The Slander of 'Blowback'

[TaftFan]

If not, then WHY THE FUCK ARE AMERICANS THERE DYING? If you want to go, then go. Leave my money in my pocket and let anyone over there that doesn't want to die for Syria come the fuck home.

Because ISIS doesn't appreciate journalists exposing their horrors and likes taunting civilization.

The way I see it, the military is voluntary, so I don't necessarily have to go. I think anybody who wants to withhold their money from war should be able to. Of course, I never even advocated putting ground troops in Syria.

But since you bring up Syria...are they attacking Assad because of the U.S. and Israel? No, and it is self obvious.

 

[pcosmar]

When all else fails, make baseless accusations against the CIA.

One of the CIAs first operations was the overthrow of a Legitimate Government, installing a ruthless Dictator and building a Vicious Police State.
Domestically,, they ran the MKUltra Programs.

CIA crimes are far beyond my darkest imaginings,, and are documented.
not baseless.

 

[TaftFan]

You've interviewed every one of them, have you? Know Farsi, do you?

Firstly, it's their land. They have a right to be offended, and we have a right to go home.

Secondly, I'm tired of seeing blood and treasure spilled in every oil producing country that ever sneaks a little oil out the door for something other than petrodollars. If the Fed want to increase demand for their product, and the oil companies want control of the oil fields, I don't see why they aren't making enough money to handle those costs of doing business. Better them than my grandchildren.

They have a right to be offended by all this. We have a right to be offended by paying the costs of the oil companies to do business and the costs of the Fed expanding their market share. If you want to keep bombing brown babies until they're ghettoized, traumatized and pissed at you, fine. Can't you leave the rest of us out of it?

It's their land? Really? If I organize a gang and go on a multi-state rampage, is all of that my land? I assume you are responding to my ISIS and Boko Haram references.

I don't support wars for the purpose of conquering oil fields. I don't think that ended up being the case in Iraq; neoconservative ideology was the reason. I would support action if trade routes are being obstructed. That is a legitimate use of force.

If you don't like a pic of Mohammed, you can be offended. If you don't like Israel, you can be offended. But you don't have a right to blow up people because you are offended. And I don't believe people should bend to their bullying. Sure, try to avoid offending them when you can, just on a practical basis. But they shouldn't dictate what governments or free people do.

 

[TaftFan]

One of the CIAs first operations was the overthrow of a Legitimate Government, installing a ruthless Dictator and building a Vicious Police State.
Domestically,, they ran the MKUltra Programs.

CIA crimes are far beyond my darkest imaginings,, and are documented.
not baseless.

The CIA was founded in 1947. It is a late comer to radical, violent Islam.

 

[HVACTech]

I don't think you read what I posted.

Blowback causes many to radicalize. I completely acknowledge that. But it isn't the cause of violent, radical Islam itself. If it were all simply about retaliation, then there wouldn't be a religious component.

Blowback from interventionism didn't create Sharia law. Radical, violent Islamic terrorism predated the United States.

Blowback from interventionism didn't create Sharia law. Radical, violent Islamic terrorism predated the United States.

the crusades during the 3rd Roman empire also predated the USA.

 

[pcosmar]

The CIA was founded in 1947. It is a late comer to radical, violent Islam.

Radical Islam did not exist prior.
Islam did.
and there were small cults within it,, ignored and rejected by most. (much like several cults and sects within Judaism or Christianity)

Radicalized Islam is a product of our meddling in Afghanistan and elsewhere.
It was used as a recruiting tool to bring fighters to Afghanistan.

 

[The Gold Standard]

But since you bring up Syria...are they attacking Assad because of the U.S. and Israel? No, and it is self obvious.

I don't care why they are attacking Assad. I don't live in Syria and never will. I do know they are doing it with our money and weapons. How far along would they be without that?

See, that is what blowback means. Unintended consequences from meddling in other people's affairs that come back to bite you in the ass.

 

[pcosmar]

I don't care why they are attacking Assad. I don't live in Syria and never will. I do know they are doing it with our money and weapons. How far along would they be without that?

The fighters in Syria were recruited from all over Europe.. They were Thugs and neerdowells that were paid to come and fight.
There were a few enemies of Assad from Syria that had no means of opposing or deposing him on their own.
The rest were hired mercenaries.

 

[acptulsa]

But they shouldn't dictate what governments or free people do.

You don't think Hussein had a right, or Assad has a right, to say what 'governments of free peoples' do on the lands they rule(d)?

 

[pcosmar]

The CIA was founded in 1947.

It has been a curse since inception.

 

[TaftFan]

Radical Islam did not exist prior.
Islam did.
and there were small cults within it,, ignored and rejected by most. (much like several cults and sects within Judaism or Christianity)

Radicalized Islam is a product of our meddling in Afghanistan and elsewhere.
It was used as a recruiting tool to bring fighters to Afghanistan.

You are referring to Al Qaeda, not radical Islam at large.

I don't care why they are attacking Assad. I don't live in Syria and never will. I do know they are doing it with our money and weapons. How far along would they be without that?

See, that is what blowback means. Unintended consequences from meddling in other people's affairs that come back to bite you in the ass.

You are just supporting what I have said. That radical Islam is the problem, but U.S. policies have helped grow it. I certainly agree about recognizing unintended consequences. That also includes the consequences of not acting, but, on balance, I believe in very limited and small involvement in the Middle East. If radical Islam is the enemy, the key to fighting it is twofold: kill existing foes, and mitigate the recruitment of new ones. But I do believe I the first part of the equation, and many at RPI don't (Michael Scheuer being an exception).

 

[enhanced_deficit]

They hate us cuz we have freedoms.

John McCain-led delegation meets Saudi crown prince on Syrian rebel training

By Haaretz | Jan. 18, 2015 | 8:16 AM


A delegation of U.S. senators led by John McCain has met with Saudi Arabia's crown prince in the kingdom, where talks focused on the training of Syrian rebels.
A message on the official Twitter feed for McCain, a Republican from Arizona, said that the U.S. delegation also met Saturday with the head of the Western-backed Syrian National Coalition, Ahmed al-Jarba, and the commander of Saudi Arabia's training and equipment program. They also met in Qatar with the country's emir.


http://www.haaretz.com/news/middle-e...dates/1.637663




Related

A "five year problem" is being create by neocons. Sort of like "ten year problem" that was created in Afghanistan in 70s that unfortunately ended up being 40 year problem and counting.

Bad news for modern women of Syria though and all the population.


Photo Essay: Crash course on origins of Al Qaeda

Afghanistan in 1970s before the US intervention with Saudi/Israeli help:


Click here to view the original image of 800x507px.

Click here to view the original image of 800x507px.

And then came the trainers of Jihadi freedom fighters :

USA prints textbooks to support Jihad in Afghanistan and Pakistan

http://supportdanielboyd.wordpress.c...-and-pakistan/

Click here to view the original image of 1024x765px.

Click here to view the original image of 1024x765px.

US/Saudi/Israeli backed Afghani Jihadis with help from foreign fighters like OBL defeat invading Russian "infidels" triggering collapse of Russian economy and eventual collapse of USSR. Israel was second largest supplier of weapons to Jihadi "freedom fighters" in Afghanistan. Saudis helped with funding of the great Afghan Jihad and by flooding the market with cheap oil (prices dropped from over $100 p/b to $20 p/b) to hit Russian economy at the same time.


1980s/90s:
With collapse of USSR following "success" of Afghan Jihad, Soviet Jewish immigration to Israel/Palestinian territories and settlements growth explodes
Palestinians and Arab street angered by new settlers influx and continuous settlements expansion

Jewsih Immigration from Former Soviet Union to Israeli

2001:

Aftermath

2003:

2008:

Bin Laden: Palestinian Cause Prompted 9/11 - CBS News
May 16, 2008

 

[acptulsa]

They hate us cuz we have freedoms.

If that were it, they'd hate us a damned sight less now than they did fourteen years ago. But to hear the media tell it, nothing could be further from the truth...

 

[TaftFan]

You don't think Hussein had a right, or Assad has a right, to say what 'governments of free peoples' do on the lands they rule(d)?

I don't see how any libertarian could consider them legitimate rulers, but that is another issue. The reason I don't think despots like them should normally be overthrown are for practical reasons (power vacuum, cost to taxpayers, troop losses, etc.), not because they don't deserve to be taken out.

Now certainly, a citizen living their has every right to be mad as hell about occupation and collateral damage. That is why occupations are horrible idea and we should keep a low profile when taking out terrorist cells. (Countries do not have a right to harbor terrorists anymore than churches have the right to harbor murderers.)

My view is this. If some Muslim in Saudi Arabia doesn't like Islam being slandered, or if some Iranian doesn't like Israel existing, well tough. Their demands are unreasonable, and their demands should not be met in reaction to their bullying.

 

[Slave Mentality]

When the term gets abused, it causes Americans to dismiss it out of Hand..... .

Kind of like you have been spewing the "violent, radical, Islam" line on point like a good neocon? Abused like that? Easy to pick out the Fox bots.

Kill em all because they are violent and radical....... and don't forget Islamic. Sick of paying for the world police dude.

 

[The Gold Standard]

If radical Islam is the enemy, the key to fighting it is twofold: kill existing foes, and mitigate the recruitment of new ones.

Radical Islam wasn't the enemy until the U.S. government made it so. And killing existing foes is why more keep coming. The United States started the war, can not win the war, and should get the fuck out before we are all ruined or dead because of their folly.

 

[TaftFan]

They hate us cuz we have freedoms.

"They" do actually, although that isn't why most are willing to kill.

The fighters in Syria were recruited from all over Europe.. They were Thugs and neerdowells that were paid to come and fight.
There were a few enemies of Assad from Syria that had no means of opposing or deposing him on their own.
The rest were hired mercenaries.

The job market must be bad in Europe for them to die for a cause they don't believe in.

 

[acptulsa]

I don't see how any libertarian could consider them legitimate rulers, but that is another issue. The reason I don't think despots like them should normally be overthrown are for practical reasons (power vacuum, cost to taxpayers, troop losses, etc.), not because they don't deserve to be taken out.

Now certainly, a citizen living their has every right to be mad as hell about occupation and collateral damage. That is why occupations are horrible idea and we should keep a low profile when taking out terrorist cells. (Countries do not have a right to harbor terrorists anymore than churches have the right to harbor murderers.)

My view is this. If some Muslim in Saudi Arabia doesn't like Islam being slandered, or if some Iranian doesn't like Israel existing, well tough. Their demands are unreasonable, and their demands should not be met in reaction to their bullying.

The trouble with Corporate Welfare Through Imperialism is you're mucking around so much you can no longer tell the Mohammed avengers and the anti-Semite Semites from the people who hate you. And nobody's printing programs. I just don't see how imperialism is good for me, and I frankly don't see how Israel has been such a dear friend to me.

I want out.

 

[TaftFan]

Radical Islam wasn't the enemy until the U.S. government made it so. And killing existing foes is why more keep coming. The United States started the war, can not win the war, and should get the fuck out before we are all ruined or dead because of their folly.

Certainly the U.S. directed their attention towards us. But we are where we are. Surrender isn't an option, nor is ignoring the situation. That is why we must continue to kill as many as we can while doing what we can to reduce their recruitment measures. We need to forget democracy. We need to stop opposing secular governmements who oppose Muslim terrorists and reduce the amount of real estate that the terrorists inhabit over time.

Kind of like you have been spewing the "violent, radical, Islam" line on point like a good neocon? Abused like that? Easy to pick out the Fox bots.

Kill em all because they are violent and radical....... and don't forget Islamic. Sick of paying for the world police dude.

If I were abusing terms, I would have just referred to Muslims in general...

 

[The Gold Standard]

Certainly the U.S. directed their attention towards us. But we are where we are. Surrender isn't an option, nor is ignoring the situation. That is why we must continue to kill as many as we can while doing what we can to reduce their recruitment measures. We need to forget democracy. We need to stop opposing secular governmements who oppose Muslim terrorists and reduce the amount of real estate that the terrorists inhabit over time.

Killing as many as you can IS their recruitment measures. And WE don't need to do shit. You can do whatever you want. They need to leave me and my money alone and stop sending Americans to die for nothing.