The Slander of 'Blowback'

[ghengis86]

This has got to be one of the stupidest fucking threads ever.

 

[acptulsa]

That is why we must continue to kill as many as we can while doing what we can to reduce their recruitment measures.

The best way to reduce their recruitment is to ignore their measures and stop pissing off all the young men around them. Which involves having the sense and the humanity to stop killing people as a matter of rote or just because we're asshole enough to start it but not smart enough to stop it.

Otherwise you get war without end. Fuck a bunch of war without end.

We need to forget democracy.

Considering how many Americans want peace, and how little peace Americans are getting, it sure seems we already have.

Now tell me how I'm slandering war without end when I complain about it.

 

[pcosmar]

My view is this. If some Muslim in Saudi Arabia doesn't like Islam being slandered, or if some Iranian doesn't like Israel existing, well tough. .

And if some american doesn't like how Assad or Hussein,or Mosedec runs their country,,well tough..

except that Might makes Right,, right?

and by what "right" did the UN,, or the Rothschild Empire have to give Palestine to the Zionists?

 

[ghengis86]

Certainly the U.S. directed their attention towards us. But we are where we are. Surrender isn't an option, nor is ignoring the situation. That is why we must continue to kill as many as we can while doing what we can to reduce their recruitment measures. We need to forget democracy. We need to stop opposing secular governmements who oppose Muslim terrorists and reduce the amount of real estate that the terrorists inhabit over time.



If I were abusing terms, I would have just referred to Muslims in general...

Who the fuck is this 'we' you speak of? Are you enciting violence?

"We must kill as many as we can"
Hmmm...really awesome statement to be making on a public, Ron Paul, libertarian affiliated forum. GTFO shithead.

Alright, ban this (mod edit) before I go off

 

[pcosmar]

Surrender isn't an option,.

Yes it is.. just not an option being considered.

Of course,, neither is just quitting a war we started and apologizing for starting it.

I do not expect such anyway.. I am a Believer in the words of the Bible.. and I know the end of all this,, and it's root cause.

It is not Islam,, nor Christianity,, nor Judaism.

It is Lucifarian.

It was foretold long ago and is playing out in our time.

 

[TaftFan]

Who the fuck is this 'we' you speak of? Are you enciting violence?

"We must kill as many as we can"
Hmmm...really awesome statement to be making on a public, Ron Paul, libertarian affiliated forum. GTFO shithead.

Alright, ban this (mod edit) before I go off

 

[otherone]

When all else fails, make baseless accusations against the CIA.

 

[charrob]

http://www.nationalreview.com/article/396879/slander-blowback-kevin-d-williamson

Williamson is making a point that needs to be said and the whole article is worth reading.

I feel like the stuff coming out of RPI reads like this, "Kid A stuck his tongue out at Kid B, and as a result Kid B threw a rock at Kid A. This is due to blowback. If only the kid would not stick his tongue out, this would have never happened."

TaftFan your article is based on the attack in France. However the guy in the Charlie Hebdo attack acknowledged that his anger originally came from U.S. operations in the region [ie. blowback]:

Sharif said, “It was everything I saw on the television, the torture at Abu Ghraib prison, all that, which motivated me.”​

 

[ghengis86]

Really (mod edit)? You can't form your own argument so you use an easily destructible one from CIA spook Schuer? Good job.

USSR: the Soviets lost the Cold War and their empire, not because they lost soooooooooo many Soviet civilians and military personnel, but because they went bankrupt, tits up and couldn't maintain their hegemony. Schuer is a (mod edit) and so are you for appealing to him.

 

[Christian Liberty]

I think blowback is overused to some degree but one reason it is brought up so much is that it is so hard to get Americans to admit it even exists.

If you can agree, like the author, that it does exist then we have a duty to find out how to minimize it.

Indeed.

When the term gets abused, it causes Americans to dismiss it out of hand. RPI is it's own worst enemy.

Intelligent people can debate the details regarding blowback. But the average "patriotic" American is too stupid to even realize there is a genuine problem. Even if RPI is taking it too far (I am not convinced this is the case), these types of things aren't really preventing Americans from taking blowback seriously. If an American who is actually intelligent thinks RPI is taking it too far, they won't be so stupid as to lump all "blowback" positions as being 100% identical. The "rah rah 'murica" flag wavers are unlikely to wake up anyway. Try once or twice, then just mock them if they don't at least start opening their eyes. They cannot be helped. Mock them even more if they have the audacity to attend church. The Christian church needs to be purged of nationalistic state-worshippers.

 

[NewRightLibertarian]

Piss on every last (mod edit) trying to infiltrate and water down the liberty movement.

Long live the Ron Paul Institute!

 

[Christian Liberty]

Michael Scheuer is brilliant, but he's also got an American-centric worldview, which is a product of his time in the CIA.

I have a Bible-centric worldview.

Because of that, I prioritize morality, not America's standing in the world being maintained.

Scheuer is probably right from a utilitarian standpoint. From a moral standpoint, I would say American governmental and military leaders would have a right to follow his proposed course only if they had no other choice. And only to protect the American people. America has no moral grounding to seek revenge. Because, you know, blowback and all that. Defend your relative moral superiority all you want, but in absolute terms, both sides are wrong and its not even close.

And "if you have no other choice" means you should try apologizing for all the collateral damage and trying to make peace first.

And never, ever poke a hornets nest with a stick. And, if you have to fight, limit damage to the combatants and leave the results to God. Collateral damage is never OK.

 

[NorthCarolinaLiberty]

Boko Haram is not trying to establish a Sharia state in Africa in order to get back at Israel.

They played in Africa? Awesome.

 

[NorthCarolinaLiberty]

Sounds like a double standard. One group of people gets defended for free speech, while others get criticized. Those cartoons are free speech and all in good fun in one context (France), but they become hate speech and eventually hate crimes in another context (US).

 

[dannno]

Unfortunately the OP doesn't know what the definition of blowback is.

The definition of blowback is retaliation for covert activities.

Blowback is unintended consequences of a covert operation that are suffered by the aggressor. To the civilians suffering the blowback of covert operations, the effect typically manifests itself as “random” acts of political violence without a discernible, direct cause; because the public—in whose name the intelligence agency acted—are unaware of the effected secret attacks that provoked revenge (counter-attack) against them.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blowback_(intelligence)

So you've completely missed the point when you don't accept that we've spent billions of dollars covertly radicalizing Muslim extremists, as well as trillions of dollars radicalizing them through military action we've taken for the purpose of economic control of their lands. This is typical of people who believe neocon propaganda and aren't will to accept the realities of our past actions, but rather believe the cleansed version fed to them by mainstream media. They don't know the true amount of blood on their hands.

Schooled.

The mods should really move this post to #2.

 

[Occam's Banana]

To whatever degree anything can be attributed to "radical Islam" and "evil Muslims" ... well ... so what?

If you go around waving red flags in the faces of "radical" and "evil" bulls, then you should expect to get your ass gored. And putting the blame for your bloodied and mangled hindparts on the "evilness" of the bulls (rather than on your stupidity and foolhardiness in having waved red flags in their faces) is nothing but an obfuscatory dodge.

As true and correct as it may be, that "radical Islam" may be composed of some number of "evil bulls" is NOT sufficient to explain why those bulls are charging at YOU. Going on about how evil they are is only relevant to a description of what they are doing - not why (nor to whom) they are doing it.

To say that a man who has committed a murder is "evil" may be entirely proper and true, but that only serves to characterize his deed - it does absolutely NOTHING to explain why the deed was done (or why it was done to that particular victim).

IOW: However despicably evil they may be, "radical Islamists" did not throw a dart at a map of the world in order to identify the "Great Satan" against which their efforts would be directed. If you desire not to be the target of those efforts, then stop giving them a reason to target you. Just put down the red flags and walk away. Waving more red flags - or waving them more vigorously - is only going to attract more charging bulls ...

 

[A Son of Liberty]

Certainly the U.S. directed their attention towards us. But we are where we are. Surrender isn't an option, nor is ignoring the situation. That is why we must continue to kill as many as we can while doing what we can to reduce their recruitment measures.

The fail here is so catastrophically strong that it sent a ripple of stupid through the internet and gave me a nose bleed.

This right here is why we are good and fucked... because people like this are of the majority opinion in this "country". Ain't no election gonna unfuck it, either.

 

[ghengis86]

Piss on every last (mod edit) trying to infiltrate and water down the liberty movement.

Long live the Ron Paul Institute!

The fail here is so catastrophically strong that it sent a ripple of stupid through the internet and gave me a nose bleed.

This right here is why we are good and fucked... because people like this are of the majority opinion in this "country". Ain't no election gonna unfuck it, either.

Yep, we're doomed with moronic opinions that the solution to stop past killing is to ensure so much future killing that the killing stops. So. Damned. Stupid.

 

[RonPaulFanInGA]

The slander of “blowback”: Yes, Ron Paul and his allies are blaming the victim

http://www.nationalreview.com/article/396879/slander-blowback-kevin-d-williamson

Ron Paul would have nowhere to go intellectually without tu quoque. He’s a surgeon with one instrument in his bag, what The Economist used to call “whataboutism.”

Does U.S. and European foreign policy — bad policy and good — play a role in provoking the enemies of the United States and Europe? Of course — how could it possibly be otherwise? But what is the conclusion to be drawn? Never do anything that might rub Mullah Mohammed Omar or like-minded men the wrong way? Give any entity willing to bomb pizza shops as a mode of political discourse effective veto power over U.S. policy?

While we should not underestimate the role of foreign policy in motivating jihadists, we should not exaggerate it, either.

As Roger Cukierman of the Conseil Représentatif des Institutions Juives de France says: “They are not screaming ‘Death to the Israelis’ on the streets of Paris — they are screaming ‘Death to Jews.’”

 

[moostraks]

It's their land? Really? If I organize a gang and go on a multi-state rampage, is all of that my land?

So curious, is the United States also illegitimate? Upon what basis do you have right to the land you are currently occupying and what efforts were taken by your ancestors for you to hold this right by which you feel entitled to intercede in the affairs of others?