The question of Leftists

[Stallheim]

I wonder if there is a general trend by region. I live in Pennsylvania, it is much easier to find common cause and easily identify common enemies with my non republican friends and family than with the average republican. It seems that most libertarians have already shaken off their last republican trappings and are full blown champions of liberty during the Bush administration, but the democrats are still democrats and many are quite lost and reasonable to talk to. I find may who are still republicans are so very stubborn, and desperate that this is the last chance to save the country and we just have to hold our nose and vote for the party pick because another term of Obama will destroy this great nation. But it sounds like this is not the case in other parts of the country maybe. Just a quick note, I spend a lot of time in Scandinavia and it is very similar among young people there too, as a libertarian it is really easy to talk about all sorts of freedom related topics, and the strategy of what to break the ice with makes a big difference. On a few occasions I have given a little sample of silver coins towards the close of a conversion effort, years later this seems to have tipped the scale to the market liberty side: nothing like an actual bit of skin in the game! Perhaps I just get frustrated with tenaciously bull headed self-righteousness. For me it is easier to tread carefully around liberal inconsistency and share common cause about injustice. I would love to find out more about regional differences with common labels like conservative, liberal, democrat, libertarian etc.

 

[Highstreet]

Does anyone else find, in mixed political company, that the discussion turns into you (the ron paul supporter) and the leftist arguing against the neo-con? I think that most of Dr. Paul's platform is actually most easily marketed to Leftists and Democrats, who fundamentally oppose things like state surveillance, morality laws, and warfare. In mixed dynamics, it is always me and the leftists against the regular ol GOP people. This contradicts, however, most organised campaigning, which focuses on the flag-waving tea-party sort of crowd's language and prejudice. I find on the street, however, that the congressman's ideas do not play to such a crowd, and resonate more with the Jon Stewart, generally-anti-abuse-of-power people.

Agreed. I get a lot of traction with my liberal friends as well.

I find that I am simply destroying Media lies and distortion with my conservative friends/family.

 

[Mr. Perfidy]

precisely; as the cali and mass. people have said, the "liberals" so many of you are talking about are the extremist, ideological ones- in those cases I would direct your attention to http://www.feastofhateandfear.com/archives/unabomber.html this link, Ted Kacizynski on the "the psychology of modern leftism." Say what you will of the man; he is right on target there in that part.

I am not talking about these people though- I am talking about regular registered Democrats whose identification with the Democratic Party is simply a statement of solidarity with the working poor and with minority groups. When people say, "I am a Republican," it often just means, "I like to pretend that I am in the ruling class," and when they say, "I am a Democrat," it often sounds suspiciously like, "I like the little guy." I am NOT TALKING about Democratic Party policy, or voting records, or philosophy, because, MOST PEOPLE DO NOT KNOW SHIT. They just identify with a group that promises them the right emotional associations and ego affirmations. In this respect, most democrats, the regular voter types, not the activists and public union people, ARE WITH US IN SPIRIT.

THEY HATE WAR.

THEY WANT TO LEGALIZE DRUGS.

THEY HATE RENDITION AND WIRETAPPING AND THE POLICE STATE

THEY HATE CORPORATE MEDDLING IN GOVERNMENT REGULATION

Why is this so disquieting to so many of you?

 

[TheGrinch]

nm

 

[Adam West]

I'm 53, and am at a good age to relate my experiences. When I was young, I was looking for the Peace Corps and was a "tried and true" Democrat. Then I began to run businesses and slowly became more aware of Government interference and their suffocating measures. I still "run" businesses and have not changed my mind.

I spent 3 and a half months in China recently and bought a lot of product. Why? Because no one got in my way. A total different experience than business in the West.

 

[Echoes]

Most americans are retarded and dont know squat about philosophy, private property and capitalism.

Left and Right=Red Sox Vs. Yankees. Pick a side and start hollering for your team. No principles, no core, no morals. I just want my team to win.

That's all both parties are. Two sides of the same evil, statist coin.

 

[heavenlyboy34]

Most americans are retarded and dont know squat about philosophy, private property and capitalism.

Left and Right=Red Sox Vs. Yankees. Pick a side and start hollering for your team. No principles, no core, no morals. I just want my team to win.

That's all both parties are. Two sides of the same evil, statist coin.

FTW!

 

[Mr. Perfidy]

ok so what about this then excludes Leftists from the Ron Paul message? Most of us here understand that the Left vs Right paradigm is false and dead and belongs already to the scrap heap of history. Why then would we only pursue those registered with the GOP as a means of gaining RP support?

Any Occupy people on here? How many people at the Occupations were Ron Paul supporters? A whole lot, in Philly anyway. Most of the young people didn't even want to talk in terms of Left and Right, and had totally internalized that the State was a criminal enemy of the People. But, their fashion, manner, personal associations, lifestyles and drugs/music of choice came from LEFT WING traditions. They grew toward adulthood with che guevara posters in their dorms, and that to them meant, "I support the lower classes and do not think that they should eat shit their whole life because of their birth rank."

I am saying that words like DEMOCRACY or LIBERAL, as they are only words and not real things, have different meaning to everyone who uses them. To a lot of people, the language of the left has nothing whatsoever to do with State intrusion and everything to do with support of regular people.

 

[Echoes]

ok so what about this then excludes Leftists from the Ron Paul message? Most of us here understand that the Left vs Right paradigm is false and dead and belongs already to the scrap heap of history. Why then would we only pursue those registered with the GOP as a means of gaining RP support?

Any Occupy people on here? How many people at the Occupations were Ron Paul supporters? A whole lot, in Philly anyway. Most of the young people didn't even want to talk in terms of Left and Right, and had totally internalized that the State was a criminal enemy of the People. But, their fashion, manner, personal associations, lifestyles and drugs/music of choice came from LEFT WING traditions. They grew toward adulthood with che guevara posters in their dorms, and that to them meant, "I support the lower classes and do not think that they should eat shit their whole life because of their birth rank."

I am saying that words like DEMOCRACY or LIBERAL, as they are only words and not real things, have different meaning to everyone who uses them. To a lot of people, the language of the left has nothing whatsoever to do with State intrusion and everything to do with support of regular people.

I agree, and why i fully support an independent run. A coalition of democrats, independents and fiscal conservatives could work well. It's a win-win, even if we loose the election Ron'll be in there injecting real topics and spreading the Idea to the masses.

The message is bigger then the person and we need as many ppl on our side when SHTF. And if i hear another person babble about Ron ruining Rands future and blah, blah...fuck 2016 and fuck the GOP. The time is now, gather ye flowers !

 

[HigherVision]

Really it depends on the individual, whether they're coming from a left or right background. Whether they're able to think critically and be honest with themselves determines whether they'll be able to recognize the truth. I know one thing, there's a lot of hate and vitriol towards us that comes from both sides and I find it disturbing.

One thing I think needs to end immediately though is factionalism among libertarians ourselves. There's only a few issues that seperate us: abortion, immigration - I think that's it. We have to be willing to compromise on these issues if we're going to build a large enough coalition to get the majority votes in elections.

 

[Mr. Perfidy]

separates us from whom?

 

[febo]

Why is this so disquieting to so many of you?

Welcome to the RP forums! There are a lot of deeply entrenched anti-leftist posters here. In my opinion they are either trolls or deficient in their understanding. Ignore them.

 

[Adam West]

Really it depends on the individual, whether they're coming from a left or right background. Whether they're able to think critically and be honest with themselves determines whether they'll be able to recognize the truth. I know one thing, there's a lot of hate and vitriol towards us that comes from both sides and I find it disturbing.

One thing I think needs to end immediately though is factionalism among libertarians ourselves. There's only a few issues that seperate us: abortion, immigration - I think that's it. We have to be willing to compromise on these issues if we're going to build a large enough coalition to get the majority votes in elections.

Let's get real.

There is no way to force women to have children if they don't want to. Why everybody goes on about this is beyond me. And about immigration, it is simply a situation of supply and demand.

It is in the interest of politicians to excaserbate these issues. That's how they get elected.

 

[Mr. Perfidy]

I hate the anti-mexican republican crowd. They always fall back on "they are exploiting america," as if any public employee is not more guilty of this.

Let's move beyond the theory though, since a lot of us are in agreement that the american left is generally receptive to the Dr's messages.

What can we do to target leftist sympathizers and bring them in?

 

[febo]

What can we do to target leftist sympathizers and bring them in?

Go for the "leaders". And expose the leftist media for its disgusting repression of the message of peace and liberty.
PS you seen this?
http://www.salon.com/2011/12/31/progressives_and_the_ron_paul_fallacies/singleton/

 

[Mr. Perfidy]

I was thinking that too- addressing the leadership. But, I fear that the leadership will often fall squarely in the dogmatic extremist statist camp.

I was thinking, for example, of the resurgent SDS as it reappeared on my campus in 2007. My friends and I attended a meeting, hoping to inject some Paulian anarchism as a plausible and marketable direction for their activism. We found however that the "leader" was a nitwit wannabe radical with no understanding of anything, and the "adviser" was some sad old man who used Crimestop to shoot down any discussion that we brought to the table. Leader idiot was clearly enamored with Adviser idiot's glorious tales of 60s activism, to the point of humiliating himself before the students who turned out the meeting. There was no SDS on campus after like 2 meetings, because everyone that showed up was turned off by that dynamic- the general consensus in the room was, "who is that old dumbass, and why does this tool up front love him so much?"

A lot of the kids that showed up to consider participation, however, did become Ron Paul people.

 

[Lishy]

The only answer to this thread is to check up on Revleft and see what they think

 

[Butchie]

I hate the anti-mexican republican crowd. They always fall back on "they are exploiting america," as if any public employee is not more guilty of this.

Let's move beyond the theory though, since a lot of us are in agreement that the american left is generally receptive to the Dr's messages.

What can we do to target leftist sympathizers and bring them in?

Why is it because you want to enforce our immigration laws that instantly makes you "anti-Mexican", I want illegals deported whether they are Mexican, Russian, Korean, whatever, it's about keeping our sovereignty, stop trying to make everything about race.

 

[Gray Fullbuster]

My only problem is the single issue voters on abortion who slam Dr.Paul RELENTLESSLY.

There are A LOT and they are pretty much human trash imho and are always liberals to the fullest. They don't even focus he's the only one with the chance to win to appeal MOST of the other liberal rhetoric, such as an increase in LGBT rights, cannabis legalization, ending of the wars (not a liberal positition just an anti-war one which everyone should love.)

Seriously, the only 2 sane voting options this time around are Dr.Paul or if he's too far right for you, Green Party.

 

[Intoxiklown]

Honestly, I have really don't run across a lot of "militant" leftists. Neo-cons, however.....


But yeah, a lot of the democrats on forums I frequent are actually MUCH easier to talk to then the neo-cons. Pretty much the only beef I ever see from the democrats is Paul wanting to cut government, and I mean really cut it. But that is expected, since the bulk of the democrat platform is big government designed for social services. I know quite a few democrats at a Fox blog I like to go to (Yes, I'm a glutton for insanity) who have openly said many times they enjoy debate with Ron Paul supporters. Until we get on economics...LOL....then they ignore me.

Of course, one main reason they like us there, is the neo-conservatives come at us like rabid damn yard dogs, and completely ignore the democrats.

And no, I have never seen one single friendly neo-con. That is one demographic that is completely vile with their "super patriotism". The argue against fact with opinion, and labels. Did you guys know I am a "Muslim lover Commie, who worships Hitler and hates the Jews and America"?

LULZ!