The reason that one should make a conscious effort not to shop at walmart

Lol, another long-ass Wal-Mart thread. Maybe theres morally self-righteous reasons to not shop at Wal-mart, but this is the best the OP could come up with? Because they "let people get away with stealing" (which wasn't even cited, and someone who actually works for wal-mart contradicted 5 posts later). Then the OP realizes its not a sufficient enough reason on its own..so lets throw in the age old "they dont pay their workers enough" argument. Well shit, what is "enough"? Apparently people are willing to work there for "not enough". Oh but i forgot, they are forced to because Wal-Mart the leviathan consumes entire local economies.

There are valid arguments (that i dont agree with, but can understand nonetheless) the dislike walmart but... do we have to create these kind of threads every few weeks?
 
If Walmart has a policy of forgiving shoplifters, that's essentially the same as a policy of setting the price of everything in the store at $0.00. Clearly, laissez-faire capitalism would serve to remedy that problem quite rapidly: Every customer should simply accept the policy-established price and agree to pay $0 for Walmart's products. It's not stealing if they actually have a policy to allow it! Then, when Walmart loses all its money by supplying goods at 100% lower than market value and 100% loss to them, they will be immediately forced out of business.

This is of course absurd. Any company with a policy of allowing shoplifting cannot in fact become the victim of shoplifting, because the would-be shoplifter is instead merely taking advantage of stated company policy. I sincerely doubt that Walmart has a policy by which they would be forced out of business by natural market operation within minutes. And most of all, I can't see how one's decision to shop there or not would make any difference one way or the other. If we all boycotted Walmart, then what? They'd be forced to lower their prices? Well, you can't go any lower than $0.00! If they already have a policy of allowing shoplifting, their prices are as low as they get! What, we boycott Walmart until they resort to a policy of paying shoplifters just to make sure someone is carrying their merch out the door??? hahaha!!
 
Yes. Walmart obviously does a lot of things right. They certainly don't over pay their executives while they seem to save a lot of money by being housed in cheap office space while based in a crappy little town in Arkansas.

Evil Wal-Mart! They should move to a non-crappy town with expensive office space. :D

Still, Walmart has become a monster because it no longer speaks directly to the people and its customers but communicates with them through lawyers.

WTF does that even mean?

This is the way mega corporate entities poison society into bankruptcy.

WTF... does that mean?

In comparison, small companies grow faster, are more inventive, pay their employees more, while they pay more in taxes. They tend to be more intimate with their employees and their customers. More likely to attend the same Church.

So?
 
Walmart doesn't manage. It dismanages.

:confused:

I will agree they put on good appearances. Still, when an issue arises, Walmart management hushes up, side steps and calls their lawyers.
There is a better way. It happened when AT&T got broken up. What happened? Well, a multi-billion dollar industry transformed into a huge multi-trillion dollar technology.
We need to put an end to the Federal lobbying that corporate behemoths perpetuate onto the American people. There ain't nothing left to buy from that empty box.
Instead, give local inventiveness a chance and she will transform herself from a naughty, polluting whore into a good, helpful wife.

FAIL!

Per individual, more money was being spent by southern plantation owners taking care of their slaves than northern industrialists were spending paying each of their workers.

Yes. Slavery was becoming very inefficient.


From DANNO

http://www.iht.com/articles/2007/06/15/news/china.php


Quote:
Child slave labor revelations sweeping China
By Howard W. French
Published: June 15, 2007

SHANGHAI: Su Jinduo and Su Jinpeng, brother and sister, were traveling home by bus from a vacation visit to Qingdao during the Chinese New Year when they disappeared.

Cheated out of their money when they sought to buy a ticket for the final leg of their journey home, they were taken in by a woman who offered them warm shelter and a meal on a cold winter night, and then later a chance to earn enough money to pay their fare by helping her sell fruit.

The next thing they knew they were being loaded onto a minibus with several other children and taken to a factory in the next province, where they were pressed into service making bricks. Several days later, the boy, who is 16, escaped along with another boy and managed to reach home, enabling his father to rescue his 18-year-old sister a few days later.

This story is one of hundreds like it that have swept China in recent days in an unfolding labor abuse scandal that involves the kidnapping in central China of hundreds of children, and perhaps more, some reportedly as young as 8, who have been forced to work under brutal conditions - scantily clothed, unpaid and often fed little more than water and steamed buns - in the brick kilns of Shanxi Province. There have also been reports of adults being forced to work under similar circumstances.


Also see http://www.time.com/time/world/artic...635144,00.html


http://archive.newsmax.com/archives/...0/200712.shtml


Quote:
How China Hides Its Slave Labor From the Free World

Wes Vernon
Saturday, Jan. 11, 2003


WASHINGTON – The biggest cover-up in the long parade of Clinton scandals was probably the sell-out to the communist Chinese. Harry Wu had a front-row seat on that tragedy, from the inside of Chinese labor camps.

In his book “Troublemaker,” published by NewsMax.com, Wu compares those living hells (or laogai) to Hitler’s concentration camps.

The trade with China, paid for by Americans who are finding it harder and harder to find merchandise they want that does not bear the “Made in China” label, was already in force when the Clintons came to Washington. After they saw the political benefits to be had for selling out, the relationship took off like a rocket.

Thanks in large measure to the Clinton White House's cover-up, we do not know to this day the full story of Chinese espionage that enabled them to gain access to U.S. nuclear weapons know-how through the theft of highly sensitive classified data on sophisticated warheads or the missile-related technology that was compromised.

But Harry Wu saw the Clinton/Beijing relationship from a deeply human perspective: the blue uniforms and shaved heads in Chinese prison camps.

For years, he had been one of the estimated 50 million blue uniformed “troublemakers” who had worked in the camps under totally inhumane conditions. Some of them literally worked themselves to death.

The forced labor had turned out for the American market such items as rubber-soled shoes, boots, kitchenware, toys, tools, men’s and women’s clothing, and sporting goods.

What really bothered Wu was that in 1992, candidate Bill Clinton had criticized the first President Bush for being too lenient in regard to China’s human-rights behavior. Yet in his first year, he renewed China’s trade benefits. True, he attached some strings to the deal, including insistence that China abide by a 1992 agreement banning the export of prison labor products to the United States.

But much of China’s forced labor is carefully hidden from the Western World. A 1992 “white paper” issued by the Chinese regime in defense of its labor camps raised more questions than it answered, as far as Wu was concerned.

For example, he asks, “[W]hy do they put phony names on their prison camp factories, as if trying to conceal the profitable use of forced labor?”

At one camp of lost souls hunched over their machines, stripped of their identities (in some cases for decades), the security officer was asked if he could guarantee the quality of his products.

“No problem,” he answered. He then cited an example of a German manufacturer who bought steel pipes from the camps, and labeled them as being made in Germany. So the products were good enough for the Germans. “How about that!” he marveled.

'Getting Wise'

A manager at Shanghai’s Laodong Machinery Plant, where hand tools were made, boasted that because the U.S. Congress had recently made “quite a fuss” about the prison camps, he and his bosses had devised a way to get around the problem.

“We always go through the import-export company,” he said, meaning they set up companies to handle the shipment of goods. That way, as Wu explains it, “nobody quite knows where the goods came from. These guys were getting wise to the ways of the world.”

This wording in a law on the books in the U.S. for decades specifically forbids the importation of products made by slave labor. Wu cites a little-known section of the 1930 Smoot-Hawley Law. That controversial measure is widely known for having imposed a high tariff in an attempt to protect American jobs during the Great Depression. Critics say it made the Depression worse.

The tariff section of the law was changed by the Reciprocal Trade Act of the 1930s. But the anti-slave-labor section is still “the law of the land.” It specifically bans importing anything made by forced labor. Its final paragraph reads, “Forced labor, as herein used, shall mean all work or service which is exacted from any person under the menace of any penalty for its nonperformance, and for which the worker does not offer himself voluntarily.”

The law is routinely violated or circumvented, in part because of devices used by the Chinese (such as those cited above) to hide the true origins of the products, but also because of political pressure on politicians here at home not to probe to deeply into the matter. As Wu bluntly puts it, “Many American business people do not know - or do not want to know — the implications of purchasing forced-labor products.”

When the Clintons ascended to power in the White House, ignoring those “implications” became de facto policy in Washington. We will discuss that next.

Am I missing something here? I do not see Wal-Mart mentioned in either excerpt.
 
Slave prisoners don't get market wages. They are prisoners. Did you read the articles I posted? It has nothing to do with the media.

Giving her the benefit of the doubt, maybe she didn't realize you were talking about actual slavery on a literal level. Plus, it's difficult to ascertain whether Wal-Mart is actually doing business with people who enslave their workers. It's easy to assume they do, but China is a big country with literally over a billion people, so it's tough to tell. It certainly doesn't help that these people are covering up their tracks and purposely making it difficult to determine, though...I'd really like to read an article by Ron Paul and/or the Austrians on the implications of free trade with countries with a large proportion of involuntary or enslaved workers. This may be a different situation from free trade with third world countries in general, and on a moral level, I think it's important to really understand whether trade with such countries ultimately benefits their people or benefits their elite and perpetuates the people's slavery. If we were to have a unilateral free trade policy, knowing this would at least give us the information we need to make moral purchasing decisions on the individual level.
 
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Lol, another long-ass Wal-Mart thread. Maybe theres morally self-righteous reasons to not shop at Wal-mart...the leviathan...consumes entire local economies.[/QUOTES]

Aye, and feeds others.


There are valid arguments...but...

...they are ultimately pissing at the moon trying to make it more yellow. They are the stuff of academic debates that should be had with impassioned leisure during one's college years. That's one of the reasons that college is so important. I know, I know, no taxpayer money on a well-educated citizenry.

If AIG et al are too big to fail, Wal*Mart -- which is notably NOT on the brink of collapse -- is too big for a beleaguered and impoverished population to take down.

There ARE strategic boycotts that COULD be waged without prevailing upon people who are in NEED of low prices to further suck it up for the home team.

I've been advocating these for over two years to no avail.

There is an expression on the Recovery Circuit about when an alcoholic or addict is finally beaten into a state of reasonableness, about them becoming as open-minded as only the dying can be. Anyone actually ready to roll up their sleeves and get 'er done?

Divide and conquer. Divide and conquer. Separate one from the herd.
 
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I don't shop at Wal-Mart because their stuff is shit made for the poor to middle class. I prefer fine things. If I buy shoes, I normally spend around $200 and they last me for 3-5 years of every day use. I buy high end electronics, because I have a discerning ear and expect that my audio will not sound like the inside of a trash can. If I buy chocolate, I buy Belgian or German. Sure, I may buy trash bags or some household item for which there is not a superior substitute at Wal-Mart, but by and large I avoid it because it's products don't offer the lifestyle I have become accustomed to. I don't care if Wal-Mart ignores theft of their own property or gives to some unsavory causes, if they offered good products, I would shop there regardless. It is their money and property they are wasting after all. As far as the employees and those who shop there are concerned, they need to get a life. Not to be rude or anything, but that is pretty sad that someone can live on $9.25 in hour. It's also sad that people want to shop their and fill their lives with that trash. Who am I to judge though, apparently there is a market for both Wal-Mart jobs and it's products. So...enjoy your shit living people! You deserve it. It's the best shit on earth crappy wages can buy! I'm sorry if I sound like a page out of Atlas Shrugged, but seriously, low employee pay is the last reason I should stop shopping at Wal-Mart.

On a side note, Target actually has some decent stuff from time to time.

I cannot believe that no one has responded to this horseshit of a post.

First of all I cannot believe that someone would think they were better than another person because of the amount of money they bring in- you are a classist fool.

Secondly all that money obviously doesn't buy spell check...I may not have as much income as you, but I can discern the difference between "their" and "there".

Thirdly, even some of us "low class" people know that you don't buy EVERYTHING at WalMart...apparently, you are under the assumption that all people that make less money than you ONLY shop at WalMart.

You know, as much money as you claim to have, you have no tact and obviously not a care in the world over you you may hurt with your assumptions and judgments. I can guarantee you that with the amount of money I make, you'd think I was some poor fool, who had nothing on earth to live for...but you would be wrong. While you struggle through your day, stressed out, rushing, rushing, rushing to make another dollar, I am sitting back in my home, with no regard for the time, doing as I wish, with a happy family that can do whatever they want- and because we know how to budget and are mature enough to carry out such budgeting, we can still have whatever we want without doing without our other needs and wants.

Some of us take pride in not be some idiot that is going to bring himself to the grave working, and buying... being another person who MUST rely the economy and government, and those above him to keep his home and have steady income to fund that "lifestyle they have become accustomed to". While you worry about slaving away for someone who gives not two shits about you, and whether or not you can keep your fine chocolates and Starbucks, those of us "under you", and sitting back in amusement.

If you'd get off your high horse long enough, to would realize that people like YOU are the laughingstock of America. I can go into a store with you, and no one could tell a difference in class. I also wear nice clothing, drive a decent vehicle that I OWN, buy good healthy food..actually all organic and natural, which some assume to be only affordable to the high class. I have good grammar, well behaved children will be with me, and a husband who opens doors for women and is respectful to those around him. We are put together, and act as such. When we go home, we walk into a home that we OWN, and have never paid a note for, on land that we OWN, with furniture that has never stressed us...it is all OWNED.

Living within your means, and not being so childish that you need tons of money to be able to survive does not make someone any lower than you.
 
Giving her the benefit of the doubt, maybe she didn't realize you were talking about actual slavery on a literal level.


It's hard to keep up, but either way I don't give a rat's ass. The road to capitalism is always paved with slave and child labor. Eventually the slaves will unionize, and the parents will make enough money to allow them the option to send their kids to school instead.

And then, after the issue is settled, the government will outlaw both those things.

Plus, it's difficult to ascertain whether Wal-Mart is actually doing business with people who enslave their workers. It's easy to assume they do, but China is a big country with literally over a billion people, so it's tough to tell. It certainly doesn't help that these people are covering up their tracks and purposely making it difficult to determine, though...I'd really like to read an article by Ron Paul and/or the Austrians on the implications of free trade with countries with a large proportion of involuntary or enslaved workers. This may be a different situation from free trade with third world countries in general, and on a moral level, I think it's important to really understand whether trade with such countries ultimately benefits their people or benefits their elite and perpetuates the people's slavery. If we were to have a unilateral free trade policy, knowing this would at least give us the information we need to make moral purchasing decisions on the individual level.

We can't endorse free trade, then decide only to allow free trade with countries that meet some arbitrary minimum social standard. It isn't free trade any longer.

Plus you can't decide that it isn't good for third world children to work in factories, when it might be just provide a long term catalyst out of poverty. American children paid their dues, and we are a stronger country because of it.
 
I don't shop at Wal-Mart because their stuff is shit made for the poor to middle class. I prefer fine things. If I buy shoes, I normally spend around $200 and they last me for 3-5 years of every day use.

I assume you're kidding about this, but just in case you aren't:

If I buy a $20 pair of shoes from Walmart, and they only last one year (not likely- they'll probably last longer than that, but just for the sake of argument), I buy 5 pairs in 5 years, for a cost of $100. You paid $200 PLUS "opportunity cost" (the interest you could have made on that money). Ergo, you're "fine" shoes end up costing you more than double the cost of the cheapies.


If I buy chocolate, I buy Belgian or German.

What, can't afford Swiss?

In any event, they get their beans from the same place everyone else does. BTW, there is plenty of bad chocolate made in all of those countries. The chocolate market in Europe- that includes Belgium, Switzerland, and Germany is dominated by companies owned by that famous "european" chocolatier KRAFT FOOD

Who am I to judge though, apparently there is a market for both Wal-Mart jobs and it's products.

Ya think? I guess when you become the largest company in the world, its a pretty safe bet that there is a market for your company, lol.

BTW, its not just the "poor" and middle class that shop at Walmart (or Target or Kmart)- plenty of millionaires do as well.

Most people who have money don't like to blow it just because they have it- most wealthy people tend to be pretty frugal (though those who ostentatiously display their wealth get all the "press"). If I can get a product at Target for $x, and the same product is $(x+30%) at a more "high end" store, the only thing I accomplish by going to the high end store is "burning" my money.

Overpaying for something isn't a sign of success, its a sign of stupidity- conspicuous consumption is probably more common among "wanna bes" than people with real money.
 
I don't shop at Wal-Mart because their stuff is shit made for the poor to middle class. I prefer fine things. If I buy shoes, I normally spend around $200 and they last me for 3-5 years of every day use.

That's nice, but I would get tired of wearing the same damned pair of shoes every day for 3+ years.

I buy high end electronics, because I have a discerning ear and expect that my audio will not sound like the inside of a trash can.

Since, IMHO, CD's and then MP3's ruined audio forever, that's a moot point for me.

If I buy chocolate, I buy Belgian or German. Sure, I may buy trash bags or some household item for which there is not a superior substitute at Wal-Mart, but by and large I avoid it because it's products don't offer the lifestyle I have become accustomed to. I don't care if Wal-Mart ignores theft of their own property or gives to some unsavory causes, if they offered good products, I would shop there regardless. It is their money and property they are wasting after all. As far as the employees and those who shop there are concerned, they need to get a life. Not to be rude or anything, but that is pretty sad that someone can live on $9.25 in hour. It's also sad that people want to shop their and fill their lives with that trash. Who am I to judge though, apparently there is a market for both Wal-Mart jobs and it's products. So...enjoy your shit living people! You deserve it. It's the best shit on earth crappy wages can buy! I'm sorry if I sound like a page out of Atlas Shrugged, but seriously, low employee pay is the last reason I should stop shopping at Wal-Mart.

On a side note, Target actually has some decent stuff from time to time.

It isn't sad that somebody can live on $9.25 an hour. It is commendable. What is sad are people like you. You sound like a snob, and a judgemental one at that. I secretly hope you choke on your German chocolate. And Target absolutely sucks. I have never understood the affinity that the "high-enders" have for Target. I have never purchased anything there that I was happy with. They aren't cheap, but they have that perception.

The world doesn't need people like you, that's for sure.

I'd much rather buy cheap things and put my excess cash into investments, but it is people like you who keep our economy going, I guess. Thanks for the bubble, asshole.
 
BTW, its not just the "poor" and middle class that shop at Walmart (or Target or Kmart)- plenty of millionaires do as well.


Hee! My husband, who is in the grocery business, saw a co-worker get fired when the boss ran into said colleague at the mall and saw that their groceries all came from WalMart.
 
Thirdly, even some of us "low class" people know that you don't buy EVERYTHING at WalMart...apparently, you are under the assumption that all people that make less money than you ONLY shop at WalMart.
.

Yes, that's a valid point. I never bothered to shop for work clothes at WalMart, and I wouldn't buy my husband's suits there!

But underwear? Why pay more for the exact same brands?

Personally, I rarely shopped at WalMart because I tend to buy a lot of things second hand. *AND* I hate big stores. I really just want to run in and run out. WalMart was so big that I ended up impulse shopping and blowing any savings I would have made.

But now WalMart has that ship-to-store thingy, and it's very cool. I can shop online, and then just pick up the stuff at WalMart. And they have that system in Beta for their grocery items. I have no doubt they'll figure out a way to work coupons into the system, then I'll be in heaven!
 
I cannot believe that no one has responded to this horseshit of a post.

We respect everyone's right to not have to respond to "horseshit" posts.

First of all I cannot believe that someone would think they were better than another person because of the amount of money they bring in- you are a classist fool.

We respect everyone's right to "think they were better than another person because of the amount of money they bring in".

Secondly all that money obviously doesn't buy spell check...I may not have as much income as you, but I can discern the difference between "their" and "there
".

We respect everyone's right to express some degree of illiteratecy.

:p
 
If Walmart has a policy of forgiving shoplifters, that's essentially the same as a policy of setting the price of everything in the store at $0.00. Clearly, laissez-faire capitalism would serve to remedy that problem quite rapidly: Every customer should simply accept the policy-established price and agree to pay $0 for Walmart's products. It's not stealing if they actually have a policy to allow it! Then, when Walmart loses all its money by supplying goods at 100% lower than market value and 100% loss to them, they will be immediately forced out of business.

This is of course absurd. Any company with a policy of allowing shoplifting cannot in fact become the victim of shoplifting, because the would-be shoplifter is instead merely taking advantage of stated company policy. I sincerely doubt that Walmart has a policy by which they would be forced out of business by natural market operation within minutes. And most of all, I can't see how one's decision to shop there or not would make any difference one way or the other. If we all boycotted Walmart, then what? They'd be forced to lower their prices? Well, you can't go any lower than $0.00! If they already have a policy of allowing shoplifting, their prices are as low as they get! What, we boycott Walmart until they resort to a policy of paying shoplifters just to make sure someone is carrying their merch out the door??? hahaha!!


One shouldn't boycott Walmart. One shouldn't shop there. A lot of us have turned to shopping at dollar stores instead. I've actually found better quality products at $.99 cent stores. Those $1.00 and $.99 cent stores really compete at providing the customer the highest quality product at the lowest price.
 
A lot of us have turned to shopping at dollar stores instead. I've actually found better quality products at $.99 cent stores. Those $1.00 and $.99 cent stores really compete at providing the customer the highest quality product at the lowest price.

That's impossible! Wal-Mart undercuts EVERYONE! You are being delusional. :D
 
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