the sheeple still rate FDR #1 pres

[Travlyr]

you are never free, not even under pure anarchy. There will always be a group with some power or control over most within their own country, state, and/or communities.

Whoever controls the money supply controls society.

 

[pandalover]

Whoever controls the money supply controls society.

I'd rather be controlled under a democratic government than a bunch of Walton families

 

[Travlyr]

I'd rather be controlled under a democratic government than a bunch of Walton families

Sorry, but you don't get that choice.

 

[Dr.3D]

If you think Lincoln was a bad president, then you must not have a brain

And if you believe he was a good president, then you must believe what you were told in the government run schools.

 

[-C-]

And if you believe he was a good president, then you must believe what you were told in the government run schools.

I went to a private school my entire life, with conservative culture. Seems to me that the south were pawns to the British, via Lord Palmerston. The South exported 80% of their cotton to Britain. I mean the KKK, whom Boothe was a member of, started an as intelligence service for the confederacy. They had offices in Canada and London. The British were ready to accept the Confederate's Independence, first, before anyone else. Until Lincoln threatened war, and tensions that resulted from the Trent Affair, forcing London to back off. I mean the war of 1812 with the British, which didn't end in 1812, had just ended just a few decades before. We were still the greatest threat to Imperialism on the planet, and they tried to destroy us from within.

Lincoln's economic policies were an explicitly adverse policy to that of the British Empire's Merritime Dominance over Trade and floating values in Currency. The Same so-called "Free Trade" dogma that many buy into here.

 

[Legend1104]

I went to a private school my entire life, with conservative culture. Seems to me that the south were pawns to the British, via Lord Palmerston. The South exported 80% of their cotton to Britain. I mean the KKK, whom Boothe was a member of, started an as intelligence service for the confederacy. They had offices in Canada and London. The British were ready to accept the Confederate's Independence, first, before anyone else. Until Lincoln threatened war, and tensions that resulted from the Trent Affair, forcing London to back off. I mean the war of 1812 with the British, which didn't end in 1812, had just ended just a few decades before. We were still the greatest threat to Imperialism on the planet, and they tried to destroy us from within.

Lincoln's economic policies were an explicitly adverse policy to that of the British Empire's Merritime Dominance over Trade and floating values in Currency. The Same so-called "Free Trade" dogma that many buy into here.

I don't know how this always turns into a lincoln/civil war debate, but oh well. What does the relationship between Britain and the South have to do with Lincoln being a good or bad president. Lincoln was a bad president because he violated virtually every one of the Bill of Rights. He had people arrested who spoke out against him, he had guns confiscated, he deported a U.S. citizen, he had almost and entire stae legislature arrested, he shut down newspapers, condoned pileage, rape, the destruction of entire cities, supended habeas corpus, and I could go on. No one in the south really wanted a war. In fact many hoped and believed a war would never come. Just because the South left the U.S. did not mean a war was bound to happen, but Lincoln was determined to bring the south back, no matter the cost. The many reason was because he needed them for his American System.

 

[Theocrat]

That's a Hoot

He saved us from the laissez-faire capitalism of the Roaring 20s!

I laughed out loud at that. Also, I'd like to thank you for making me spit out my cookies.

 

[-C-]

I don't know how this always turns into a lincoln/civil war debate, but oh well. What does the relationship between Britain and the South have to do with Lincoln being a good or bad president. Lincoln was a bad president because he violated virtually every one of the Bill of Rights. He had people arrested who spoke out against him, he had guns confiscated, he deported a U.S. citizen, he had almost and entire stae legislature arrested, he shut down newspapers, condoned pileage, rape, the destruction of entire cities, supended habeas corpus, and I could go on. No one in the south really wanted a war. In fact many hoped and believed a war would never come. Just because the South left the U.S. did not mean a war was bound to happen, but Lincoln was determined to bring the south back, no matter the cost. The many reason was because he needed them for his American System.

I think you have this fairytale view of "War." As if it is pleasant, and as if the President had control over immediate actions taken by generals in the field at the time, on either side. You think Jefferson Davis, patsy to the Queen of England, would have allowed Lee to do what he did at Gettysburg, costing the lives of thousands with some rediculious Banzi charge uphill? You act like the south didnt rape, pillage, burn, execute people, or thrive off looting the labor-value of mankind. My Ancestry is almost entirely of the Confederate Breed. They were traitors, pawns to the Imperial Body we Declared Independence from. The same Imperial System controls Obama today, centered London, and it's control over wallstreet and the floating Forex.

The American System of Economics is rooted in Hamiltons own writing in the Federalist Papers, and his Report on Manufactures, and two reports on Public Credit. The one you reference used by Lincoln. Which Germany and Russia both modeled their economies on in the post-lincoln era. Thus leading the British to get them to fight amongst themselves in WWI, b/c they threatened the Empires merritime dominance. The Czar of Russia, and Chancellor of Germany at the time were cousins, and Prince, later King, Edward was their Uncle.

 

[Galileo Galilei]

And if you believe he was a good president, then you must believe what you were told in the government run schools.

You know, I went went to government run schools and never got the impression that Lincoln was a great man. This is coming from someone in Wisconsin. My imnpressions of Stonewall Jackson were better than Lincoln and even Robert E. Lee was better. We even have a historical monument near opur home regardignthe Black Hak war. Both Jefferson Davis and Abe Lincoln were in that war as soldiers (so was Zachary Taylor). But that's not really a big deal, doesn't impress me a whole lot.

Or just watch the PBS Civil War documetary by Ken Burns? After 9 episdoes, what exactly did Lincoln do? Not a whole lot. He tried to micro-mamange the troops. He never said or did anything positive about the Constitution. He had little experience. He didn't write any books. He never trie to negotiate peace to shorten the war. He was just a very average guy. Even his celebrated Gettysburg Address doesn't really grab me. Its very very short and doesn't say all that much. Lincoln should be listed as an average president, not a great president. I'm glad to see that he has at least dropped to # 3 in this poll.

 

[low preference guy]

Lincoln should be listed as an average president, not a great president.

More like worst President. He turned a voluntary union into an union maintained by coercion. No other President has done something more damaging.

 

[-C-]

More like worst President. He turned a voluntary union into an union maintained by coercion. No other President has done something more damaging.

You suggest the union didn't almost come apart in 1812 due to "coercion," or that it wasn't already coming apart by "coercion' before Licoln was even elected, which was the intended policy of Lord Palmerston of Britain at the time.

 

[Galileo Galilei]

More like worst President. He turned a voluntary union into an union maintained by coercion. No other President has done something more damaging.

That's totally false. Wilson did that with a structural change, the 17th Amendment. And also the 16th Amendment.

The structural changes after Lincoln were positive; the 13th Amendment banned slavery. The 14th Amendment banned states from depriving citizens fo life, liberty, property, priviledges, or immunites of citizens. This is what James Madison adviocated a long tome before. The Bill-of-Rights already bans the federal govenment from doing this.

This is the proper way to structure the government, give the central less power to regulate and legislate, and more power to enforce indiviual rights.

Wilson was far far worse than Lincoln. I think you are statist with pro-slavery sympathies and pro-Wilson sympathies. I defend individual liberty.

 

[low preference guy]

That's totally false.

If it's false that Lincoln turned a voluntary union into an union kept by force, why the South was forced to stay as part of the union?

 

[low preference guy]

I think you are statist with pro-slavery sympathies and pro-Wilson sympathies. I defend individual liberty.

Do you know what assuming makes you? I don't like Wilson. He is the second worst President. I also oppose slavery. That's why I oppose Lincoln's use of enslaved soldiers (drafted soldiers) to fight the war. If you are going to fight slavery, you shouldn't do it with a slave army, i.e., through conscription. I of course approve of all efforts people were making to free slaves that don't involve the enslaving of others through conscription.

 

[Uncle Emanuel Watkins]

Not everyone has a business to mind

Looks like we have a resident socialist/communist.

First of all, the so-called "robber barons" made your life possible. Yeah, they did some bad shit - they also did a lot of good. Without those guys, there would be no internet, for example - and you'd have probably died of diphtheria or some other horrid disease in your childhood. Forming institutions such as the Fed were acts of evil, I agree, but credit where due on all fronts.

Far more people benefitted from the activities in question than suffered from them. That aside, all things have their associated costs, including "progress". Had the bucolic life been actually better than that found in the cities, the industrial revolution would have fizzled. It boomed because people WANTED to participate. They wanted to because conditions in the cities, poor as they may be by OUR standards, was still better than those back on the farm. People are often pretty dumb, but not quite so much as one would be lead to infer by your assertions. There was nobody marching workers into factories at the ends of guns. They came of their own will. Conditions often sucked, but that was the nature of business in those times. You cannot judge them by current standards quite to the degree your words imply.

FDR's interferences with the market dragged the depression on for 13 years. Had he kept his mitts off, the crash would have been felt for maybe 6 months and we would have been recovered. The previous market crash... what was it.... 1920... don't recall offhand at the moment... Harding was urged almost to the point of violence to interfere. He steadfastly refuses, earning him the wrath of the money trust, but that crash, every bit as bad as that of '29, was fully recovered from in a few months. FDR was the penultimate American fascist.

As the king's business will always be deemed official, thus being one that he can mind, the little prostitute's business will always be one that is deemed illegal. Therefore, she has no business to mind. If I decide to forfeit my business to keep out of her business, that is my choice. In other words, we don't have to do anything to avoid being deadbeats. The true deadbeat is the corporate dad. He is the one with many wives and lots of children. He works hard at creating inequity. He is the one the courts have to just shrug their shoulders at. What can they do with a man who has so many children? Still, in the back of their minds, the courts have to marvel at his business. Wow! What a man!

 

[Galileo Galilei]

If it's false that Lincoln turned a voluntary union into an union kept by force, why the South was forced to stay as part of the union?

Not true. The South have re-seceded if they wanted to.

 

[Galileo Galilei]

Do you know what assuming makes you? I don't like Wilson. He is the second worst President. I also oppose slavery. That's why I oppose Lincoln's use of enslaved soldiers (drafted soldiers) to fight the war. If you are going to fight slavery, you shouldn't do it with a slave army, i.e., through conscription. I of course approve of all efforts people were making to free slaves that don't involve the enslaving of others through conscription.

Most of the soldiers in the Civl war volunteered. Lincon did not change the Constitution, he just violated it. Wilson was worse because he supported the change in the Constitution.

 

[low preference guy]

Most of the soldiers in the Civl war volunteered.

Of all the buildings McVeigh visited, he didn't bomb most of them.

 

[-C-]

If it's false that Lincoln turned a voluntary union into an union kept by force, why the South was forced to stay as part of the union?

Is it false that the Confederacy was backed by, and capitulating with the same Empire we declared Independence from, and were at war with not even 30 years prior to the Civil war? They were forced to stay a part of the Union b/c Lincoln won a war which was really against the British Empire and the United States remained Soveriegn and not subject to British Control, up unto the point of the assassination of President William McKinley, which was also at the hand of London.

I think you're a British Imperial Sympathizer that subscribes to the Imperial "Free Trade/Market" Policies of Adam Smith of London School of Economics, contrary to the American System.

 

[RM918]

Of course they voted FDR the top. In the American Mythos, he went to Mount Berlin with his buddies Churchill and Stalin to slay the evil Lord Hitler, bringing peace to the land forever after.

It may not be very true or so glorious, but it makes a good story and it puffs up everyone's egos, so it may as well be the truth.