Thomas Massie may delay the bailout... Congress livid with him

[nikcers]

Who says that a human cost exists if the legislation doesn't pass in a timely fashion? You're assuming that.

Its easy to say that there are no unintended consequences to an action. You are thinking small minded.

 

[acptulsa]

I'm curious to know. What is the libertarian response to helping Americans who are in need financially during a difficult time such as this? If you guys don't support a stimulus bill such as this, what is the alternative?

The libertarian response is, don't create difficult times by destroying the economy over something which has, since September, in the U.S., killed 1/15th as many people as the flu has killed.

 

[Theocrat]

Where Pragmatism Fails

I'm a realist. Go back to before the election and read my posts on Trump. But, unlike 'Never-Trumpers,' I've watched what he has accomplished. For the good. And the bad. And if you can't find any good then you are a 'Never-Trumper.'
You like to think about what you would do if you were POTUS. But, you have no idea what is like. Hell, the only one on these boards that has ever gotten anywhere is Glen Bradley, and his tenure, though the epitome of this boards ideals, was redistricted. For his unmovable beliefs.
Trump, more than any POTUS in our time, has tried to dismantle regulations and unfair trade practices. He's set new records in employment. Even now his directives are changing the rules of the alphabet agencies enacted under the Obama administration.
He's facing the prospect of all his gains that started lifting unemployed Americans off welfare, and therefore out of socialism, evaporating.
Sure would like to see how you would fare under these circumstances. But, we won't. Because, at best, you're an armchair quarterback. Let me know when you at least get a state house seat.

First of all, you don't know which offices I've run for, so don't just assume that I'm an "armchair quarterback." I happen to believe in Localism, and just because I haven't been in a race that garners national or state attention doesn't mean that I haven't been out in the field looking for votes before.

Second of all, being a realist doesn't excuse advocating socialism, if you want to be a supporter of Ron Paul Forums. That name means something. I really don't care what Trump has supposedly done to reduce regulations, lower taxes, or anything else because all of his fiscal and monetary tactics assume that the Federal Reserve has legitimacy in the marketplace. Until we chop off the head of that snake, Trump's so-called conservative moves are nothing more than his moving a few paces away from the socialist line while still being chained by a stake in socialist territory.

 

[Brian4Liberty]

Thomas Massie won't take a bribe.

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?544995-Bailout-2020-The-Great-Bipartisan-Bribe

 

[Theocrat]

You Can't Smell That Socialism?

Its easy to say that there are no unintended consequences to an action. You are thinking small minded.

There's a bigger human cost if the bill passes. If you can't see that, then I don't know what you've been learning from these forums for the past 5 years, nikcers.

 

[JoshLowry]

I'm curious to know. What is the libertarian response to helping Americans who are in need financially during a difficult time such as this? If you guys don't support a stimulus bill such as this, what is the alternative?

I think the point Massie is making is that $6 Trillion bills shouldn't be passed by quorum.

Trump chose to or had his hand forced by hysterical news ops to shut all non-essential down. Just because it is a solution, doesn't make it the only bill that could be passed. The banks could get nothing and the people could get more.

 

[axiomata]

I'm curious to know. What is the libertarian response to helping Americans who are in need financially during a difficult time such as this? If you guys don't support a stimulus bill such as this, what is the alternative?

Free market unemployment insurance and charity.

Also a libertarian society would have more wealth and a lack of an implicit promise to bailout would reduce moral hazard. Businesses both large and small would keep more of the libertarian wealth on hand for rainy days or buy insurance.

 

[nikcers]

There's a bigger human cost if the bill passes. If you can't see that, then I don't know what you've been learning from these forums for the past 5 years, nikcers.

That's a fantastic argument if he could win the political battle or hearts and minds. Temptation to use political power for anything but winning hearts and minds or political battles is tough. Even Massie jokes about putting on the ring. That's why I said I hope he can see the irony.

 

[enhanced_deficit]

If this were China, he would have been 'quarentined' ahead of such a monumental vote if his rogue intentions were known ahead of time.

 

[Brian4Liberty]

The medical system which we already spend /6 of the economy on could not handle the load if everyone got sick. They lobbied the government to send people home so they don't get sick. If the medical system red lined hard enough there would be rioting to get rid of the medical industrial complex. I fucking guarantee it.

What does that have to do with the economic stimulus bill under discussion?

 

[JoshLowry]

Free market unemployment insurance and charity.

Also a libertarian society would have more wealth and a lack of an implicit promise to bailout would reduce moral hazard. Businesses both large and small would keep more of the libertarian wealth on hand for rainy days or buy insurance.

What do you believe should be the proper response given the current conditions? (One without a current free market unemployment program)

A different bill than the one proposed is also an answer, but what is that bill/response?

 

[nikcers]

Free market unemployment insurance and charity.

Also a libertarian society would have more wealth and a lack of an implicit promise to bailout would reduce moral hazard. Businesses both large and small would keep more of the libertarian wealth on hand for rainy days or buy insurance.

Free market would let the healthcare industry fail. Take away the medical monopolies with deregulation. They already had to implement some deregulation on things like tele medicine.

 

[Warlord]

Trump should do the honest thing. Raise taxes or sell a new bond. Borrowing/printing makes matters worse.

 

[phill4paul]

First of all, you don't know which offices I've run for, so don't just assume that I'm an "armchair quarterback." I happen to believe in Localism, and just because I haven't been in a race that garners national or state attention doesn't mean that I haven't been out in the field looking for votes before.

Even at your best, which was apparently just applying for a local taxpayer job, you didn't make it? Your experience has no bearing. No equivalent. Just stop it.

Second of all, being a realist doesn't excuse advocating socialism, if you want to be a supporter of Ron Paul Forums. That name means something. I really don't care what Trump has supposedly done to reduce regulations, lower taxes, or anything else because all of his fiscal and monetary tactics assume that the Federal Reserve has legitimacy in the marketplace. Until we chop off the head of that snake, Trump's so-called conservative moves are nothing more than his moving a few paces away from the socialist line while still being chained by a stake in socialist territory.

Pretty much sums it up. What would you do to remove the head of the snake? Local, never elected, vote getter.

Stop with your childlike non-sense already.

 

[nikcers]

What does that have to do with the economic stimulus bill under discussion?

The stimulus bill is a response to the medical industrial complex making the government send people home and people can't pay their rent. Studies show people cant afford a suprise 400 dollar bill.

 

[Brian4Liberty]

I think the point Massie is making is that $6 Trillion bills shouldn't be passed by quorum.
...

Exactly. History will judge. Passing it without a recorded vote in hindsight will be viewed as panicked, foolish and deceptive. Like creating the Federal Reserve.

And who has read this bill? Are we supposed to find out what’s in it after they pass it? That’s classic Nancy Pelosi style legislating.

 

[nikcers]

Trump should do the honest thing. Raise taxes or sell a new bond. Borrowing/printing makes matters worse.

Printing when there is deflation is less taxes than that. Spending is the real tax. That would result in more spending.

 

[acptulsa]

If this were China, he would have been 'quarentined' ahead of such a monumental vote if his rogue intentions were known ahead of time.

What, just in China? Sen. Mike Lee was quarantined without so much as a test for the virus.

 

[acptulsa]

Free market would let the healthcare industry fail. Take away the medical monopolies with deregulation. They already had to implement some deregulation on things like tele medicine.

The free market could result in the failure of the entire health care industry? Not just the inefficient, ineffective, wasteful parts of it, but the whole thing?

Gee, I thought a true free market was a decentralizing influence.

 

[Brian4Liberty]

The stimulus bill is a response to the medical industrial complex making the government send people home and people can't pay their rent. Studies show people cant afford a suprise 400 dollar bill.

You changed the goalposts. First it was medical care would somehow stop, now it’s about people paying rent.

People will get medical care. This bill will have no affect one way or another.
People will not get evicted right now. This bill will have no affect on that.