The Right to Drink and Drive?

Should Drinking and Driving Be Decriminalized?

  • Yes

    Votes: 43 50.0%
  • No

    Votes: 38 44.2%
  • Other/Unsure

    Votes: 5 5.8%

  • Total voters
    86
It's not pre-crime. It's threatening people with the inability to properly control a multiple thousand pound object by choice. Threatening another's life voluntarily is a crime. Sure people get on the road, and know there is a chance an "Accident" may happen, but driving a vehicle in a state that greatly increases the odds, is voluntarily increasing the odds you will kill, injure or damage anothers property. Regardless, if the Federal Government,State, or local government handled the driving laws, Drunk driving will always be illegal. So, this is a lot about nothing in reality land, unless your position is that no body of government should license anybody, and 3 year olds are cool to drive about town.

As far as your two links, they don't source any of their material. I'm trying to find the los angeles times article the second referenced without luck, thus far. But if I find it, and the method is sound, I might reconsider.

Anyway, pre-crime would be me predicting before you even drank a beer that you would then drive, or even seeing you drunk and predict you are going to drive. Not getting into a vehicle in a state proven to slow reaction times, and thus increase the odds you will hit a person or property.
 
It's not pre-crime. It's threatening people with the inability to properly control a multiple thousand pound object by choice. Threatening another's life voluntarily is a crime. Sure people get on the road, and know there is a chance an "Accident" may happen, but driving a vehicle in a state that greatly increases the odds, is voluntarily increasing the odds you will kill, injure or damage anothers property. Regardless, if the Federal Government,State, or local government handled the driving laws, Drunk driving will always be illegal. So, this is a lot about nothing in reality land, unless your position is that no body of government should license anybody, and 3 year olds are cool to drive about town.

As far as your two links, they don't source any of their material. I'm trying to find the los angeles times article the second referenced without luck, thus far. But if I find it, and the method is sound, I might reconsider.

Anyway, pre-crime would be me predicting before you even drank a beer that you would then drive, or even seeing you drunk and predict you are going to drive. Not getting into a vehicle in a state proven to slow reaction times, and thus increase the odds you will hit a person or property.
Licensing is another question. No there should be no licensing.
As far as the statistics go, There have been several threads on this subject. (every couple months) and they have been posted several times.
I really don't care to look them up again, but they are available and easily found with a little research.

As far a"threatening" anyone with an auto,,,, that is just fucking stupid and a really fucking stupid argument.

By far, more fatalities are caused by SOBER people. Are they threatening also?
 
Nevermind..... not worth it, I'm not getting into this with a person that can't even communicate like an adult.

And I have trouble repeating my self over and over and over again to dumb fucking statists that can't even bother to research the question, but continue to present false propaganda to argue their point.

Here, is one that took seconds to find.
http://alcoholfacts.org/CrashCourseOnMADD.html
 
It's not pre-crime. It's threatening people with the inability to properly control a multiple thousand pound object by choice. Threatening another's life voluntarily is a crime. Sure people get on the road, and know there is a chance an "Accident" may happen, but driving a vehicle in a state that greatly increases the odds, is voluntarily increasing the odds you will kill, injure or damage anothers property. Regardless, if the Federal Government,State, or local government handled the driving laws, Drunk driving will always be illegal. So, this is a lot about nothing in reality land, unless your position is that no body of government should license anybody, and 3 year olds are cool to drive about town.

As far as your two links, they don't source any of their material. I'm trying to find the los angeles times article the second referenced without luck, thus far. But if I find it, and the method is sound, I might reconsider.

Anyway, pre-crime would be me predicting before you even drank a beer that you would then drive, or even seeing you drunk and predict you are going to drive. Not getting into a vehicle in a state proven to slow reaction times, and thus increase the odds you will hit a person or property.

I am sure you are lobbying for laws to stop people from driving tired, when ill, or when elderly. Every day, millions of elderly drivers get behind the wheel in a state proven to slow reaction times, critical thinking ability, and sometimes alarmingly affect memory.

Given that not everyone's reaction time is slowed beyond functional ability by the "legal limit" in many states, and that proof of reduced reaction (swerving, braking short, driving stupidly) is against the law and would get someone pulled over anyhow, what is the justification for these laws again?

If someone over the legal limit is, as you assert, in such a terrible state that they can't drive worth a shit, then THAT is what should get them pulled over. It should also get them pulled over if they're fiddling with their gadgets, falling asleep, making out with their passenger, trying to calm their baby, reading a book, eating while driving, or anything else. The CAUSE is not the problem. If you are so sure that being legally drunk makes one a bad driver 100% of the time, then this should be easy: all those "drunks" will be caught anyhow.

It is pre-crime, by the way, and it's funny you said "getting into a vehicle" because sometimes that's all it takes. If you are drunk, and get into your car and sit behind the wheel, maybe even for an hour, maybe just with the radio on and the engine running, you can still expect a tap on your window from the police. The crime in question is damage to person or property. You do NOT know, just by testing someone's blood, whether or not they are going to cause that damage. You only know the statistical probability is changed by alcohol in volumes high enough to affect reaction time. It is changed in those scenarios I have described, too, and myriad more. Why isn't there such a crazy effort to stop those folks?

The last accident I saw in person was:

bilde


Curiously enough, the woman was just driving fast, passing people, driving like SHIT and then her car spun and went across the median. The pickup, going the right way and going a normal speed, almost cut the car in half. There was no "almost" about the way the black car's driver was found.

Now, that day there were all kinds of cops along the interstate, stopping people in teams for not moving over when the lights were flashing. This caused the lanes to stop and start and go at uneven speeds. This caused a lot of us who were trying to get to work to be late. I guess this lady decided she wasn't going to be any later than she already was.

Maybe if the cops had been more worried about who was driving poorly, swerving, cutting people off, and generally disobeying just about every traffic law out there... instead of their specific enforcement of one stupid law... she would have been stopped before she caused that idiocy and got herself killed.

No drinking was involved, but do you need to know the cause, or the effect?
 
And I have trouble repeating my self over and over and over again to dumb fucking statists that can't even bother to research the question, but continue to present false propaganda to argue their point.

Here, is one that took seconds to find.
http://alcoholfacts.org/CrashCourseOnMADD.html

Damn. I shouldn't let this get to me, but I have been a victim of this bullshit.
It has cost me several thousands of dollars, in years past.

I am 53 yrs old and have been driving since I was 12. I have never wrecked a car. (crashed a motorcycle when sober though)
I have had 2 DUIs. The first one I was not driving, I was going to sleep in my car. Legally parked and with a cold motor (never started it)
The second one was on a motorcycle, I had drank a couple beers, but was no where near drunk.
I have worked as a Bodyman, repairing cars for a living, and have had a lot of repeat customers. Sober ones. People that repeatedly wrecked cars.

I have also known hundreds of people that drive "under the influence" for many years without incident.

These laws are total bullshit. and the facts prove that.
Fuck the Propaganda.

Oh yeah, I haven't had a drink since 2007, when I met Ron Paul on Mackinac Island.
I had several beers that night. (it was celebratory) and drove a bunch of "Fair Tax" folks back to their hotel. The weather turned to shit And there were violent thunderstorms, so I gave them a ride.
I then drove the 60+ miles home through a nasty thunderstorm. Without incident. With a buzz on.

This stupid shit pisses me off.
:mad:
 
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I dont have any problem with legalizing Russian Roulette, as long as its only the players life that is jeopardized. When it puts everyone else at risk, that is a problem. Put one bullet in a six shooter, spin it, then pull the trigger at someone else without their concent, I draw that line. I dont give a shit what someone does to themselves, or what age kids start drinking, but drinking and driving is too great a risk, and people are already irresponsible enough.

Lowering the limit, that is just a money grab, taxation by citation, but for someone that is unable to control their vehicle, or themselves well enough to not put me in extreme risk, I'll vote to stay with the idea, not necessarily the law, but the idea that driving drunk infringes on other peoples right to life.
 
They set the legal limit at such a low level it is laughable. But surely there is a point at which people should not be on the road.
 
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