Think about a Ron Paul defeat

Finland's very open to outsiders. They just don't get all that many because the language is harder to learn for most and the weather's cold. Apparently you can get dual citizenship after five years of residence which is shorter than every other European country I know of.
 
I hear New Zealand is nice, too (although a pain in the arse to get citizenship).

New Zealand is a beautiful country but it is very very socialist. There are alot of social problems in NZ, very high incidence of suicide, drug and alcohol abuse. It's also very isolated which has put me off emigrating there.

Switzerland is an interesting country. It has always maintained its independance in wars and it has stayed out of the EU. It is cripplingly expensive. There is a drastic shortage of property. Just finding somewhere to live there is a major headache.
 
I use this not to instill pessimism but urgency.

My wife and I had a talk the other day about her concerns that I was too wrapped up in Ron Paul, and it gave me an open door to explain to her why that was so.

I explained to her that I'm doing everything I can to contain my support for him, because I think his success is critical at this time in our nation's history.

She asked what I thought would happen if he loses . . . what my fear is.

My fear is that whomever is elected will just pursue the same arrogant foreign policy we've descended down over the last half century. At home, the non-Paul president will just continue to either raise taxes or bankrupt our nation in the same cycle we've been going down.

And my last, greatest fear is that another Ron Paul will not be had peacefully. Ron Paul is someone the establishment never thought could gain any traction, and that he has only has highlighted areas that will need to be "secured" going forward -- i.e. internet regulation, etc..

She's since watched his interview with Beck & Russert, and she seems less concerned -- or perhaps just more understanding -- about my sense of urgency. That's a start, I guess.

Anyone else believe that if Paul doesn't win, we're in for it?


I could have written that myself, almost word for word. I believe in Paul's sense of urgency as well. The media wishes to ignore some pretty big problems that aren't going to go away. After Paul, there's no figurehead for this movement.

On the good side, we've built up a network around the campaign, and I'm personally emboldened by the amount of people that feel just like I do. I can't imagine 5 more years of continuing down the same road without more serious civil liberty problems and extremely serious monetary problems.
 
If Ron Paul's election does get stolen, we need to re-double our efforts to send "Pauliticians" to Washington D.C. to serve in Congress.
 
I dont' mean to scare folks, but remember the patriot act works just as well if you don't have a big beard... LOL ;) ... Watch what you say because they are watching... LOL...
 
If RP loses this election, I'm afraid it will have to get ugly. People are getting more and more informed. Unless they shut down the Internet, I don't think this trend is going to slow.
 
So you're better off staying in America and fighting to take your country back

Exactly. If the agents of change leave at the first defeat, who will be left to fight? In a country the size of the Unites States, with a large percentage of people who have been conditioned to fear for their safely, adopt apathetic positions when it comes to change, and taught a one-sided view of history, it will take time. In many ways, that (time) is a good thing as quick, drastic changes can be crippling. We must stay the course.

This reminds me of all the leftists in 2004 who said they were leaving for Canada if John Kerry didn't win. The old adage of "he who fights and runs away . . ." does not apply here.
 
In the Google interview, Ron Paul points out that there are enough crazy executive powers in place right now to where if a president wanted to, he could exploit those from day one to rule us.

I think we're fortunate (so far) that Bush hasn't exploited his powers even worse than he has.
 
Exactly. If the agents of change leave at the first defeat, who will be left to fight? In a country the size of the Unites States, with a large percentage of people who have been conditioned to fear for their safely, adopt apathetic positions when it comes to change, and taught a one-sided view of history, it will take time. In many ways, that (time) is a good thing as quick, drastic changes can be crippling. We must stay the course.

This reminds me of all the leftists in 2004 who said they were leaving for Canada if John Kerry didn't win. The old adage of "he who fights and runs away . . ." does not apply here.

There's something in what you say. But what'll we have to do? Perhaps another revolutionary war... who knows. But we've got to win this election.
 
All of this talk reminds me of the celebrities who promised to leave the US if Kerry lost...and then didn't leave. Sorry, I found it silly then, and find it silly now.

Anyone know much about Malta?
 
If we don't win this election, then the grassroots becomes even more important. "Ron Paul Republicans" must start winning local, state and eventually, national elections. The final numbers of this election will show either how close, or how far, we are from winning the minds of Americans.

Win or lose, this election will reveal where we stand. And that's important for developing a strategy for change.
 
I use this not to instill pessimism but urgency.

My wife and I had a talk the other day about her concerns that I was too wrapped up in Ron Paul, and it gave me an open door to explain to her why that was so.

I explained to her that I'm doing everything I can to contain my support for him, because I think his success is critical at this time in our nation's history.

She asked what I thought would happen if he loses . . . what my fear is.

My fear is that whomever is elected will just pursue the same arrogant foreign policy we've descended down over the last half century. At home, the non-Paul president will just continue to either raise taxes or bankrupt our nation in the same cycle we've been going down.

And my last, greatest fear is that another Ron Paul will not be had peacefully. Ron Paul is someone the establishment never thought could gain any traction, and that he has only has highlighted areas that will need to be "secured" going forward -- i.e. internet regulation, etc..

She's since watched his interview with Beck & Russert, and she seems less concerned -- or perhaps just more understanding -- about my sense of urgency. That's a start, I guess.

Anyone else believe that if Paul doesn't win, we're in for it?



We can join the Lakota Indians:

http://blogs.usatoday.com/ondeadline/2007/12/lakota-withdraw.html
 
Haha... I'm glad someone brought that up!


what do you think about it? I live in Florida and the thought of moving to somewhere so cold is not very attractive - but I would seriouly consider it if Ron Paul does not win. My kids will adjust. :-)
 
You do realize that we will be completely bankrupt by 2020. I mean there is no way we are going to pay off that trillions of dollars in debt.

we've turned into a country of consumers.

The only thing keeping us going right now while our economy falls apart is China loans, cheap products and the Arab oil states.

The question is when will they stop selling in dollars? My guess the bigger China grows the less dependent they will be. And while the Euro climbs eventually the oil states will switch.

Then we're screwed.

It wont happen over night but it will just get worst over time.
 
I use this not to instill pessimism but urgency.

My wife and I had a talk the other day about her concerns that I was too wrapped up in Ron Paul, and it gave me an open door to explain to her why that was so.

I explained to her that I'm doing everything I can to contain my support for him, because I think his success is critical at this time in our nation's history.

She asked what I thought would happen if he loses . . . what my fear is.

My fear is that whomever is elected will just pursue the same arrogant foreign policy we've descended down over the last half century. At home, the non-Paul president will just continue to either raise taxes or bankrupt our nation in the same cycle we've been going down.

And my last, greatest fear is that another Ron Paul will not be had peacefully. Ron Paul is someone the establishment never thought could gain any traction, and that he has only has highlighted areas that will need to be "secured" going forward -- i.e. internet regulation, etc..

She's since watched his interview with Beck & Russert, and she seems less concerned -- or perhaps just more understanding -- about my sense of urgency. That's a start, I guess.

Anyone else believe that if Paul doesn't win, we're in for it?
Ok, Lucid, do you think RP is a person? I don't. Guliani, McCain and Fraud Thompson are persons. RP is a movement. You know how we keep quoting Ghandi? Well he also said that we must become the change we want to see in the world.

RP is but one individual. His strength is not in his money, or connections, damn sure not in his campaign. His strength is us. The mere fact that we are so many and we made RP so campaign money rich is a win already, even if he never sits behind that Resolute Desk.

We should think big, but sometimes we think too big. Are you overweight? Are you in debt? Are you in an abusive relatinoship? Are you achieveing your life goals, whatever they are? No? Then what chance does President Ron Paul stand turning hir rhetoric into tangible results if we don't know what to do with our freedom?

Are you active locally? Who is your governor? What about a judge? What about a railroad commissioner? What is the current issue that your local city hall is fighting over?

These are the questions everybody has to ask. We have to start from the very base. Did you know that Libertarians got the vacant posts in some municipalities merely because they bothered to apply for them? Do you understand we are giving too much credit to Ron Paul alone and too much credit to Hillary Clinton alone? These people can't enact whatever they want to enact with us getting up off our asses and protesting, throwing out those supporting those enactments and electing those promising to over rule those.

Seriously, stop with all this military takeover drama. The government is still tripartite. The courts can still overrule the Congress. The President can still veto the bill he otherwise wouldn't if he sees too much tension in the masses. Start small. Look in the mirror and see if you have any problems. Change your attitude. Work hard. Make money work for you, not the other way around. Change your diet and lose that extra pound.

Even if the worst of the worst, Hillary gets elected and sits in the WhiteHouse for 8 years straight, we can still make our communities better. Find out how. And, most importantly, vote locally.
 
Finland's very open to outsiders. They just don't get all that many because the language is harder to learn for most and the weather's cold. Apparently you can get dual citizenship after five years of residence which is shorter than every other European country I know of.

A person I grew up with (Finnish heritage) went back to the old country and after a couple of years was disillusioned. It is very socialist, like most of Europe, so he came back.
 
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