The TRULY ***Official*** 2024 Election Season thread

[acptulsa]

A vote for Harris is a vote for Dick Cheney..

A vote for neither of the greatest evils yet -- whether slightly lesser or not -- is not a vote for evil.

 

[Anti Federalist]

Jesus, dude. What part of "none of the above none of the above" escaped your notice in your rush to think totally binary and make everyone else do the same?

I'm not living in your world, wherever the hell that is.

Because the reality is, as of 23 October 2024 at 1031 EDT it is going to be Harris or Trump as chief executive for the next four years.

And you will be subject to one or the other, in your world.

Shit in one hand and wishes in the other...

 

[Anti Federalist]

And each of those steps forward comes amidst two steps back.

For the nine millionth time, liberty cannot be maintained this way. If it could be, we wouldn't have taken nine million steps backward just in my lifetime.

I do not care to rearrange the deck chairs on the Titanic, and I don't care how important those deck chairs are to you. If I can't get help fixing the big damned hole in the damned hull, I'll still try and fail to do it myself because those deck chairs don't mean shit to me. However you arrange them, they still won't be there long; the deck is nearly awash. We may both be on fool's errands, but at least patching the breach would save the ship if it could be done.

We need a yugely great SCOTUS full of the bestest people when we burn the Constitution and consign the institution to the dustbin of history. We are all Nero now, fiddling with our lyres while the empire burns.

I don't know where all this righteous indignation comes from for sure. But it must be your state of denial, because it certainly isn't because your plan will do a damned thing for any of us.

How is reversing Roe and Chevron "burning down the Constitution"?

And for the nine millionth time back, we know all that.

What are you prepared to do about it?

To use the Titanic analogy, for fuck's sake, that's what many of us view our political option as being: stuffing the breech with mattresses and canvas and dunnage trying to buy a little more time.

And it's not righteous indignation, it's just weariness.

Like arguing with my wife, getting dunned loudly with things I am well aware of already, I'm tired of it, so don't take part, write in Ron Paul like I have for years and years, sit and spin, I really don't care anymore.

It's going to be whatever it will be, and if it all falls into chaos because of shenanigans, maybe then people will understand and finally do something productive.

 

[acptulsa]

$#@! in one hand and wishes in the other...

... and you're going to wind up with both hands smelling the same, because no matter which they install we won't be more free than we are now.

I'm allowed to refrain from supporting evil. I'm allowed. Support all the evil you want; I only have to explain myself on the Day of Reckoning.

 

[Anti Federalist]

He's living in reality. Sorry you want to continue the fantasy world. The possibilities for the next administration are completely binary at this point. ONE of these TWO people is going to be nominating the agency heads and appointing judges. I know you don't like that reality, but it's the reality in which we live. None of us like that, but AF has at least accepted that.

Exactly.

And I wrote my replies before reading yours.

 

[Anti Federalist]

... and you're going to wind up with both hands smelling the same, because no matter which they install we won't be more free than we are now.

I'm allowed to refrain from supporting evil. I'm allowed. Support all the evil you want; I only have to explain myself on the Day of Reckoning.

Yes, you are, by all means do so, if that is what your conscience dictates.

 

[Philhelm]

... and you're going to wind up with both hands smelling the same, because no matter which they install we won't be more free than we are now.

I'm allowed to refrain from supporting evil. I'm allowed. Support all the evil you want; I only have to explain myself on the Day of Reckoning.

I disagree with the "both sides" argument, and I'd imagine that Ron Paul does as well since he ran as a Republican. We all know that the Republican Party sucks and is 95%+ against its own constituents. However, most of those constituents are at least friendly to you and your ideas, or at least some of them. In fact, I'd argue that Republican voters have become more friendly to libertarian ideas since Ron Paul became more widely known.

Meanwhile, the Democratic Party is comprised of a chimera of hate, mental illness, and degeneracy. I'm not going to tell you to vote, or who to vote for, but it's not going to be the same outcome for most Americans regardless of who "wins" the election. I'd rather the people who are not outright hostile toward me be in control of the men with guns.

 

[acptulsa]

Ron Paul has said that he didn't see much to choose from when he picked a major party to align with. And he aligned with the GOP which was nominating Ronald Reagan. Now, Phil, don't tell me it hasn't changed a drop since.

Which leaves us with the my herd is better argument.

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?567766-My-Herd-Is-Better-Than-Yours

Well, I agree. Doesn't mean I want to go where your sheep dogs are herding us. Your sheep dogs, their sheep dogs -- right now I'm a lot less focused on choosing between them than trying to figure out how to avoid them all.

What has Ron Paul said about that party lately..?

Will Neocons Weasel Their Way Into A Trump 2.0 White House?

Israel is trying to start WWIII, and your Alpha has already announced that he's their Huckleberry.

 

[CaptUSA]

A vote for neither of the greatest evils yet -- whether slightly lesser or not -- is not a vote for evil.

I can respect that you don't want to vote for evil. That's fine. But evil you will still get.

Those of us who have moved beyond that fantasy realm understand that. So, while we don't want evil, we will hope for what we deem to be the more tolerable evil. For me, it's the one that gives my children and grandchildren a chance in the future. This election cycle won't turn the tide, but it may keep the door open to turning the tide in the future. The DNC and their puppets are pro-war, pro-censorship, pro-theft, pro-crime, pro-authoritarian, and anti-human. And they appoint people who are the same to positions of power.

No one is demeaning you for sticking to your principles. No need to demean others who look at the same situations and come to different conclusions. We are all rational actors here.

 

[WarriorLiberty]

Ron Paul has said that he didn't see much to choose from when he picked a major party to align with. And he aligned with the GOP which was nominating Ronald Reagan. Now, Phil, don't tell me it hasn't changed a drop since.

Which leaves us with the my herd is better argument.

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?567766-My-Herd-Is-Better-Than-Yours

Well, I agree. Doesn't mean I want to go where your sheep dogs are herding us. Your sheep dogs, their sheep dogs -- right now I'm a lot less focused on choosing between them than trying to figure out how to avoid them all.

What has Ron Paul said about that party lately..?



Israel is trying to start WWIII, and your Alpha has already announced that he's their Huckleberry.

Israel is trying to start WWIII, and your Alpha has already announced that he's their Huckleberry

Harris isnt any better on the middle east. She made her position clear.

She will defend and support Israel.

 

[acptulsa]

Harris isnt any better on the middle east.

Who said she was?

Seriously, who said she was?

 

[acptulsa]

Those of us who have moved beyond that fantasy realm understand that...

No one is demeaning you for sticking to your principles.

Oh really?

Not one person intimated that my principles exist only in the fantasy realm? Not one person suggested that the hand I hold my principles in is no more full than the hand I shit in?

Really?

If you want to let one evil frighten you into supporting evil just so you can be on record saying, "...but not so much!" then there you are. But don't tell me you aren't convinced you're doing something that actually promotes good, or that you're not trying to shame me into reinforcing that with your fantasy realm jabber.

 

[spudea]

Israel is trying to start WWIII, and your Alpha has already announced that he's their Huckleberry.

Trump talks about avoiding WWIII all the time, he always talks about we need to get along with other countries like Russia, North Korea, and Iran. He invited the Iranian president to Camp David with no preconditions. He sat down with Kim Jong Un and made a peace agreement.

Trump is the peace candidate. Your sick lies are truly deranged. Get your head examined.

 

[acptulsa]

Trump talks about avoiding WWIII all the time, he always talks about we need to get along with other countries like Russia, North Korea, and Iran. He invited the Iranian president to Camp David with no preconditions. He sat down with Kim Jong Un and made a peace agreement.

Trump is the peace candidate. Your sick lies are truly deranged. Get your head examined.

Do I need to get my head examined because I don't believe every little thing that dribbles out of Trump's mouth? Or do you merely need to get your eyes examined?

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/content.php?11718-Why-I-Don%92t-Trust-Trump-on-Iran-Ron-Paul

Monday January 6, 2020

President Trump and his Secretary of State Mike Pompeo told us the US had to assassinate Maj. Gen. Qassim Soleimani last week because he was planning “Imminent attacks” on US citizens. I don’t believe them.

Why not? Because Trump and the neocons – like Pompeo – have been lying about Iran for the past three years in an effort to whip up enough support for a US attack. From the phony justification to get out of the Iran nuclear deal, to blaming Yemen on Iran, to blaming Iran for an attack on Saudi oil facilities, the US Administration has fed us a steady stream of lies for three years because they are obsessed with Iran.

Well, [MENTION=30558]CaptUSA[/MENTION]? Am I to consider being called a deranged teller of sick lies by someone who can't remember 2020 to be something less than demeaning?

 

[Madison320]

Trump is up by 20 points in the betting markets. At one point Harris was up by 16.

 

[acptulsa]

It's going to be whatever it will be, and if it all falls into chaos because of shenanigans, maybe then people will understand and finally do something productive.

That's where we stand. American men would almost certainly already be doing something productive right now, if they weren't all sucking on a pacifier named Trump and hoping to get more out of that than we got before. Like Michael Malice said, Trump is the dam, and he's holding back a lot of useful energy.

As for your attempt to paint yourself as righteous because you're being practical, figure out how many states even have a Tulsa, then calculate the odds that my vote being withdrawn will tip it away from Trump.

Gang up on and demean me, then try to soft soap me into believing that I'm the only person here capable of demeaning anyone. Y'all are acting like liberals again. Just partisans driving the speed limit after all.

You aren't harping on me because my vote would do a damned thing. You're harping on me because you're in denial about how bad it really is, and what the realistic chances are of Trump lifting one finger to fix it.

 

[TheTexan]

That's where we stand. American men would almost certainly already be doing something productive right now, if they weren't all sucking on a pacifier named Trump and hoping to get more out of that than we got before. Like Michael Malice said, Trump is the dam, and he's holding back a lot of useful energy.

I disagree. I wouldn't go so far as to say that Trump is the source of division in this country, but he is almost certainly the catalyst of division in this country. The division in this country -- measured by rhetoric, tension, and emotion, if not policy -- heightened almost over night as Trump became the front-runner of the Republican party.

This division has continued to escalate, and Trump continues to be a strong catalyst to that division, as evidenced by historic events such as Jan 6.

This division shows no sign of slowing down, and I don't see any cohesive argument to be made that Trump is somehow impeding the division in this country.

And division, ultimately, is gonna be the driving force to "doing something productive". Whether that hopefully means secession, or less hopefully, civil war, it will be division that will get us there.

So yea, Trump is helping the cause of liberty simply by his mere existence, driving up the division in this country. Which is one of his greatest qualities certainly

 

[acptulsa]

He's not the source of the division, we are. And I didn't say he was making anything less divisive, I said men aren't doing the housecleaning that needs to be done because too many men won't join the groundswell because they think Trump will actually fix something -- not just hold the line, but advance the ball.

He's the dam doesn't mean he's not divisive. Dams do divide. Hell, they divide water from air. He's the dam means he's holding us back from washing the evil out of our nation. They built Trump Dam to contain us. We ran Ron Paul twice while Trump was still a dilettante. Please stop giving the duplicitous bastard credit for what we did.

 

[TheTexan]

He's not the source of the division, we are. And I didn't say he was making anything less divisive, I said men aren't doing the housecleaning that needs to be done because too many men won't join the groundswell because they think Trump will actually fix something -- not just hold the line, but advance the ball.

He's the dam doesn't mean he's not divisive. Dams do divide. Hell, they divide water from air. He's the dam means he's holding us back from washing the evil out of our nation.

Well, action requires emotion. Emotion requires division. Trump inspires division. Seems good so far, to me.

We live in the real world where certain realities exist and in that world, Trump seems like our best chance of breaking that dam, with the division he inspires.

What - realistically - would you hope for the Republican party (or even the Democratic party) to do differently, that would a) be founded in reality, and b) have any chance of success?

They built Trump Dam to contain us. We ran Ron Paul twice while Trump was still a dilettante. Please stop giving the duplicitous bastard credit for what we did.

I look at it differently. I think Ron Paul directly led to Trump. And I mean that in a positive way. A Trump Presidency I don't think would have been possible without Ron Paul.

And this isn't to give Trump credit, at least not for much. The fact that he inspires divisiveness, is more of an acknowledgement, than an attribution of credit. I doubt he does it intentionally for that purpose

 

[acptulsa]

Well, action requires emotion. Emotion requires division. Trump inspires division. Seems good so far, to me.

We live in the real world where certain realities exist and in that world, Trump seems like our best chance of breaking that dam, with the division he inspires.

What - realistically - would you hope for the Republican party (or even the Democratic party) to do differently, that would a) be founded in reality, and b) have any chance of success?

Such a party animal.

You're in denial of the fact that if we want our free country back we're going to have to work at it like beavers. And you're only mad at me because I refuse to let you wallow in that delusion uninterrupted.

As for political parties, particularly the two you mention, well, at this point I can only refer you to the definition of insanity. Or Will Rogers...

Stupidity got us into this mess. Why can't it get us out?