The Theist Hatred Of Atheists

Please read this:

http://www.ronpaullibrary.org/document.php?id=916

Then come back and tell the rest of us "theists" if you think Ron Paul is scum. This has got be be one of the dumbest threads ever.

Regards,

John M. Drake

Except that people like you continue to treat Atheists like shit... I don't see the stupidity you talk about... unless you are referring to the posts by Theocrat.

It amazes me how offended people get when it is themselves who are questioned for intolerance.
 
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Beachmaster,

I have been a Christian for almost 20 years. Some of the meanest people that I have ever met were professing "Christians," although upon reflection I am not so sure that they were true Christians. I will leave that judgment up to God, as He sees into the hearts of all men.

I am sure that there are just as many mean and angry atheists out there too. I just don't have an occasion to bump in to them very often. We probably don't run in the same circles, so to speak.

I have learned that I can find something to like in just about every kind of person that I meet. I enjoy dialoguing with most as long as it doesn't become cruel and belittling.

I am married to a Presbyterian pastor, and we have had all kinds of different people come and go at our church. All have been welcomed in to my home, as would you and your wife were you ever to visit.

I truly appreciate the invite. I get invited to church fairly regularly, especially during holiday season. Last time I went was with my wife to a local Baptist church for a Christmas program. This was in 2006. I was uncomfortable and bored to be totally honest. One of my friends is a realtor and a Presbyterian pastor. We met when my wife used to attend his church. I've attended many of their dinners and get togethers and I know all of the members. It's a small group. We always got along well. Sometimes a few of us, me the pastor and another guy who happens to be on the militant side, would engage in some light debate. Nobody got hurt!

A previous church that my wife and I attended (non-denominational) dissed the both of us (I was still a christian) when they didn't like the fact that we were going to get married without a marriage license. I tried to explain to them that marriage was of God... render to Caesar that which is Caesar's, and to God that which is God's. They didn't like me taking the scriptures so literally. After we got married (we had a baptist preacher friend of mine who doesn't believe in mixing church and state, doesn't have the 501c3 IRS designation, etc. do our ceremony), they sorta treated us like we were living in sin, lol.

So I've experienced the good, the bad, and the ugly. People are people, whether religious or not. I've also known good, bad, and ugly people of no faith, or other faiths.

It's people (like in Soylent Green, lol)
 
I truly appreciate the invite. I get invited to church fairly regularly, especially during holiday season. Last time I went was with my wife to a local Baptist church for a Christmas program. This was in 2006. I was uncomfortable and bored to be totally honest. One of my friends is a realtor and a Presbyterian pastor. We met when my wife used to attend his church. I've attended many of their dinners and get togethers and I know all of the members. It's a small group. We always got along well. Sometimes a few of us, me the pastor and another guy who happens to be on the militant side, would engage in some light debate. Nobody got hurt!

A previous church that my wife and I attended (non-denominational) dissed the both of us (I was still a christian) when they didn't like the fact that we were going to get married without a marriage license. I tried to explain to them that marriage was of God... render to Caesar that which is Caesar's, and to God that which is God's. They didn't like me taking the scriptures so literally. After we got married (we had a baptist preacher friend of mine who doesn't believe in mixing church and state, doesn't have the 501c3 IRS designation, etc. do our ceremony), they sorta treated us like we were living in sin, lol.

So I've experienced the good, the bad, and the ugly. People are people, whether religious or not. I've also known good, bad, and ugly people of no faith, or other faiths.

It's people (like in Soylent Green, lol)

He will never let you go, He loves you to much. I understand the hurt you feel, my faith has been challenged by the church numerous times. Forgive and be forgiven, Brother. The angels will rejoice when you rejoin the fold. GBU
 
You said this:

"There's a lot more to it of course. That site gives the basics however, and once you grasp it, you see that the random Universe is ordered. Weird, yet apparently true."
(Sorry, I have never tried to figure out how to do the blue quote thing.)

Doesn't an "ordered" random universe disprove the Chaos Theory????? What looks like choas is actually ordered...
Basically it seems to boil down to "out of chaos comes order, and out of order comes chaos". They seem to be two sides to the same coin.

Also, it seems related to David Bohm's "Holographic Universe" idea where there are two aspects of reality, implicate and explicate. It makes for interesting reading.
 
He will never let you go, He loves you to much. I understand the hurt you feel, my faith has been challenged by the church numerous times. Forgive and be forgiven, Brother. The angels will rejoice when you rejoin the fold. GBU

My point was that people hurt people all the time. Religion isn't the only reason why some people hurt others. Everyone has been hurt by someone at sometime. I don't blame religion, I blame human nature. I'm not mad at christians because they are christian, and I would hope that christians aren't mad at me because I'm apostate. But reality is, some hate me. And some atheists, agnostics, apostates, etc., hate theists. It's just human nature.
 
My point was that people hurt people all the time. Religion isn't the only reason why some people hurt others. Everyone has been hurt by someone at sometime. I don't blame religion, I blame human nature. I'm not mad at christians because they are christian, and I would hope that christians aren't mad at me because I'm apostate. But reality is, some hate me. And some atheists, agnostics, apostates, etc., hate theists. It's just human nature.

I don't really hate theists. I just want a fair place to raise my kids, and I don't want my money going to promote things I strongly disagree with philosophically...
 
Except that people like you continue to treat Atheists like shit... I don't see the stupidity you talk about... unless you are referring to the posts by Theocrat.

It amazes me how offended people get when it is themselves who are questioned for intolerance.

Really? I've created atheists like "shit"? How exactly? By calling a thread stupid? I'm sure any halfway intelligent atheist would call a thread like this on a forum supporting a "theist" stupid too. I would think that any halfway intelligent atheist would call your blanket painting of ALL "theists" as "hating atheists" as patently stupid. If you wanted to single out "theocrats" (theists who want a religious form of government) that would have been one thing. But you attacked everyone that believes in God. Whether you realize that or not you indirectly attacked Ron Paul in your own thread. So either you're a plant working for another campaign (my guess Huckabee) or you're just totally ignorant. I care not which.

Regards,

John M. Drake
 
My point was that people hurt people all the time. Religion isn't the only reason why some people hurt others. Everyone has been hurt by someone at sometime. I don't blame religion, I blame human nature. I'm not mad at christians because they are christian, and I would hope that christians aren't mad at me because I'm apostate. But reality is, some hate me. And some atheists, agnostics, apostates, etc., hate theists. It's just human nature.

Thank you for not taking offense at what I said, it was spoken in love. Your right, humans are dealing with a fallen nature. If it helps, there is at least one Christian here who doesn't hate you, no matter what you believe.
 
Really? I've created atheists like "shit"? How exactly? By calling a thread stupid? I'm sure any halfway intelligent atheist would call a thread like this on a forum supporting a "theist" stupid too. I would think that any halfway intelligent atheist would call your blanket painting of ALL "theists" as "hating atheists" as patently stupid. If you wanted to single out "theocrats" (theists who want a religious form of government) that would have been one thing. But you attacked everyone that believes in God. Whether you realize that or not you indirectly attacked Ron Paul in your own thread. So either you're a plant working for another campaign (my guess Huckabee) or you're just totally ignorant. I care not which.

Regards,

John M. Drake

Regards indeed. It was a link to an article actually, not a blanket statement. Plant for Huckabee? I thought you were alot smarter than that John... you and I were debating in the start of this forum before Huckabee ever showed his face at a caucus... Seriously though, I would like to hear one good argument on why an atheist should ever support someone like Huckabee...

I'm a libertarian democrat... and I'm leaning Obama now because I feel Ron Paul is not going to win, and I don't want Hillary or McCain... savvy?
 
Thank you for not taking offense at what I said, it was spoken in love. Your right, humans are dealing with a fallen nature. If it helps, there is at least one Christian here who doesn't hate you, no matter what you believe.

Thank you. That's the way it should be. We are one species. United we'll stand. Divided we'll fall. It don't get no simpler than that!
 
I don't really hate theists. I just want a fair place to raise my kids, and I don't want my money going to promote things I strongly disagree with philosophically...

S-U-R-E you don't. :rolleyes: You already have a fair place to raise your kids. As for not having money going to promote things you strongly disagree with, why is that fair for you but not fair for "theists"? After all theist tax dollars pay the salaries of teachers who openly denigrate religion in the classroom. No I'm not just talking about evolution. I'm also talking about teachers who get up and say "There is no God" to their students. A Christian teacher that said "God loves you" would be in danger of being fired. Why is one ok and the other is not?

The article you linked to criticized Americans for saying they wouldn't vote for an atheist for president. Well there have been MANY threads on this forum by atheists criticizing Ron Paul's fitness to be president because he didn't fully endorse evolution. Even for Ron Paul to have a question about that isn't good enough for some people. (I wonder why they hang around?) The same article criticized "theists" for not wanting their children to marry atheists. Well would you REALLY want your child to marry a theist? Wouldn't you be afraid that your grandchildren would be taught to believe "fairy tales and superstition"?

Your article does grudgingly admit that atheists like Stalin and Pol Pot have done their share of damage to the world, but that only makes the attacks on "theists" all the more laughable. Preferring a Christian for president is equivalent to murdering millions of innocent people? Anyway, if you'd like an atheist libertarian for president feel free to go here.

http://phillies2008.org/

Regards,

John M. Drake
 
Regards indeed. It was a link to an article actually, not a blanket statement. Plant for Huckabee? I thought you were alot smarter than that John... you and I were debating in the start of this forum before Huckabee ever showed his face at a caucus... Seriously though, I would like to hear one good argument on why an atheist should ever support someone like Huckabee...

I'm a libertarian democrat... and I'm leaning Obama now because I feel Ron Paul is not going to win, and I don't want Hillary or McCain... savvy?

The Huckabee jab was a joke. (He's clearly a theocrat.) As for the "link to an article" defense, how would you feel if I linked to an article and started a thread with the title "Evil atheists are out to destroy America"? In that case you could justifiably say I was treating atheists like "sh*t". As it stands that's how I see you treating theists. Maybe that's not your intent. But that's how it comes across.

Regards,

John M. Drake
 
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The Huckabee jab was a joke. (He's clearly a theocrat.) As for the "link to an article" defense, how would you feel if I linked to an article and started a thread with the title "Evil atheists are out to destroy America"? In that case you could justifiably say I was treating atheists like "sh*t". As it stands that's how I see you treating theists. Maybe that's not your intent. But that's how it comes across.

Regards,

John M. Drake

Yes, there is some residual distaste over Theocrat... it wasn't meant towards you. I have no problem with most of what teachers say... honestly... I like the public education system, and I like diversity. As long as there remains a certain criteria in science and math. I would welcome with an open heart, creationism in American Mythology 101 or something of that nature. When I mention tax money, I am mostly referring to the Unconstitutional promotion of protestantism through Faith-based Initiatives, making jail-programs and bible programs, and giving churches money to do this... unacceptable.
 
I'm also talking about teachers who get up and say "There is no God" to their students. A Christian teacher that said "God loves you" would be in danger of being fired. Why is one ok and the other is not?

Are we talking about public universities? I have extreme doubts that a teacher would get up, in any other situation, and say “There is no God”. For one, they wouldn’t present it that simply. But they should be allowed to use whatever method of teaching they like to get across what they’re teaching and, to some extent and unavoidably, their own views on what they’re teaching.

I’ve heard teachers say things like that (“God loves you”) all my life (I live in NC, and used to live in SC), and nothing ever happens. Nor should it. But to O’Reilly yourself into some sort of secular conspiracy is ridiculous.

Well would you REALLY want your child to marry a theist?

I’m Agnostic/lean Atheist, but I DONT GIVE A FUCK who my child marries, in terms of “what they believe”—as opposed to how he is as a person.

Wouldn't you be afraid that your grandchildren would be taught to believe "fairy tales and superstition"?

These hypothetical grandchildren will be sent some Nietzsche early on (13-14 yrs). Anyway, they should be able to stand as individuals at some point, decide for themselves.
 
These hypothetical grandchildren will be sent some Nietzsche early on (13-14 yrs). Anyway, they should be able to stand as individuals at some point, decide for themselves.

I'm all for teaching children how to think critically for themselves, and not believe anything just because some authority figure tells them "this is as it is".

That's one of the reasons our nation is so screwed up. First the little kiddies are taught about Santa Claus, the Tooth Fairy, the Easter Bunny, then later it's Allah, Jehovah, Holy Ghost, Joseph Smith, Jesus, Krishna, or Hashem. At some point, it's Big Brother, George Washington and his Cherry Tree (but no mention of the Constitution), Abraham Lincoln and what a demi-god he was, how the we are to obey the authorities as Romans 13 tells us, and to always trust your doctor and don't ask him what that stuff is he's about to inject into you.

It's not just schools, preachers, and parents... it's the whole "dumbing down" system that has brought us to where we are. If I ever were to have kids (it's a little late for me now), the first thing I would teach them is TRUST NOBODY! Don't believe them. Don't believe TV. Research everything yourself, apply logic and common sense, make up your own mind and live the best life you can, and always strive to educate YOURSELF! Keep asking "why?"

And yes, that would apply to me as well. Don't trust me. I'd be the first to tell the kid that I am not sure about God, afterlife, etc. I would teach them how to learn stuff on their own, experiment with thought/reality exercises (no, not drugs) and use their own brain to determine what is true and what is right.

As to morals, I would teach the premise of compassion. But I would show them the benefits of being compassionate and not threaten them with hellfire if they are bad.

If I were to ever catch a teacher or some other "authority figure" adult teaching my kid "there is no God" or "there is a God", or "you'll burn in hell if you don't believe right", or "you are going to be worm food when you die" as though any of these propositions were fact, and do so to the point that the kid starts to lose his sense of reasoning for himself, well that "teacher" would sure catch hell from me.
 
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