The Reluctant Case for Trump

[georgiaboy]

I give up.

I spent 4 pages attempting to get people to understand that I'm talking about Old School, using your enemy to your advantage/losing the battle to win the war.....but everyone just wants to get in a pissing match about the quality and purity of the 2016 field.

You plain missed my point, over and over.

Everyone has an opinion, but no one wants to read the thread to find out the questions presented.

Fine, whatever. Stay stuck in the wonderful world of 2016. I'll find a group somewhere willing to plan 2020.

No. You're stuck in the same evil logic and assumptions that the vast rest of the country uses every election cycle, and we wonder why we're in the fix we're in.

I'll tell you what I get told all the time, but it actually applies to you. You're wasting your vote. And so is anyone else who is truly concerned about reducing the debt and the size and scope of government.

You get led around by the nose based on polls and mass media attention and join in with those around the coffee urn who look at the field and limit their choice based on "who's got a chance to win", "who's left in the field" as if it were an elimination tournament bracket. The policy differences you argue about are tantamount to rearranging deck chairs. But you're choosing between shades of the same variety of ever growing government. You're told and you believe that any others in the field "don't have a chance", "are quixotic", "are dangerous", I could go on and on and on.

In order to get the change we are all here supporting, we must unplug from this line of thinking and instead really use our vote to find someone on the ballot with which we actually agree and pull the lever for them. It's as simple as that. Call it a protest vote, but it has impact. It gets noticed, and I believe it has and will sway election results.

If more and more concerned Americans behaved as I now do, we'd actually start to see a shift occur.

If instead we act as you suggest, and just jump into the "lesser of evils" pile, the status quo continues forever.

This continued assumed process of "narrow the field and choose from those remaining" is a lie.

Wake up, seriously. You are being played.

 

[CaptUSA]

...but there is a certain amount of respect you have to give a guy for being able to truthfully tell it like it is.

I know to immediately dismiss the rest of any post that refers to Trump in this manner. He isn't truthful. He isn't telling anything like "what it is". And he is certainly not deserving of any respect.

Trump is using words that some people want to hear and they are imagining whatever they want to believe about him. People did that with Obama, too.

At this point, I am not looking for a President to start "fixing" things. We already lost our chance for the guy who might have done that. No, now I'm just hoping for the one who can do the least amount of damage until we can try again.

 

[65fastback2+2]

Bought. He truly isn't bought. Does that allow him to say some truly ridiculous things? Yea. I'm hoping that he is just appealing and pandering to the NASCAR voters...but there is a certain amount of respect you have to give a guy for being able to truthfully tell it like it is.

I get so tired of people claiming someone that has a butt ton of loans out to all the big banks isnt bought.

You think he would operate in a manner in which the banks would start denying him loans? lol. Thats 100% bought.

 

[Fivezeroes]

I get so tired of people claiming someone that has a butt ton of loans out to all the big banks isnt bought.

You think he would operate in a manner in which the banks would start denying him loans? lol. Thats 100% bought.

I have a butt ton of loans through my bank, car loan, 2 mortgages, student loans, does that mean I'm bought? No that means I'm stupid as shit for taking out so many loans, but it most definitely does not mean I'm bought.

 

[AuH20]

Add another 'endorsement' from Jennifer Rubin.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/right-turn/wp/2016/02/15/not-prepared-to-be-commander-in-chief/

Trump’s indifference to the facts carries over into present conditions. At the debate he insisted: “We have allies, so-called allies. We’re spending billions and billions of dollars supporting people — we have no idea who they are in Syria. Do we want to stay that route, or do we want to go and make something with Russia?” The only ones who think Russia is on our side work for the Obama administration; our allies, members of Congress and outside experts understand that making a deal with Russia means Bashar al-Assad stays in power, Iran chalks up a victory and the bloody civil war drags on.

 

[Brett85]

Add another 'endorsement' from Jennifer Rubin.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/right-turn/wp/2016/02/15/not-prepared-to-be-commander-in-chief/

She's been equally critical of Cruz on foreign policy.

 

[ProBlue33]

See nobody REALLY knows what Trump would do until he got into power, the man has a huge ego, he hates to fail, and to go back on everything he said during the election doesn't fit with his personality. I think what would drive him is legacy, his ego is bigger than any president ever, he would want to leave a positive legacy for America and not a legacy of a loser that never succeeded. This isn't about money for him, he has that, it is about power and a legacy of greatness, in his mind.

He is an egomaniac for sure, but I think when he goes to make deals the other side going to know he won't get played because he won't lose face in front of the public.
See Obama for some reason doesn't seem to care at all.

 

[Fivezeroes]

See nobody REALLY knows what Trump would do until he got into power, the man has a huge ego, he hates to fail, and to go back on everything he said during the election doesn't fit with his personality. I think what would drive him is legacy, his ego is bigger than any president ever, he would want to leave a positive legacy for America and not a legacy of a loser that never succeeded. This isn't about money for him, he has that, it is about power and a legacy of greatness, in his mind.

He is an egomaniac for sure, but I think when he goes to make deals the other side going to know he won't get played because he won't lose face in front of the public.
See Obama for some reason doesn't seem to care at all.

Honestly I believe he would do as he says he would. Trump is the type of man that does not like failure and would not want his namesake tarnished by lying to get elected and flip-flopping. This is what most people don't get when they call him a liar.

 

[Chester Copperpot]

Let me start out with, Donald Trump is a narcissistic, power hungry, and vulgar man. He isn't rooted in Constitutionalist ideology. He isn't an avid reader of the Federalist Papers, or of the Two Treatises. He is not of the Liberty Movement. I will not be voting for him, and I do not encourage you to either.

But allow me to go into a few reasons why Trump cam sometimes be right (for all the wrong reasons).

Foreign Policy. He is an Old School Pat Buchanan/Andrew Bacevich on Foreign Policy. He is able to make the non-interventionist case like Ron and Rand never could. This is the biggest reason to take a second look at him.

Supreme Court. He offered two great Constitutionalists to replace Scalia. The only other person I trust with the Court appointment would be Ted Cruz.

Immigration. Let's be real, he is a dumbass and will try to build a wall. *facepalm*. But, consider this. He is actually quite serious about getting our border security under control. Expensive? Yes. Unrealistic? Yes. But at the end of the day, this is one of the few necessary functions of government. Maybe after he figures out how the real world works, he'll find a more realistic solution.

Free Enterprise. Trump hates deals like NAFTA, TPP, AND other Free Trade Deals. Good. Now, ideally he would drop all tariffs and allow the marker to work. Instead he wants to jack up tariffs on China...putting a huge tax on consumers buying Chinese Goods. But, while this kind of mercantilism and protectionism is worse for the economy that true Free Trade...it's better than the neo-fascist corporatism we have today. Lower regulation of the domestic economy and playing dirty in the Foreign Market is something we did all through the 1800s. Not ideal, but a step in the right direction against corporatism.

Government Spending. He has spoken about Auditing the Fed, the Pentagon, and about eliminating entire Departments. That sounds pretty damn good to me. However, he is no penny pincher. He will spend excess money on other pet projects. We have to rely on Congress to balence him out on this.

PC Culture. Oh my gosh, can you imagine the daily entertainment we'd get from Trump trolling democrats. I get it, not presidential at all...but someone willing to drop the feign politeness and get a little dirty is healthy.

Flip Flopping. Yes, he used to be a Democrat. Yes, he is not to be trusted. But, remember that he changes that he made are in an anti-governmentary direction. Don't expect that to change...and if it does, Paul 2020 is on the horizon.

Bought. He truly isn't bought. Does that allow him to say some truly ridiculous things? Yea. I'm hoping that he is just appealing and pandering to the NASCAR voters...but there is a certain amount of respect you have to give a guy for being able to truthfully tell it like it is.

GOP. The Party absolutely hates him, and watching them squirm would be fun.

Lastly, if he loses...Liberty Candidates will have a great talking point in 2020. If he wins, then at least the criminal, the socialist, the Cuban Obama, the dynastic heir, the blue dog democrat, the liberty traitor, and the lazy doctor lose.

I'm still voting Paul in the Primary. But if the blowhard takes the nomination, I'll probably hold my nose, pop some popcorn, and strap in for an entertaining ride.

Thoughts?

do you have a link for that?

 

[CaptUSA]

Honestly I believe he would do as he says he would.

Which part? Are you talking about when he says he'll make things "good" or that it will be "unbelievable"? I'm prone to believe him on the latter.

 

[Fivezeroes]

Which part? Are you talking about when he says he'll make things "good" or that it will be "unbelievable"? I'm prone to believe him on the latter.

No the part where he says he will build the wall and deport the 12 million illegals here. I honestly don't believe he would tarnish his name by not following through with something like that. All I know is if we elect another career pol, no matter who it is, this country is a goner. The career pols had their chance, it's time for an outsider.

 

[Mad Raven]

I get so tired of people claiming someone that has a butt ton of loans out to all the big banks isnt bought.

You think he would operate in a manner in which the banks would start denying him loans? lol. Thats 100% bought.

That's what rich people who have a clue how to manage money do. They all have debt. It isn't necessarily bad debt. They take out the most debt at the lowest interest rate for the longest time possible. It's virtually mandatory as a principle of financial management, and the more money you have, the easier and more obvious it is. At the very least you can invest it in something low risk that gives you a higher rate of return than you're paying on the low interest debt. And having money to work with today is of more value than the money the banks get back from you later.

Bad debt is when the interest rate is too high and it severely eats away at your wealth.

If someone is bought by banks, having big loans is not evidence for that unless the interest is strangely low.

 

[AuH20]

That's what rich people who have a clue how to manage money do. They all have debt. It isn't necessarily bad debt. They take out the most debt at the lowest interest rate for the longest time possible. It's virtually mandatory as a principle of financial management, and the more money you have, the easier and more obvious it is. At the very least you can invest it in something low risk that gives you a higher rate of return than you're paying on the low interest debt. And having money to work with today is of more value than the money the banks get back from you later.

Bad debt is when the interest rate is too high and it severely eats away at your wealth.

If someone is bought by banks, having big loans is not evidence for that unless the interest is strangely low.

 

[RonPaulGeorge&Ringo]

I'm still voting Paul in the Primary. But if the blowhard takes the nomination, I'll probably hold my nose, pop some popcorn, and strap in for an entertaining ride.

You're doing it wrong. Vote for Trump in the primary to blow up the neocon GOP. Then vote for someone else (LP?) in the fall.

 

[CaptUSA]

No the part where he says he will build the wall and deport the 12 million illegals here. I honestly don't believe he would tarnish his name by not following through with something like that. All I know is if we elect another career pol, no matter who it is, this country is a goner. The career pols had their chance, it's time for an outsider.

It will be huge. But beautiful. And there will be a door.


Dude, you are pretty gullible.

 

[Fivezeroes]

It will be huge. But beautiful. And there will be a door.


Dude, you are pretty gullible.

Maybe so my friend, but my first choice dropped out before NH.

 

[CPUd]

 

[CPUd]

Machete don't tweet

 

[NoOneButPaul]

I'm pretty certain i'm going to vote for him and to all those who think that's insane I would simply ask... who else is better?

Ted Cruz is bought and paid for by Goldman Sachs. It's painfully obvious he's a stooge and was simply sent in to destroy Rand and co-op his message with a warhawk foreign policy.
Marco Rubio is the worst kind of neocon phony. He couldn't stink more of being a puppet.
Jeb Bush is literally the worst thing the country could do to itself.

From where i'm sitting Bernie Sanders is the only guy I would consider voting for over Trump for the simple fact neither candidate is owned by the Too Big to Fail banks. My only rational for voting for Sanders would be that it would no doubt speed up the complete collapse of the monetary system and would bring on THEE crash sooner rather than later - and it would happen with me getting free shit beforehand (yes, I know how bad that sounds coming from someone who has studied Austrian Econ, been around for awhile, and considers themselves a Ron Paul Republican but anyone here who is really paying attention to the dollar and the markets knows how bad things are going to get in the short term and how it will cause even worse results in the long term so grabbing whatever we can back before Bernie's socialist nightmare collapses isn't the worst idea for people like us because we'll go into it full well knowing where it ends up - the masses, however, would not - giving us the advantage when it finally did happen.)

Anyway, Trump is self made, self-financed, and would likely purge Washington of a lot of the garbage that's been built up there simply because of his authoritarian personality. Furthermore, I think Trump is actually the most likely candidate, besides Sanders, to avoid World War with Russia. I actually think Trump would be best at handling Putin over anyone else in the field on both sides.

As much as people here hate Trump, or want to hate on the Trump supporters here, I simply refer back to my original question: who is better? And, if at the end of the day, your answer is to not to vote than you're a coward in my frank opinion because you're simply letting much worse candidates like Jeb, Marco, or Hillary keep themselves in power by sitting over there on the sidelines. As for the lesser of two evils bullshit - I don't want to hear it. We aren't talking about Cruz vs Rubio vs Bush - with Trump in play were talking about a GIGANTIC Wildcard Presidency and the fact everyone is going to sit here and ignore that, even if he's not a libertarian or liberty minded, is pretty interesting and makes one wonder what the hell would get any of you ultra-contrarian libertines off your asses to vote for anyone? Do you really not see there's a huge difference with Trump in play?

Bottom line to me is this isn't your normal lesser of two evils situation like with Romney vs Obama or McCain vs Obama or Kerry vs Bush or Bush vs Gore. I also think that if he's elected he would do everything in his power to be a great President simply because his ego wouldn't be able to take anything less.
I'm not going to sit here and say the results would be totally great for liberty minded people but I am sitting here saying the results of his Presidency would likely be his and his alone and there isn't another candidate in this race you can say that about. In fact, excluding Ron Paul, you haven't been able to say that about any candidate since Ross Perot. Also, even in the case of Ron Paul he wasn't filthy rich and he did actually have major donors to his campaign - Trump is different in both regards. A libertine? No. But the same lesser candidate as usual? I seriously doubt it.

Does no one else find it odd that Bill Kristol hates him so much? That the media has obviously tried to tell half truth after half truth to stop him? Does no one see the similarities between how much the NeoCons and Media hate Trump? This guy is obviously an immense wildcard and I personally believe his life is on the line by playing in these people's worlds and he doesn't even know it because he has now idea how truly fucked up it all is.

I will gladly vote for Trump for all these reasons and truth be told I wasn't going to bother saying anything about it, and probably won't from this point forward, but someone had to make the thread so there it is. I'm supporting Trump and my suggestion is you do the same. It won't be perfect but it's definitely a wildcard.

 

[nikcers]

I'm pretty certain i'm going to vote for him and to all those who think that's insane I would simply ask... who else is better

I had high expectations after reading your username, but I had to stop reading after the first sentence. You're talking about Rand Paul Right?