The Revolution needs you to vote for Obama

[phree]

..if there is anything that ever has become so imbedded & validated my ongoing logical thinking even moreso now ... "the lesser of 2 evils" is something i could never sell my soul to!! & now i comprehend the value of a 3rd party vote more than ever before...& for all those hesitant....better than not voting!!!!!

after being so active in the RPR ...i...as many ...will never be the same! with that said...3rd party is imperartive this time around! ...& it's NOT throwing away my/your/anyones vote !!!

can you imagine if ALL the people who thought this/worried about it said: WTF --i've had it !! ...& actually voted 3rd party????? HUGE HUGE HUGE numbers!!!!!!!!!!!!!! & potential results would be...????

i am so fed up w/the logic of saying it's a wasted vote!!!!!! reminds me of all the people who aligned w/RP ...yet said "if i vote for him --it's a wasted vote" yea...if you don't vote for him he'll never win!! & neither will a third party if you don't vote for them!!!

screw MSM!! there are milions of votes out there ...that don't know what to do!!! so will they stay home??? Hmmmmmmmm...i wonder???

once again a winner of the left/right...by default...NOT CHOICE!! unless the votes go to a 3rd party!!!

a 3rd party vote is making a statement....& one i can live with & hope for the best....w/o selling my soul to the powers that be! & hell ...ya never know what could happen!!

bottom line? if either of these twits make it...at least i KNOW i NEVER compromised myself! i sure as hell didn't put all this time & energy into the revolution to vote SSDD!!

the constant roar of "voting for the lesser of 2 evils" just makes me violently ill !!! it's a cop out--bottom line!

who gives a damn if obomacrap gains office to prove to followers he was not what he claimed??? at what price for us???? same w/mccluk!!! you are attempting to be logical w/sheeple??? -- NEVER happen--it'll blow over eventually at everyones expense...& once again the sheeple will forget!!!!!!

what if the million + (that we know of) ALL voted 3rd party??? have you not even considered the amount of loyal dems or repubs that are repulsed by the *choices* they have? they will stay home..OR vote minus a choice for prez. what would happen if they too voted 3rd party????

is this the year the 3rd party REALLY makes a statement????

it will if YOU VOTE that way!!!!!!!!

btw: don't know if you are aware-- yet michael moore is releasing a new vid for free 9/23 http://slackeruprising.com ...to get people off their butts to vote (obamacrap!) the dems are worried...repubs had to pull palin in attempt to garner more votes...2 parties running freikin' scared!!!

...this means the 3rd party needs us more than ever!!!!!! and NOT vote the lesser of 2 evils!! the logic does NOT compute.

I read half of your post and clearly you don't understand the concept I'm presenting. It has nothing at all to do with voting for the lesser of two evils.

MY CONCEPT IS BETTER DESCRIBED AS VOTING FOR THE GREATER OF TWO EVILS, although IMO there is actually little difference between McBama and O'Cain.

If you want to comment on this idea I'm ready to hear it, but first you need to understand what the topic is.

 

[phree]

I agree with the premise that an Obama Presidency would be most conducive to the future of our movement (it would show many on the left that a D by somebody's name is not an absolute assurance of an honest and non-intrusive policy approach), but I'm STILL not voting for him. I have made a promise to myself never to vote for the "lesser of two evils" again, and it is a promise I have no intention of breaking.

How can you agree with the premise that this will help the movement and still refuse to even consider it?

Please please please stop confusing this concept with voting for the lesser of two evils.

NOW HEAR THIS! OBAMA IS NOT THE LESSER EVIL. IF ANYTHING HE IS THE GREATER OF TWO EVILS.

 

[a2planet2]

If McCain wins we can't run a candidate in 2012

 

[phree]

Nice tags on this thread.

Hot Topics, pronto.

To the mods:

I appreciate that you have not moved this thread to Hot Topics.

Apparently you can see where my heart is and you have chosen to let a controversial idea be vetted.

Thank you.

 

[phree]

If McCain wins we can't run a candidate in 2012

Wow. Thanks for adding this point.

Has this been discussed before? It seems important.

 

[anaconda]

If McCain wins we can't run a candidate in 2012
Reply With Quote

I think we can. It's just not usually a big contest. I believe Edward Kennedy made a strong run to unseat Jimmy Carter in 1980. And I think Reagan took a swing at Ford in 1976. Maybe somebody who knows better can chime in, here.

 

[anaconda]

Points taken. My point is that the only other options are also not likely to have much positive effect. How much effect do you all really think voting 3rd party will have?

1 vote added to Obama is approximately 1 in 55 million. 1 vote added to your choice of third party will be approximately 1 in maybe 2 to 6 million or so (in this election). So the percentage growth in your third party as a consequence of your 1 vote is far more dramatic than a single vote cast for Obama or McCain, hypothetically.

 

[anaconda]

I completely disagree about Obama's faithful becoming disillusioned with him or the Dems because of a loss. They will blame racism and GOP dirty tricks, but they will not believe they had made the wrong choice. They will focus their hate on the GOP further polarizing the country and distracting from the real avenue towards change, The Revolution.

So we can agree to disagree on this until we have some meaningful outcome. I think if Obama loses, his uninformed legions will be hugely deflated. The Democrats will be shell shocked that they lost the Presidency despite their 2006 mandate, and this will fill the editorial columns for months and years. They will second guess having screwed all of the voters that gave them the House and Senate in 2006 (well,senate sort of). People like Conyers and Pelosi will go down in flames because of this. The DNC will re-package and re-market a new moderate candidate and the Miller Lite toting Obama legions will be led like sheep to rally for their new deal. But the Revolution should be able to acquire significant numbers from the former Obama supporters that will "wake up" in the aftermath of his defeat.

On the other hand, if Obama wins, all this is moot. Whether an Obama presidency strongly unifies the Dems or causes even more bickering and division will be interesting to see.

 

[JK/SEA]

You all are looking at this short term. Voting for the lesser of 2 evils is a pointless argument, although i will vote for who ever is 3rd party on my ballot, but face it, we will be getting one or the other, and on the bright side, one of these 'evil' candidates will most likely bring back the draft. I plan on setting up a CFL sign up table at a University near me when this happens.

Get ready. The REAL revolution is just around the corner.

 

[Paul.Bearer.of.Injustice]

There is no "logic" in your original post at all. It is wild speculation, prediction, and the OPPOSITE of logic.
Obama gets elected and it's certain he'll have egg on his face??
He could also be a hero by withdrawing troops from Iraq, bettering relations with Iran and Russia.. who knows?

Logic is only a suitable method for decision-making when you know the results of the logic tree.

In the absence of certainty is where conviction/belief/faith whatever you want to call becomes important.

 

[Natalie]

Obama supporters are so freaking annoying. I almost want to vote for McCain just because Obama supporters make me so angry (don't worry, I'd carve my eyes out before I did that). I know McCain is a raging lunatic and war mongerer, but Obama supporters are stupid to believe his "change" slogan. He's basically a communist, and he's not going to change anything. If you ask them why they like Obama, they can't even give you a good answer.

On another note, has anybody heard that three six mafia song, Lolli Lolli? They say something about Obama and how "it's time for a change." I hate that song. Seriously.

 

[KenInMontiMN]

Phree does have a point, and the point is this- The worst thing that can happen for the growing Ron Paul/Liberty cause is a McCain victory.

So...

If you're lucky enough to be in a state clearly tipping into an Obama state in early Nov. then you get to be a completely free 3rd-party agent, no worries.

Same if it's obviously falling into McCain's side of the ledger at that time with a strong margin. Your vote won't change that, vote your heart in a 3rd party of your choice.

But if it's very close you've got a very tough call. One set of principles says still vote your 3rd party best choice, another set says apply your vote in the most effective manner possible in the interests of the Liberty movement. Both are arguably principled positions and it's your call.

But please don't fail to notice that absolutely no Ron Paul/Liberty principle can possibly justify a McCain vote regardless of the scenario. Allowing the GOP another Presidential administration after the carnage of the last 8 years is neocon vindication and abject failure in the most important principle of all- Throw the bums out!

 

[SeanEdwards]

Before I explain my position I wish to differentiate myself from those who suggest voting Obama out of spite for the GOP. Grow up.

Why is voting to spite the GOP immature? It seems as good a reason as any to me. I'm not going to be represented by either of the heir-apparents, so why not vote to satisfy my desire to punish the GOP? The only thing I stand to gain from this election is the satisfaction of seeing the GOP humiliated for their rejection of Paul. I don't think voting to satisfy my self-interest is immature. I would call it logical and the natural reaction to the GOP's tactics.

If your nominee metaphorically spits in my face, I'm gonna vote for your opponent. Duh.

 

[hypnagogue]

I agree with Phree with one caveat. If you live in a swing state, it would indeed be most helpful to vote Obama. Victory won't bring change to the Republicans. They need to lose big. However, if you live in a state that is considered a lock for one of the mainstream parties, then voting Libertarian would be the wisest choice. If they get enough votes, then they become eligible for both funding and ballot access next time around.

 

[DAFTEK]

You people are sick, enjoy the koolaid..... This thread makes me sick.....

 

[phree]

There is no "logic" in your original post at all. It is wild speculation, prediction, and the OPPOSITE of logic.
Obama gets elected and it's certain he'll have egg on his face??
He could also be a hero by withdrawing troops from Iraq, bettering relations with Iran and Russia.. who knows?

Logic is only a suitable method for decision-making when you know the results of the logic tree.

In the absence of certainty is where conviction/belief/faith whatever you want to call becomes important.

Well if Obama did the things you suggest he might then he wouldn't be such a bad choice. Do you honestly believe what you suggest has any chance of happening?

And you call my theory wild speculation.

 

[phree]

You all are looking at this short term. Voting for the lesser of 2 evils is a pointless argument, although i will vote for who ever is 3rd party on my ballot, but face it, we will be getting one or the other, and on the bright side, one of these 'evil' candidates will most likely bring back the draft. I plan on setting up a CFL sign up table at a University near me when this happens.

Get ready. The REAL revolution is just around the corner.

This concept has nothing to do with voting for the lesser of two evils.

I don't believe Obama is the lesser evil.

This concept is best called:

VOTING FOR THE GREATER OF TWO EVILS!

If you don't know what I mean then read the OP.

 

[phree]

Phree does have a point, and the point is this- The worst thing that can happen for the growing Ron Paul/Liberty cause is a McCain victory.

So...

If you're lucky enough to be in a state clearly tipping into an Obama state in early Nov. then you get to be a completely free 3rd-party agent, no worries.

Same if it's obviously falling into McCain's side of the ledger at that time with a strong margin. Your vote won't change that, vote your heart in a 3rd party of your choice.

But if it's very close you've got a very tough call. One set of principles says still vote your 3rd party best choice, another set says apply your vote in the most effective manner possible in the interests of the Liberty movement. Both are arguably principled positions and it's your call.

But please don't fail to notice that absolutely no Ron Paul/Liberty principle can possibly justify a McCain vote regardless of the scenario. Allowing the GOP another Presidential administration after the carnage of the last 8 years is neocon vindication and abject failure in the most important principle of all- Throw the bums out!

Thank you KenInMontiMN.

I mainly quoted you because I'm very tired from the constant attacks I've experienced since starting this thread. It's nice to know that I'm not the only one who sees some logic in this.

 

[phree]

I agree with Phree with one caveat. If you live in a swing state, it would indeed be most helpful to vote Obama. Victory won't bring change to the Republicans. They need to lose big. However, if you live in a state that is considered a lock for one of the mainstream parties, then voting Libertarian would be the wisest choice. If they get enough votes, then they become eligible for both funding and ballot access next time around.

This is the method I'll use to decide who to vote for.

 

[Theocrat]

Oh, Barf

I despise both Obama and McCain, but the Revolution will suffer most if McCain wins.

With the addition of Palin to the GOP ticket I fear that McCain may win. Unless you all can refute my logic I will hold my nose and my gut and vote for Obama.

Before I explain my position I wish to differentiate myself from those who suggest voting Obama out of spite for the GOP. Grow up.

The easiest way to understand my position is to imagine what will happen if McCain wins. If Obama loses this election his devoted followers will stay united behind him and they will bemoan this defeat as a lost opportunity for the "change" he promised (lied about). The country will be more divided than ever and the Democrats will continually claim that the answer is/was Obama.

If Obama loses he will become a political martyr. We don't need that.

Obama must be unmasked as the liar he is and the only way to do that is to give him the Presidency. The Revolution needs Obama's supporters to see first hand what he will do with their support. When they see that Obama has sold them out, they will finally realize that real change is necessary and possible, and they will look for a genuine vehicle for change, The Revolution.

LONG LIVE RON PAUL!

LONG LIVE THE REVOLUTION!

Obama '08!

What this Revolution (if you can even call it a "revolution" now) needs is people who are willing to stand on the solid ground of principle by pledging, supporting, and voting for the right candidate, not a "fright" candidate just because you're afraid of the other guy winning.

Many of you are sinking in the sands of immoral expediency by voting the lesser of two evils, which is still evil, and what will that accomplish in the end? Do you really think the country will learn its lesson from the malpractice and deficiency of a poor Presidency? After years and years of "politics as usual" in Washington, D.C., with scandal after scandal from both Republicans and Democrats in office, with billions upon billions of dollars of debt piled so high that our children's children will be able to see it for generations to come, with days, months, and years of constant Constitutional ignorance and impotence from our leaders in our nation's governmental halls, and with the increases in the warfare and welfare State from both sides of the aisle, do you really believe a vote for less evil will break the dam of our Republic's deformity? I don't think so.

Our electorate only care about "change" and "straight talk." If a revolution is to come, it must be preceded by education of the masses, locally, Statewide, nationwide, and even worldwide. If a revolution is to come, it must begin within each person examining themselves through self-government in moral integrity, proper knowledge, self-sacrifice, and correct principles. If a revolution is to come, it must be done by serving each other in love. Most importantly, if a revolution is to come, it must be done with a right attitude and relationship towards our Creator.

When these things come to pass, then a revolution will have people talking straight about change, and real change will occur, indeed, as it was in the days of our Founding Fathers. But we must never bow down at the altar of convenience by voting against someone instead of voting for someone. Truth is our ally, not compromise, and it's the only way we can expect to win in the end if we want our country to have a future.