The Revolution needs you to vote for Obama

[qh4dotcom]

Phree does have a point, and the point is this- The worst thing that can happen for the growing Ron Paul/Liberty cause is a McCain victory.

So...

If you're lucky enough to be in a state clearly tipping into an Obama state in early Nov. then you get to be a completely free 3rd-party agent, no worries.

Same if it's obviously falling into McCain's side of the ledger at that time with a strong margin. Your vote won't change that, vote your heart in a 3rd party of your choice.

But if it's very close you've got a very tough call. One set of principles says still vote your 3rd party best choice, another set says apply your vote in the most effective manner possible in the interests of the Liberty movement. Both are arguably principled positions and it's your call.

But please don't fail to notice that absolutely no Ron Paul/Liberty principle can possibly justify a McCain vote regardless of the scenario. Allowing the GOP another Presidential administration after the carnage of the last 8 years is neocon vindication and abject failure in the most important principle of all- Throw the bums out!

I thought you guys were smarter than the sheeple voters who think that their vote is going to decide the outcome of the election and cast their votes with this silly belief in mind. Looks like you have the same IQ as they have if you're considering voting for Obama because "that will be good for the Liberty movement".

No matter how close an election is, your vote will never be a tiebreaker vote that decides the outcome of the election...and if that extremely, extremely unlikely scenario happened, both parties are likely to file legal challenges to swing the election in their favor like the Democrats did in Broward county back in 2000.

Face it, your vote is too insignificant to anyone and to swing elections...stop behaving like sheeple who make a big deal out of their insignificant vote...you guys are supposed to be smarter than that...the 3rd parties need your vote more than the Republicans and Democrats.

 

[amyk]

After getting involved with the Ron Paul campaign over a year ago I learned that voting for the lesser of two evils is still evil and there is NO WAY that I will ever vote for McBama. I understand what the point is but I will not compromise my beliefs again

 

[phree]

I thought you guys were smarter than the sheeple voters who think that their vote is going to decide the outcome of the election and cast their votes with this silly belief in mind. Looks like you have the same IQ as they have if you're considering voting for Obama because "that will be good for the Liberty movement".

No matter how close an election is, your vote will never be a tiebreaker vote that decides the outcome of the election...and if that extremely, extremely unlikely scenario happened, both parties are likely to file legal challenges to swing the election in their favor like the Democrats did in Broward county back in 2000.

Face it, your vote is too insignificant to anyone and to swing elections...stop behaving like sheeple who make a big deal out of their insignificant vote...you guys are supposed to be smarter than that...the 3rd parties need your vote more than the Republicans and Democrats.

This post is defeatist garbage. There are over a million Ron Paul voters out there and suggesting that we can't influence an election is pure disinformation. I don't care if you disagree with my concept, but your comments are strange and false.

After getting involved with the Ron Paul campaign over a year ago I learned that voting for the lesser of two evils is still evil and there is NO WAY that I will ever vote for McBama. I understand what the point is but I will not compromise my beliefs again

You say that you "understand what the point is" and then you go on to mischaracterize it as "voting for the lesser of two evils".

This concept has NOTHING to do with LOTE, it has everything to do with keeping the GOP weak so that we can more effectively influence it, and letting Obama have the office so that his legend (myth) can die in plain view of the world.

Many of Obama's faithful are new voters very much like RP's new young support, and when they see Obama's lies play out many of them will realize the true agent of change is the Liberty movement.

It amazes me that so many are ready to say and believe that Obama supporters are stupid beyond redemption, especially the large percentage of newly involved people. This is a huge resource and if McCain wins they will either remain loyal to Obama (most likely occurrence) or they will rally behind the next Democrat bullshit artist.

Whoever gets elected faces more challenges than a President has faced in many decades. They are likely to become very unpopular and fail, and I think if it's Obama who fails that it will help our cause significantly.

 

[qh4dotcom]

This post is defeatist garbage. There are over a million Ron Paul voters out there and suggesting that we can't influence an election is pure disinformation. I don't care if you disagree with my concept, but your comments are strange and false.

I am talking about your particular insignificant vote, not the 1.2 million people who voted for RP

If you are going to contact all of the 1.2 million RP voters and persuade them to vote for Obama, then you have a valid argument about influencing the election...otherwise stop behaving like the sheeple who make a big deal out of their insignificant vote.

 

[phree]

I am talking about your particular insignificant vote, not the 1.2 million people who voted for RP

If you are going to contact all of the 1.2 million RP voters and persuade them to vote for Obama, then you have a valid argument about influencing the election...otherwise stop behaving like the sheeple who make a big deal out of their insignificant vote.

I'm clearly trying to influence RP supporters to consider this tactic.

To suggest that I'm behaving like "the sheeple" is rude and patently false, which is obvious.

Maybe you should stop acting like a Neocon lobbyist.

I agree with Phree with one caveat. If you live in a swing state, it would indeed be most helpful to vote Obama. Victory won't bring change to the Republicans. They need to lose big. However, if you live in a state that is considered a lock for one of the mainstream parties, then voting Libertarian would be the wisest choice. If they get enough votes, then they become eligible for both funding and ballot access next time around.

Phree does have a point, and the point is this- The worst thing that can happen for the growing Ron Paul/Liberty cause is a McCain victory.

So...

If you're lucky enough to be in a state clearly tipping into an Obama state in early Nov. then you get to be a completely free 3rd-party agent, no worries.

Same if it's obviously falling into McCain's side of the ledger at that time with a strong margin. Your vote won't change that, vote your heart in a 3rd party of your choice.

But if it's very close you've got a very tough call. One set of principles says still vote your 3rd party best choice, another set says apply your vote in the most effective manner possible in the interests of the Liberty movement. Both are arguably principled positions and it's your call.

But please don't fail to notice that absolutely no Ron Paul/Liberty principle can possibly justify a McCain vote regardless of the scenario. Allowing the GOP another Presidential administration after the carnage of the last 8 years is neocon vindication and abject failure in the most important principle of all- Throw the bums out!

I agree with your logic

Ok I see where your logic is coming from. There will be great bitterness toward the republican party leadership if mcCain fails and maybe a chance for us to regain control of the party

mccain must lose and if it means i have to vote for obama then i will, though i will perfer to vote for chuck or barr but if i have to pull the lever for obama i sure will.
mccain must lose or this revolution is over for the gop

The "Worse is Better" argument.

There is a nugget of truth to this.

If McCain wins we can't run a candidate in 2012

 

[qh4dotcom]

I'm clearly trying to influence RP supporters to consider this tactic.

To suggest that I'm behaving like "the sheeple" is rude and patently false, which is obvious.

Maybe you should stop acting like a Neocon lobbyist.

You are behaving like the sheeple because you are not contacting enough RP supporters to influence the outcome of the election. All that you're doing is helping Obama increase his election day totals by a tiny amount like the rest of Obama's sheeple.

Sorry but if all the RPF members took your advice and voted for Obama, it's still not enough to influence the outcome of the election....and obviously not all the RPF members are that dumb to waste their vote on Obama.

 

[phree]

You are behaving like the sheeple because you are not contacting enough RP supporters to influence the outcome of the election. All that you're doing is helping Obama increase his election day totals by a tiny amount like the rest of Obama's sheeple.

Sorry but if all the RPF members took your advice and voted for Obama, it's still not enough to influence the outcome of the election....and obviously not all the RPF members are that dumb to waste their vote on Obama.

You act like a neocon because you throw out thinly veiled insults that defy obvious logic.

You have no idea what I'm doing to promote this idea and you either don't understand what sheeple are or you are feigning ignorance for the effect (see neocon comparison).

No doubt you fear my idea because you don't understand it, so you're doing what you can to smear me. You're not doing a very good job btw.

As you can see by the following quotes there are several dedicated RP supporters who understand the concept I've presented. How many of the 4000+ plus people who have viewed this thread might agree with those members? There is no way to know, but I do what I can.

I agree with Phree with one caveat. If you live in a swing state, it would indeed be most helpful to vote Obama. Victory won't bring change to the Republicans. They need to lose big. However, if you live in a state that is considered a lock for one of the mainstream parties, then voting Libertarian would be the wisest choice. If they get enough votes, then they become eligible for both funding and ballot access next time around.

Phree does have a point, and the point is this- The worst thing that can happen for the growing Ron Paul/Liberty cause is a McCain victory.

So...

If you're lucky enough to be in a state clearly tipping into an Obama state in early Nov. then you get to be a completely free 3rd-party agent, no worries.

Same if it's obviously falling into McCain's side of the ledger at that time with a strong margin. Your vote won't change that, vote your heart in a 3rd party of your choice.

But if it's very close you've got a very tough call. One set of principles says still vote your 3rd party best choice, another set says apply your vote in the most effective manner possible in the interests of the Liberty movement. Both are arguably principled positions and it's your call.

But please don't fail to notice that absolutely no Ron Paul/Liberty principle can possibly justify a McCain vote regardless of the scenario. Allowing the GOP another Presidential administration after the carnage of the last 8 years is neocon vindication and abject failure in the most important principle of all- Throw the bums out!

I agree with your logic

Ok I see where your logic is coming from. There will be great bitterness toward the republican party leadership if mcCain fails and maybe a chance for us to regain control of the party

mccain must lose and if it means i have to vote for obama then i will, though i will perfer to vote for chuck or barr but if i have to pull the lever for obama i sure will.
mccain must lose or this revolution is over for the gop

The "Worse is Better" argument.

There is a nugget of truth to this.

If McCain wins we can't run a candidate in 2012

 

[qh4dotcom]

Why hasn't anyone banned this Obama troll yet?

Freedom of speech is allowed in this forum...I made the mistake of feeding the Obama troll....don't make that mistake....just say you're not voting for Obama, period....instead of getting into an argument you can't win.

 

[forsmant]

I am not voting for Obama.

 

[danberkeley]

It means that Obama is a secret communist I guess...

Kade finally discerns the correct meaning of a post.

 

[SeanEdwards]

I'm not voting for Obama. I'm voting against McCain.

 

[phree]

Freedom of speech is allowed in this forum...I made the mistake of feeding the Obama troll....don't make that mistake....just say you're not voting for Obama, period....instead of getting into an argument you can't win.

You can't win the argument because you don't bring logic.

 

[phree]

I'm not voting for Obama. I'm voting against McCain.

I voting against McCain and I'm voting to give Obama the rope that he will hang himself with.

 

[kombayn]

I don't care either way who wins, Obama will only be better because the people around the world love this guy. So we'll be on better-terms internationally, let the Dems fuck-up royally and show their corruptness. By that time the Ron Paul Revolution will have a stranglehold on the GOP and we'll be able to nominate a Pro-Republican ticket such as, Gary Johnson/B.J. Lawson 2012. That would be a dream-come true, they would hit Obama/Biden campaign hard in the mouth over the issues and they wouldn't be able to escape the questions because they would be heading the GOP ticket.

 

[phree]

I don't care either way who wins, Obama will only be better because the people around the world love this guy. So we'll be on better-terms internationally, let the Dems fuck-up royally and show their corruptness. By that time the Ron Paul Revolution will have a stranglehold on the GOP and we'll be able to nominate a Pro-Republican ticket such as, Gary Johnson/B.J. Lawson 2012. That would be a dream-come true, they would hit Obama/Biden campaign hard in the mouth over the issues and they wouldn't be able to escape the questions because they would be heading the GOP ticket.

I agree with one exception. I care very much who wins because if it's McCain then the neocons win again.

 

[TastyWheat]

Phree, I don't phault you phor planning ahead. I do however fault you for voting against your conscience and relying on Obama to shake people to their senses.

If Obama does a terrible job you're assuming people will logically turn to liberty and freedom. While I wish that were true I don't see how that's a natural conclusion. Poor people have been voting Democrat all their lives and they're still poor. Obama is touting failed policies and people are praising them. For most people the economy is the main issue at all times though they don't know it. Bush's approval rating has dropped lockstep with the rise of oil. If Obama gets lucky as Clinton did, that alone will solidify his savior-like image. In our eyes I'm sure Obama will be a nightmare, but the average voter will probably see a different Obama.

Furthermore, if you think he's going to be a bad president you shouldn't help put him into office. If Obama gets a filibuster-proof Congress it may turn out worse than the New Deal. Think of the years and years of bad policies and legislation we need to undo. Do you really want more monstrosities like Social Security and Medicare that we eventually want to get rid of? And what if Obama does a terrible job but the people still cry out for more government? Are you going to give it to them by voting for the next worse candidate that comes along? Are you going to vote your country into a state of pure socialism all the while chanting a different mantra?

I will agree that things will get worse before they get better, but I won't be like them, causing problems to become the solution.

 

[qh4dotcom]

Phree, I don't phault you phor planning ahead. I do however fault you for voting against your conscience and relying on Obama to shake people to their senses.

If Obama does a terrible job you're assuming people will logically turn to liberty and freedom. While I wish that were true I don't see how that's a natural conclusion. Poor people have been voting Democrat all their lives and they're still poor. Obama is touting failed policies and people are praising them. For most people the economy is the main issue at all times though they don't know it. Bush's approval rating has dropped lockstep with the rise of oil. If Obama gets lucky as Clinton did, that alone will solidify his savior-like image. In our eyes I'm sure Obama will be a nightmare, but the average voter will probably see a different Obama.

Furthermore, if you think he's going to be a bad president you shouldn't help put him into office. If Obama gets a filibuster-proof Congress it may turn out worse than the New Deal. Think of the years and years of bad policies and legislation we need to undo. Do you really want more monstrosities like Social Security and Medicare that we eventually want to get rid of? And what if Obama does a terrible job but the people still cry out for more government? Are you going to give it to them by voting for the next worse candidate that comes along? Are you going to vote your country into a state of pure socialism all the while chanting a different mantra?

I will agree that things will get worse before they get better, but I won't be like them, causing problems to become the solution.

TastyWheat: Phree is going to enthusiastically vote for Obama like the rest of the Obama sheeple. Nothing you can do will change this.

As long as he/she is hiding behind a computer, he/she feels comfortable and will continue to troll the forums in support of Obama. Do you think he/she would have the guts to approach a stranger with a Ron Paul T-shirt in real life and say face-to-face the same pro-Obama stuff he/she has been preaching in this forum?

 

[Defining Obscene]

Its the "either-or" that keeps the intellectual people stuck in a rut. Vote 3rd party, or don't vote - is the best "either-or" scenario out there, but never gets pushed by talking heads.



By the way, I hate this thread just because of the title.

 

[jmdrake]

I despise both Obama and McCain, but the Revolution will suffer most if McCain wins.

With the addition of Palin to the GOP ticket I fear that McCain may win. Unless you all can refute my logic I will hold my nose and my gut and vote for Obama.

Before I explain my position I wish to differentiate myself from those who suggest voting Obama out of spite for the GOP. Grow up.

The easiest way to understand my position is to imagine what will happen if McCain wins. If Obama loses this election his devoted followers will stay united behind him and they will bemoan this defeat as a lost opportunity for the "change" he promised (lied about). The country will be more divided than ever and the Democrats will continually claim that the answer is/was Obama.

If Obama loses he will become a political martyr. We don't need that.

Obama must be unmasked as the liar he is and the only way to do that is to give him the Presidency. The Revolution needs Obama's supporters to see first hand what he will do with their support. When they see that Obama has sold them out, they will finally realize that real change is necessary and possible, and they will look for a genuine vehicle for change, The Revolution.

LONG LIVE RON PAUL!

LONG LIVE THE REVOLUTION!

Obama '08!

Regardless of who wins in 08 they'll be exposed as a liar. If Obama loses McCain will continue screwing things up as Bush has. Some Obama supporters may continue to rally around him, but others will forget him over time. (Run into any Kerry supporters lately?) If Obama wins, Obama supporters will likely stick beside him for at least 8 years. (Reference William Jefferson Clinton). Honestly this is the worst argument I've heard for "strategic voting Obama" yet.

Besides, the same thing can be more principally accomplished by voting Barr, Baldwin or somebody else. Best case scenario, Obama's denied outright majority vote and McCain is denied the Whitehouse. People talk about the "Ron Paul factor" in the election for years to come.

Anyway, president 08 matters little. Local elections 2010 are more important. Be prepared to run yourself or to talk some other RP supporter you know into running. Quit putting all your eggs into what happens with the presidency.

Regards,

John M. Drake

 

[jmdrake]

I voting against McCain and I'm voting to give Obama the rope that he will hang himself with.

Hang himself with, or hang YOU with?