The Synonymous Attributes of Faith and Obedience

[TER]

It was my understanding that the OP was discussing the importance of obedience to God. If I misunderstood it, and it is in fact 'solely about justification', then I ask of your forgiveness and I will bow out and allow you to continue.

 

[TER]

This is the HEART of the gospel, TER.

If we are not justified by faith alone, then Christianity is no different than any other works-based man-made religious system.

This is the WHY there was a Reformation.

And before there was a Reformation, there was a Church.

 

[Sola_Fide]

It was my understanding that the OP was discussing the importance of obedience to God. If I misunderstood it, and it is in fact 'solely about justification', then I ask of your forgiveness and I will bow out and allow you to continue.

Well, I got the feeling that it was about justification. But, I could be wrong. But obedience is clearly important, its just not what justifies us.

We are obedient *because* we have been justified, we don't become obedient to gain justification.

 

[Theocrat]

Did Jesus Primarily Preach on Justification?

This is the HEART of the gospel, TER.

If we are not justified by faith alone, then Christianity is no different than any other works-based man-made religious system.

This is the WHY there was a Reformation.

Where in the Gospels did Jesus ever preach justification by faith?*

*I do not deny that we are justified by faith alone, for that is taught in the Scriptures. However, I want to know how "justification by faith alone" is at the heart of the Gospel accounts of Jesus ministry.

 

[Sola_Fide]

Where in the Gospels did Jesus ever preach justification by faith?*

*I do not deny that we are justified by faith alone, for that is taught in the Scriptures. However, I want to know how "justification by faith alone" is at the heart of the Gospel accounts of Jesus ministry.

Well, I suppose I meant "gospel" in the grand sense of the word, not particularly in one of the 4 gospels.

Edit: now that you make me think about it Theo, I wouldn't say that justification by faith is the very heart of the gospel, you're right. More so, it was the heart of the Reformation, which in my mind was what I was thinking about. So forgive my misspeaking there.

Edit #2: Now that I have read a couple of excellent articles about how important this doctrine is, I actually might be bold enough to say it is "the heart of the gospel".

 

[Constitutionalist-Tom]

Well, I got the feeling that it was about justification. But, I could be wrong. But obedience is clearly important, its just not what justifies us.

We are obedient *because* we have been justified, we don't become obedient to gain justification.

I agree merely performing works will in no justify anyone, it is by faith in Christ sacrifice ceansong us from sin, but after we are justified we must be obeidiant to christ, if we sin, I didnt say slip, i amrefering to a willfull conscience choice to defy Gods law, we are no linger justified and repentance is required to return to our former state of justification

 

[YumYum]

Faith - 7

Works - 7

It's a tie.

 

[YumYum]

I agree merely performing works will in no justify anyone, it is by faith in Christ sacrifice ceansong us from sin, but after we are justified we must be obeidiant to christ, if we sin, I didnt say slip, i amrefering to a willfull conscience choice to defy Gods law, we are no linger justified and repentance is required to return to our former state of justification

Do you believe in "once saved, always saved"?

 

[Sola_Fide]

I agree merely performing works will in no justify anyone, it is by faith in Christ sacrifice ceansong us from sin, but after we are justified we must be obeidiant to christ, if we sin, I didnt say slip, i amrefering to a willfull conscience choice to defy Gods law, we are no linger justified and repentance is required to return to our former state of justification

No. It is impossible to once be legally declared as justified and then to be unjustified again.

The one who willfully sins was never justified in the first place.

 

[YumYum]

Judas was an apostle. He was picked by the Father.

 

[Constitutionalist-Tom]

Do you believe in "once saved, always saved"?

No I do not believe in the OSAS doctrine.

Heb 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
Heb 10:27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
Heb 10:28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
Heb 10:29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye,* shall he be thought worthy,* who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified,* an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
Heb 10:30 For we know him that hath said,* Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense,* saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.
Heb 10:31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

 

[TER]

I just found this saying by St. Macarius the Great, and thought it fit nicely with what the OP was suggesting...

"Divine grace arranged things in such a way that everyone participates in spiritual growth as he chooses, according to his own will, his own labor, and his own effort, in proportion to his faith and zeal. The more one loves, the more one gives oneself to the fight, in one’s body and in one’s soul, in order to accomplish the commandments, the greater the communion one achieves with the Spirit into the Spiritual growth of the renewing of the mind; acquiring salvation by grace and divine gift, but receiving by faith, by love, and by effort of free choice, progress and increase in the measure of the spiritual age. Thus eternal life will be inherited by grace, but also in all righteousness, since it is not only through the divine grace and power without human collaboration and effort that progress is made; nor is it only by one’s own power, one’s own effort and one’s own strength, without the collaboration and help of the Holy Spirit, that the perfect accomplishment of the divine will and full measure of all freedom and purity shall be reached."

 

[TER]

From St. Clement of Alexandria, again touching on the relation between faith and obedience:

Let us not merely call him Lord, for that will not save us. For he says, “Not everyone who says to me, Lord, Lord, will be saved, but he who does what is right” (Matt. 7:21). Thus, brothers, let us acknowledge him by our actions, by loving one another, by refraining from adultery, backbiting, and jealousy, and by being self-controlled, compassionate, kind. We ought to have sympathy for one another and not to be avaricious. Let us acknowledge him by acting in this way and not by doing the opposite. We ought not to have greater fear of men than of God. That is why, if you act in this way, the Lord said, “If you are gathered with me in my bosom and do not keep my commands, I will cast you out and will say to you: ‘Depart from me. I do not know whence you come, you workers of iniquity.’”

 

[Deborah K]

Welcome, Tom.