“This is a system-wide collapse” - Texas border overwhelmed

[Superfluous Man]

Everyone has the right to try, just like his ancestors did. And the existing inhabitants have the right to try to stop them; as many of the Indians did. The only rights anybody in this world has are the ones they are willing to fight for to keep.

Your first two sentences contradict each other. If they have a right to try, then others don't have a right to try to stop them, at least not by violent means. If others do have a right to try to stop them, then coming here wasn't really a right those would-be immigrants had the first place. Either those Indians who tried to stop the people on the Mayflower (assuming some did, I'm not familiar with that bit of history) from being able to have any place at all to live on this continent were morally right to do that, or they were not. The truth is, they had no such right, except with respect to whatever limited plots of land they had rightful ownership of as individuals, attained by mixing their labor with the resources of that land to improve it. The remainder of the continent was not theirs to rule.

 

[Superfluous Man]

How is open borders and unlimited migration a "freedom" position, when every single last authoritarian collectivist in the country is in favor of it?

They aren't. Bernie Sanders is an immigration restrictionist. So are many, if not most, authoritarian collectivists in this country. One of the running themes of the Trump defenders all over the internet has been to post videos of Obama and other authoritarian collectivists advocating immigration restriction, so as to argue that we should be like Obama and those authoritarian collectivists. They also like to point to the immigration restrictionist policies of foreign authoritarian collectivist regimes and argue that we should want the regime that rules over us to be more like them. Historically, immigration restrictionism is the position predominantly of authoritarian collectivists, and free economic exchange across borders is the position predominantly of free market advocates like the guy this website is named after. We live in a world today where the latter group doesn't have much say any more. I'd like to see that change.

 

[RJB]

Actually, there was no need for fences until the old west became over populated with immigrants.

 

[specsaregood]

Your first two sentences contradict each other. If they have a right to try, then others don't have a right to try to stop them, at least not by violent means.

bullshit, its the law of nature. rights are just invented constructs to civilize society and that is why they are routinely ignored, man is not civilized.

 

[Superfluous Man]

bull$#@!, its the law of nature. rights are just invented constructs to civilize society and that is why they are routinely ignored, man is not civilized.

No. This world is the work of a Creator with a mind and will who is the origin of true moral laws just as much as any other laws of nature. There exists such thing as transcendent objective moral right and wrong, and we creatures have no say over that. Our relationship to those laws, just like other laws of nature, is one of discovering them, not inventing them. Justice is a real thing.

But it's good that you said this. This difference in world view is ultimately what is at the bottom of the difference between the utilitarian ethics that provide the foundation for immigration restrictionism and the morality based ethics that provide the basis for the free market approach, at least the one I take.

Sometimes doing the morally wrong thing will be economically advantageous for a person (advantageous to them in this world anyway, if not the next). But when that is the case it doesn't make that action any less the wrong thing.

 

[specsaregood]

No. This world is the work of a Creator with a mind and will who is the origin of true moral laws just as much as any other laws of nature. There exists such thing as transcendent objective moral right and wrong, and we creatures have no say over that. Our relationship to those laws, just like other laws of nature, is one of discovering them, not inventing them. Justice is a real thing.

But it's good that you said this. This difference in world view is ultimately what is at the bottom of the difference between the utilitarian ethics that provide the foundation for immigration restrictionism and the morality based ethics that provide the basis for the free market approach, at least the one I take.

And you have the right to believe whatever you want. But the rights you think you have from your Creator don't mean squat when somebody disagrees about the existence of that "right" and decides to take it from you by force.

 

[Superfluous Man]

But the rights you think you have from your Creator don't mean squat when somebody disagrees about the existence of that "right" and decides to take it from you by force.

They don't mean that I will succeed in being able to exercise them. But they do mean that that criminal is doing something wrong. It may be the case that injustice will prevail in this life. But I trust that the God whose character defines these laws of right and wrong will cause justice to win ultimately. We have to be content to accept that we, like most who submit to God's ways throughout history, will die before we see that day.

 

[DamianTV]

We dont want Walls because we hate people on the other side of the wall, rather we want Walls because we LOVE the people inside. If Mexicans loved Mexico so much, why wouldnt they want to put up their own Wall?

 

[devil21]

I get along fine with my immigrant neighbors. Hard working, family oriented people.

Pretty much the same here. But no I have a gate and fence (ironically to keep my dogs IN, not necessarily keep people out...though the power company's smart meter installers won't stop trying lol), which we already have on the border also. No need for national emergencies and walls and REX84s at my house. Besides, "my" name is on this property. My name is not on the border therefore I can't claim to own the country, since I know that I quite literally do not and am but a mere identured slave along side the rest of the indentured slaves. At this point, claiming this is my country would be the height of dishonesty and ignorance since I know quite well that it is not. None of us own anything. We did at one time but not anymore...

 

[donnay]

We needs to happen is taking the welfare away from foreigners--that is the first incentive. Have a wall built nevertheless.

The PTB are trying very hard to blow out our economy by flooding it with low income workers to take jobs and syphon from the welfare system.

 

[ATruepatriot]

We needs to happen is taking the welfare away from foreigners--that is the first incentive. Have a wall built nevertheless.

The PTB are trying very hard to blow out our economy by flooding it with low income workers to take jobs and syphon from the welfare system.

You are absolutely right. Cloward - Piven has been at work behind the scenes since the 60s. Every effort they make is towards this end goal.

 

[Anti Federalist]

It is someplace in his guidebook of Talking Points for Internet Forums. Who needs facts? They just get in the way. And they all vote communist as well.

California is now a leftist one state supermajority.

The reason for that, admitted in the government press organs, is because of migration.

You can't see it because you live there.

Forest for the trees and all that.

 

[Anti Federalist]

Yeah, I have heard that immigrants are all hard working family oriented people, while Trump supporters are all lazy white ignorant redneck and racists. Yet everyone wants to come here, but no one wants to go where the immigrants came from unless they are rich enough to seclude themselves.

Owe you a rep.

 

[timosman]

California is now a leftist one state supermajority.

The reason for that, admitted in the government press organs, is because of migration.

You can't see it because you live there.

Forest for the trees and all that.

Socialism is a great cover for corruption. Don't mind us stealing and laundering billions of dollars. Looky, there is a poor person over there!

 

[Anti Federalist]

Right wing=open border. Immigration restriction is a progressive leftist policy.

That is, literally, double think, mental masturbation.

Every progressive/leftist in the country, with the exception perhaps of Bernie Sanders (because jerbs) is in favor of unlimited immigration.

Or at least unlimited immigration of fellow leftists.

If these millions of people were coming from a failed freedom and liberty regime, they'd have the borders locked down tighter than a crab's ass underwater.

But, then again, freedom and liberty regimes don't fail...until they are invaded by collectivists and statists from other failed collectivist states/nations.

On the other hand, the strictest immigration control was signed into law by the most libertarian president the country has ever seen.

 

[Anti Federalist]

They aren't. Bernie Sanders is an immigration restrictionist. So are many, if not most, authoritarian collectivists in this country. One of the running themes of the Trump defenders all over the internet has been to post videos of Obama and other authoritarian collectivists advocating immigration restriction, so as to argue that we should be like Obama and those authoritarian collectivists. They also like to point to the immigration restrictionist policies of foreign authoritarian collectivist regimes and argue that we should want the regime that rules over us to be more like them. Historically, immigration restrictionism is the position predominantly of authoritarian collectivists, and free economic exchange across borders is the position predominantly of free market advocates like the guy this website is named after. We live in a world today where the latter group doesn't have much say any more. I'd like to see that change.

Yeah, I acknowledged that in another post, Bernie is not.

One is not a list.

 

[Superfluous Man]

Every progressive/leftist in the country, with the exception perhaps of Bernie Sanders (because jerbs) is in favor of unlimited immigration.

And Donald Trump. So just the current Republican president, and the odds-on favorite to be his Democrat opponent.

And a lot of others from both parties.

But that's all.

 

[Anti Federalist]

They don't mean that I will succeed in being able to exercise them. But they do mean that that criminal is doing something wrong. It may be the case that injustice will prevail in this life. But I trust that the God whose character defines these laws of right and wrong will cause justice to win ultimately. We have to be content to accept that we, like most who submit to God's ways throughout history, will die before we see that day.

Ah, so we're all brothers, Kum-Bye-Ya, and we'll let God sort it all out.

God's a brat kid with an ant farm, brother.

We sort it out for ourselves, or die.

 

[Superfluous Man]

We sort it out for ourselves, or die.

I don't believe the fear-mongering that keeping out immigrants is a life-or-death issue.

But even if I did, and I believed that doing the right thing would result in me dying, OK. Fine. That wouldn't change the fact that it's the right thing. Sometimes that's the way it is.

And yes, I do trust that when that happens, God will sort it all out. I plead guilty to that charge.

 

[Anti Federalist]

At this point, claiming this is my country would be the height of dishonesty and ignorance since I know quite well that it is not. None of us own anything. We did at one time but not anymore...

Yes, we did.

I would like to return to that time.

Importing millions of people that do not care about that time and do not agree, will not make that job easier.