their is no choice except to love and promote and live by the tenets of liberty, and anything and everything else is an excess waste of time. How exactly this is done is beyond me, although eradication of the msm and grassroots education of youth is a great start. We always seem to find a way when it is necessary to do so. In the meantime, we get to witness the shitshow.

As I see it, a minority party like I described above can serve as a base for all kinds of non-political activism. What I'm envisioning is something of a cross between a party, a think-tank, and a PAC. It wouldn't just be about elections. Actually, even when it comes to elections, it might sometimes be better to endorse outside candidates than run our own, as do groups like the NRA, the ACLU, etc.

For all the bad things said about the LP, that do stand for an immediate 20% reduction in federal spending. IMO, this single point puts them heads and shoulder above the two major parties.

The LP's problem is their marketing and organization, not so much their platform.

That seems to be the mantra they're putting down, and that's coming from not.your.average.joe.

Well said. I think at this point 'Libertarian' has too many negative connotations with voters. It's been around long enough that the initial voter reaction is to shrug it off because a Libertarian can never win. We need a Grassroots Party, or a name that will get people excited again. The face we need to have is that of a startup breakaway movement comprised of doers fed up with the 'go with the flow' attitude of the metaphorically dead.

Yep

The crazies have always been a part of party politics. I'm not sure you can get rid of them.

The GOP and Dems manage to keep the crazies tucked away most of the time. There's no reason a libertarian party couldn't.

The LP made a conscious decision to give the crazies a platform as part of their edgy hipster-doofus marketing campaign.

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A Few Other Points

1. This party should be moderate, not in the sense that it compromises its principles, but in the sense that it proposes modest steps in the right direction, rather than demanding everything all at once. For instance, on spending, most of us here would probably like trillions in cuts overnight (I know I would), but a Classical Liberal Party should be looking at something on the order of $100 billion.

2. The Party should be structured so they it's difficult/impossible for outsiders to hijack it. Not just anyone should be able to become a voting party member for purposes of setting platform, nominating candidates, etc. I'm not sure what can be done within the bounds of federal election law though, so that's something to look into further.
 
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To be fair, they could have nominated the guy that paid prostitutes to poop on his face.

In a crazy one-upmanship campaign year you go super crazy! I think he could have gotten 10%. :p But, let's be honest. There really wasn't a viable L.P. candidate and the convention was a shit show.
 
Starting over creates its own problem set. Like building voter networks. I still think LP and CP should merge, or at least cooperate in some organized fashion. If Ron Paul had been on either party's ballot both would have supported him. That there is proof of concept that the differences are not too great.
 
How do you start a political party which promotes freedom that excludes certain people and cultures?

Secondarily, how do you start a political party which promotes freedom that excludes certain people and cultures, then claims to not care about "the culture war"?
 
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Two non sequiturs in as many sentences, ...bravo

How do you start a political party which promotes freedom that excludes certain people and cultures?

There's nothing antithetical to libertarianism in choosing not to associate with certain people.

Secondarily, how do you start a political party which promotes freedom that excludes certain people and cultures, then claims to not care about "the culture war"?

The goal of the proposed party would be to focus on issues that matter, contra culture-war issues.

Hence, the party would not try to appeal to (and/or would actively exclude) people obsessed with the culture war.
 
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