The Rockwell Manifesto

You can't have complete liberty without a morally just populace.

You are wrong. Socialists envision a "New Socialist Man" who will be a productive and happy citizen of a socialist paradise. In order for their socialist utopia to actually be a utopia the nature of man needs to change. With the free society, this is not so. All that is required for a free society to come about is for good people to stop supporting the State. Reigning in the State, making it follow the Constitution (for any length of time), now that is utopian thinking. If there are people in our society who are immoral, which obviously there are, where do you think they will gravitate to? Probably the monopoly on force (State). This is why you have competition in the realm of courts, police, etc. so that bad people can't utilize the power of an almighty State to enrich themselves at the expense of the citizens. And do all other sorts of horrible things, as my signature shows.
 
What It Means To Be an Anarcho-Capitalist

by N. Stephan Kinsella


Butler Shaffer’s recent LRC article, What is Anarchy?, prompted discussion on the Reason blog and inspired me to set down a few ideas I’ve also had along these lines.

Libertarian opponents of anarchy are attacking a straw man. Their arguments are usually utilitarian in nature and amount to "but anarchy won’t work" or "we need the (things provided by the) state." But these attacks are confused at best, if not disingenuous. To be an anarchist does not mean you think anarchy will "work" (whatever that means); nor that you predict it will or "can" be achieved. It is possible to be a pessimistic anarchist, after all. To be an anarchist only means that you believe that aggression is not justified, and that states necessarily employ aggression. And, therefore, that states, and the aggression they necessarily employ, are unjustified. It’s quite simple, really. It’s an ethical view, so no surprise it confuses utilitarians.

Accordingly, anyone who is not an anarchist must maintain either: (a) aggression is justified; or (b) states (in particular, minimal states) do not necessarily employ aggression.

Proposition (b) is plainly false. States always tax their citizens, which is a form of aggression. They always outlaw competing defense agencies, which also amounts to aggression. (Not to mention the countless victimless crime laws that they inevitably, and without a single exception in history, enforce on the populace. Why minarchists think minarchy is even possible boggles the mind.)

As for (a), well, socialists and criminals also feel aggression is justified. This does not make it so. Criminals, socialists, and anti-anarchists have yet to show how aggression – the initiation of force against innocent victims – is justified. No surprise; it is not possible to show this. But criminals don’t feel compelled to justify aggression; why should advocates of the state feel compelled to do so?

Conservative and minarchist-libertarian criticism of anarchy on the grounds that it won’t "work" or is not "practical" is just confused. Anarchists don’t (necessarily) predict anarchy will be achieved – I for one don’t think it will. But that does not mean states are justified.

Consider an analogy. Conservatives and libertarians all agree that private crime (murder, robbery, rape) is unjustified, and "should" not occur. Yet no matter how good most men become, there will always be at least some small element who will resort to crime. Crime will always be with us. Yet we still condemn crime and work to reduce it.

Is it logically possible that there could be no crime? Sure. Everyone could voluntarily choose to respect others’ rights. Then there would be no crime. It’s easy to imagine. But given our experience with human nature and interaction, it is safe to say that there will always be crime. Nevertheless, we still proclaim crime to be evil and unjustified, in the face of the inevitability of its recurrence. So to my claim that crime is immoral, it would just be stupid and/or insincere to reply, "but that’s an impractical view" or "but that won’t work," "since there will always be crime." The fact that there will always be crime – that not everyone will voluntarily respect others’ rights – does not mean that it’s "impractical" to oppose it; nor does it mean that crime is justified. It does not mean there is some "flaw" in the proposition that crime is wrong.

Likewise, to my claim that the state and its aggression is unjustified, it is disingenuous and/or confused to reply, "anarchy won’t work" or is "impractical" or "unlikely to ever occur."1 The view that the state is unjustified is a normative or ethical position. The fact that not enough people are willing to respect their neighbors’ rights to allow anarchy to emerge, i.e., the fact that enough people (erroneously) support the legitimacy of the state to permit it to exist, does not mean that the state, and its aggression, are justified.2

Other utilitarian replies like "but we need a state" do not contradict the claim that states employ aggression and that aggression is unjustified. It simply means that the state-advocate does not mind the initiation of force against innocent victims – i.e., he shares the criminal/socialist mentality. The private criminal thinks his own need is all that matters; he is willing to commit violence to satisfy his needs; to hell with what is right and wrong. The advocate of the state thinks that his opinion that "we" "need" things justifies committing or condoning violence against innocent individuals. It is as plain as that. Whatever this argument is, it is not libertarian. It is not opposed to aggression. It is in favor of something else – making sure certain public "needs" are met, despite the cost – but not peace and cooperation. The criminal, gangster, socialist, welfare-statist, and even minarchist all share this: they are willing to condone naked aggression, for some reason. The details vary, but the result is the same – innocent lives are trampled by physical assault. Some have the stomach for this; others are more civilized – libertarian, one might say – and prefer peace over violent struggle.

As there are criminals and socialists among us, it is no surprise that there is a degree of criminal-mindedness in most people. After all, the state rests upon the tacit consent of the masses, who have erroneously accepted the notion that states are legitimate. But none of that means the criminal enterprises condoned by the masses are justified.

It’s time for libertarians to take a stand. Are you for aggression, or against it?

Notes

1. Another point: in my view, we are about as likely to achieve minarchy as we are to achieve anarchy. I.e., both are remote possibilities. What is striking is that almost every criticism of "impracticality" that minarchist hurl at anarchy is also true of minarchy itself. Both are exceedingly unlikely. Both require massive changes in views among millions of people. Both rest on presumptions that most people simply don't care much about.
2. Though the case for anarchy does not depend on its likelihood or "feasibility," any more than the case against private crime depends on there never being any acts of crime, anarchy is clearly possible. There is anarchy among nations, for example. There is also anarchy within government, as pointed out in the seminal and neglected JLS article by Alfred G. Cuzán, "Do We Ever Really Get Out of Anarchy?" Cuzán argues that even the government itself is in anarchy, internally – the President does not literally force others in government to obey his comments, after all; they obey them voluntarily, due to a recognized, hierarchical structure. Government's (political) anarchy is not a good anarchy, but it demonstrates anarchy is possible – indeed, that we never really get out of it. And Shaffer makes the insightful point that we are in "anarchy" with our neighbors. If most people did not already have the character to voluntarily respect most of their neighbors’ rights, society and civilization would be impossible. Most people are good enough to permit civilization to occur, despite the existence of some degree of public and private crime. It is conceivable that the degree of goodness could rise – due to education or more universal economic prosperity, say – sufficient to make support for the legitimacy of states evaporate. It’s just very unlikely.

January 20, 2004
 
How stupid are you? In a free society, you follow the rules set by owners of private property. If you're on a road and the road owner doesn't want you to fire weapons on his road then you can't do it. Likewise, he can ban drinking and driving. Likewise, he can ban black people from his road. There is a built in penalty in that he will gain no revenue from black people. You're just another statist idiot flailing around for reasons to control the lives of others.


If you want private roads to have their own rules, go to Washington. I agree with allowing individuals to regulate what goes on, on their private property.

It can be argued though, that Congress' power to create post roads meant all roads, as there weren't vehicles when the Constitution was created so there was no need for many roads/highways. Who is to say the Founders wanted privately owned roads?
 
If you want private roads to have their own rules, go to Washington. I agree with allowing individuals to regulate what goes on, on their private property.

It can be argued though, that Congress' power to create post roads meant all roads, as there weren't vehicles when the Constitution was created so there was no need for many roads/highways. Who is to say the Founders wanted privately owned roads?

Who's to say the founders are right? Who's to say the Constitution is right?
 
Who's to say the founders are right? Who's to say the Constitution is right?

It is our "rule of law" until it is changed or removed.

If you don't like it, change it or remove it. That is why they implemented an amendment process.

It is not a perfect document, it does have it's flaws. I will not argue that.
 
The key here is that drunk driving increases the risk that others will be harmed. As long as we have a public road system, as we will for the foreseeable future, you agree to abide by a certain set of rules to use the road. This isn't the case when you are in the comfort of your own home when you choose to engage in risky behavior, because the negative ramifications of the behavior are limited to only affecting you. Example: starting a fire in your living room floor.

Similarly, you shouldn't legally be allowed to park your car on a freeway with the lights turned off and sit there. It endangers you - that's not the problem, nor is it with drunk driving. The problem is the other person on the road who has an accident due to your poor judgment.

There is a limit to what the state should do, and there are not many circumstances where the state should be active (rather than passive) in preventing crimes from occurring. However, if a person should morally have no control over the life and actions of another human being, how can you justify allowing another person to do something that deliberately increases the risk for all drivers on the road?
 
It is our "rule of law" until it is changed or removed.

If you don't like it, change it or remove it. That is why they implemented an amendment process.

It is not a perfect document, it does have it's flaws. I will not argue that.

LOL, classic answer. You make it sound like I just have to walk on over to the Constitution with some white out and a pen and make some changes.

But here's the reality. In order to amend the Constitution, you need a hell of a lot of people on your side. In other words, you need to be on the side of the democratic majority. Who's to say the majority is right? The fact is, majorities are often wrong. Democracy is no way to run a government if you value freedom at all.

But what if I don't want to be governed by your laws? What do I do then?

You say it is the "rule of law" but its not MY rule of law, it is YOUR rule of law. I don't accept it, and I don't have to. Sure, I will still be arrested and thrown in jail for breaking this set of rules I don't agree with, but how does that make it right? The only legitimate rules are the rules people set for their own private property, and the only law worth respecting is Natural Law. My rights are innate, government may violate them but that doesn't mean they don't exist. A right is simply a claim to exercise just violence against another person. For example, if I have the right to own justly acquired property, which I do, then I may use violence against you to stop you from taking it. My rights originate not from some god or government, but from logic and reason. There are rules that need to be respected in order for the human race to survive and thrive.
 
Just don't drink and drive.

If this were a direct violation of your Liberty, where it made it impossible for you to live in this country, I would side with you. However, driving drunk doesn't quality as such, as there is no benefit. There is not one benefit to driving drunk, if you can point me to one, maybe I'll change my mind.

I know, it sucks that the majority have control over you, but it's only for this minor situation. If you want to buy land, and build a road, and then drive drunk on it...do it. No one can take away your right to do that, nor should they have the power to do so. But driving drunk on public roads put lives in danger, that's not a fact you can argue against. You can't shoot your gun in public unless you have means to do so (protect your rights). If you can find me a reason for you to protect your rights, while driving drunk, I'll side with you.

Say you are being chased by a guy who wants to kill you, after you've been drinking, and you hop in a car and drive away to save yourself. Then a cop pulls you over and gives you a DUI for drunk driving, even though you were only doing it to save your life. You take your DUI to trial, and that's were jury nullification comes in.

But driving drunk, just for the hell of it, or because you're too lazy to find another way, is irresponsible and absolutely unwarranted. It should not be tolerated, as my right to live is more important than your right to drive drunk.
 
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Just don't drink and drive.

If this were a direct violation of your Liberty, where it made it impossible for you to live in this country, I would side with you. However, driving drunk doesn't quality as such, as there is no benefit. There is not one benefit to driving drunk, if you can point me to one, maybe I'll change my mind.

I know, it sucks that the majority have control over you, but it's only for this minor situation. If you want to buy land, and build a road, and then drive drunk on it...do it. No one can take away your right to do that, nor should they have the power to do so. But driving drunk on public roads put lives in danger, that's not a fact you can argue against. You can't shoot your gun in public unless you have means to do so (protect your rights). If you can find me a reason for you to protect your rights, while driving drunk, I'll side with you.

Say you are being chased by a guy who wants to kill you, after you've been drinking, and you hop in a car and drive away to save yourself. Then a cop pulls you over and gives you a DUI for drunk driving, even though you were only doing it to save your life. You take your DUI to trial, and that's were jury nullification comes in.

But driving drunk, just for the hell of it, or because you're too lazy to find another way, is irresponsible and absolutely unwarranted. It should not be tolerated, as my right to live is more important than your right to drive drunk.

Well personally, I would drive extra well if I had to drive while intoxicated (for whatever reason). If I was really drunk, I would drive really slow. OH WAIT, COPS PULL YA OVER FOR THAT, BETTER DRIVE AT AN UNSAFE RATE OF SPEED.

I think jury nullification at a DUI trial would probably be a sign of the apocalypse.

I'll post the Rockwell article and if you still don't see this issue from the liberty point of view then I can't help you.
 
Legalize Drunk Driving

by Llewellyn H. Rockwell, Jr.


[Note: This column was written before the news came out last night that George W. Bush was arrested on a DUI charge 24 years ago. He was stopped in Maine for driving too slowly and briefly veering onto the shoulder of the road]

Clinton has signed a bill passed by Congress that orders the states to adopt new, more onerous drunk-driving standards or face a loss of highway funds. That’s right: the old highway extortion trick. Sure enough, states are already working to pass new, tighter laws against Driving Under the Influence, responding as expected to the feds’ ransom note.

Now the feds declare that a blood-alcohol level of 0.08 percent and above is criminal and must be severely punished. The National Restaurant Association is exactly right that this is absurdly low. The overwhelming majority of accidents related to drunk driving involve repeat offenders with blood-alcohol levels twice that high. If a standard of 0.1 doesn’t deter them, then a lower one won’t either.

But there’s a more fundamental point. What precisely is being criminalized? Not bad driving. Not destruction of property. Not the taking of human life or reckless endangerment. The crime is having the wrong substance in your blood. Yet it is possible, in fact, to have this substance in your blood, even while driving, and not commit anything like what has been traditionally called a crime.

What have we done by permitting government to criminalize the content of our blood instead of actions themselves? We have given it power to make the application of the law arbitrary, capricious, and contingent on the judgment of cops and cop technicians. Indeed, without the government’s "Breathalyzer," there is no way to tell for sure if we are breaking the law.

Sure, we can do informal calculations in our head, based on our weight and the amount of alcohol we have had over some period of time. But at best these will be estimates. We have to wait for the government to administer a test to tell us whether or not we are criminals. That’s not the way law is supposed to work. Indeed, this is a form of tyranny.

Now, the immediate response goes this way: drunk driving has to be illegal because the probability of causing an accident rises dramatically when you drink. The answer is just as simple: government in a free society should not deal in probabilities. The law should deal in actions and actions alone, and only insofar as they damage person or property. Probabilities are something for insurance companies to assess on a competitive and voluntary basis.

This is why the campaign against "racial profiling" has intuitive plausibility to many people: surely a person shouldn’t be hounded solely because some demographic groups have higher crime rates than others. Government should be preventing and punishing crimes themselves, not probabilities and propensities. Neither, then, should we have driver profiling, which assumes that just because a person has quaffed a few he is automatically a danger.

In fact, driver profiling is worse than racial profiling, because the latter only implies that the police are more watchful, not that they criminalize race itself. Despite the propaganda, what’s being criminalized in the case of drunk driving is not the probability that a person driving will get into an accident but the fact of the blood-alcohol content itself. A drunk driver is humiliated and destroyed even when he hasn’t done any harm.

Of course, enforcement is a serious problem. A sizeable number of people leaving a bar or a restaurant would probably qualify as DUI. But there is no way for the police to know unless they are tipped off by a swerving car or reckless driving in general. But the question becomes: why not ticket the swerving or recklessness and leave the alcohol out of it? Why indeed.

To underscore the fact that it is some level of drinking that is being criminalized, government sets up these outrageous, civil-liberties-violating barricades that stop people to check their blood – even when they have done nothing at all. This is a gross attack on liberty that implies that the government has and should have total control over us, extending even to the testing of intimate biological facts. But somehow we put up with it because we have conceded the first assumption that government ought to punish us for the content of our blood and not just our actions.

There are many factors that cause a person to drive poorly. You may have sore muscles after a weight-lifting session and have slow reactions. You could be sleepy. You could be in a bad mood, or angry after a fight with your spouse. Should the government be allowed to administer anger tests, tiredness tests, or soreness tests? That is the very next step, and don’t be surprised when Congress starts to examine this question.

Already, there’s a move on to prohibit cell phone use while driving. Such an absurdity follows from the idea that government should make judgments about what we are allegedly likely to do.

What’s more, some people drive more safely after a few drinks, precisely because they know their reaction time has been slowed and they must pay more attention to safety. We all know drunks who have an amazing ability to drive perfectly after being liquored up. They should be liberated from the force of the law, and only punished if they actually do something wrong.

We need to put a stop to this whole trend now. Drunk driving should be legalized. And please don’t write me to say: "I am offended by your insensitivity because my mother was killed by a drunk driver." Any person responsible for killing someone else is guilty of manslaughter or murder and should be punished accordingly. But it is perverse to punish a murderer not because of his crime but because of some biological consideration, e.g. he has red hair.

Bank robbers may tend to wear masks, but the crime they commit has nothing to do with the mask. In the same way, drunk drivers cause accidents but so do sober drivers, and many drunk drivers cause no accidents at all. The law should focus on violations of person and property, not scientific oddities like blood content.

There’s a final point against Clinton’s drunk-driving bill. It is a violation of states rights. Not only is there is no warrant in the Constitution for the federal government to legislate blood-alcohol content – the 10th amendment should prevent it from doing so. The question of drunk driving should first be returned to the states, and then each state should liberate drunk drivers from the force of the law.

November 3, 2000
 
This statement should have ended the debate IMO.

For those of you arguing "the probability of creating an accident increases" I have this to say: more black teens commit crimes than white teens. The probability of committing a crime increases with a change in skin color. According to your logic we should incarcerate all teenagers who are black for being black in order to greatly reduce crime.

If roads were privatized this would be a nonissue. However as long as roads are public it is immoral to punish those who are engaging in activities that do not amount to aggression. There are many people who drink and drive all their lives and never cause an accident.


- Booyah! My thoughts exactly.
 
I say criminalize cellphone talking, fast food eating, book/map reading, and all oral intercourse while driving!!!!

Why???

BECAUSE I SAID SO!!!!!!



:p
 
My wife just got back from the gas station and said she overheard 2 cops discussing their personal quotas for tonight. One said he's shooting for 15 and the other said 20. So, drunk or not, be careful out there. They're out to make their pay tonight.
 
See this is what I mean. If you were living in France in 1940 you would gladly submit to Nazi rule, because opposing them would mean war :rolleyes:

WRONG again. :)

You have a legitimate right to defend your property.

You were saying? :rolleyes:

I actually took the "Would you have been a Nazi test?" . Obviously far from being scientific. Regardless... I'm part of the 5% on the entire people who have ever taken the test, who would have joined "La Resistance". :cool:

Once someone understands the world, then things like property rights and the non-aggression axiom become obvious, but not until then. Remember that morality is derived from reality, and not the reverse.

The Ethics of Liberty by Murray Rothbard
 
I'm passing on this. Rockwell has some retarded ideas (like legalizing drunk driving), and he seems to be the culprit behind the racist newsletters. I can't support racism, or the man who supposedly contributed to the biggest subversion of the RP campaign.
 
Can I ask those who support legal drunk driving a question?

WHO THE FUCK CARES?

We will never actually win an election if we demand such rigid ideological purity at the expense of results. Is being able to drink and drive as important as ending the Fed and ending the American Empire? Its not even close. We need to focus on what matters and try to actually win something for once instead of constantly having a circle-jerk of self congratulations about our supposed ideological purity.
 
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I'm passing on this. Rockwell has some retarded ideas (like legalizing drunk driving), and he seems to be the culprit behind the racist newsletters. I can't support racism, or the man who supposedly contributed to the biggest subversion of the RP campaign.

You just called Liberty a "retarded idea". You fail remarkably in your inability to use logic & reason. Instead, like a good little socialist - you think with your emotions.

Racism? LOL. Isn't that ummmmmmmmmmmmm... collectivism - the very opposite of individualism. :rolleyes: Calling Lew Rockwell a racist is like calling Stalin a free market anarchist. It is fcken delusional.

Can I ask those who support legal drunk driving a question?

WHO THE FUCK CARES?

We will never actually win an election if we demand such rigid ideological purity at the expense of results. Is being able to drink and drive as important as ending the Fed and ending the American Empire? Its not even close. We need to focus on what matters and try to actually win something for once instead of constantly having a circle-jerk of self congratulations about our supposed ideological purity.

When you get a criminal conviction for the rest of your life, when you have HARMED NO-ONE, NOR DESTROYED ANY PROPERTY, or as a matter of fact - done NOTHING WRONG, and you are fined, jailed etc - for NO LEGITIMATE REASON, WHAT, SO, EVER...

Then I give a fuck.

As far as your retarded strawman goes - answer me this. Who the fuck is campaigning on the right to drink drive? LMFAO. :rolleyes:

You still haven't answered my proposed question; WHO IS THE VICTIM OF DRINK DRIVING?!?

In summation: this.

:)
 
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