The Old Testament and Angels

[Sola_Fide]

Erowe1,

Do you regard "heaven and earth" as the literal creation or the temple and the Jewish system of things?

 

[erowe1]

Erowe1,

Do you regard "heaven and earth" as the literal creation or the temple and the Jewish system of things?

Literal creation. I think heaven and earth passing away probably refers to what will happen when the present heaven and earth will be replaced with a new heaven and new earth.

But I think Jesus fulfilled the law, and all was accomplished (as far as that verse is concerned), when he died on the cross.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

Maybe.

Or did he fulfill the law when he stood in the place of others to suffer the punishment the law requires for their sins?

Yes he took the law upon himself as the eternal atonement for human sin.He is also the judge in the end.

 

[erowe1]

Yes he took the law upon himself as the eternal atonement for human sin.He is also the judge in the end.

Right. But when he judges, is there only a justification (i.e. a judgment of righteousness) that is according to the law (Rom 2:12-13)? Or is there also a justification that is apart from the law (Rom 3:21-25)?

 

[Arklatex]

y'all take this way too serious! If you don't mind me saying!

 

[erowe1]

y'all take this way too serious! If you don't mind me saying!

Says the guy who thinks the ark was made of latex.

 

[Arklatex]

ok that made me laugh

 

[sorianofan]

Maybe.

Or did he fulfill the law when he stood in the place of others to suffer the punishment the law requires for their sins?

Exactly. You see, when I am judged by God I will be shown as unrighteous because of my failure to uphold the entirety of the Law. However, though I may beg for mercy I am confident that Jesus, who never broke the Law, is righteous for me. My crappy record is thrown in the trash, and His righteousness is put on my record because He makes me clean. I trust Him in that.

Thus, Jesus fulfilled the Law and we "died to the Law" (Romans 7:4).


The reason I brought up this stuff about Angels is that Paul and the author of Hebrews makes a very specific argument: that the Law was mediated through an inferior agent (angel) while the New Covenant is continually mediated by God Himself at all times (the Holy Spirit in us, Christ's intercession with the Father, and the Father's I suppose implicit forgiveness and sending the Holy Spirit.)

If you read the OT, you realize the ten commandments and revelations (i.e. Ezekiel's) came by an Angel of the Lord, whom the prophet addressed as the Lord. Sort of like a King using a messenger and the messenger tells you the King's decree. In response, we might tell the messenger our response, even addressing the messenger as the King.

 

[bubbleboy]

What is the sacrificial law? Does the Bible ever distinguish which parts of the law are the sacrificial law, and which parts aren't?

Its pretty obvious. Break the Ten Commandments and you need justification, sacrifice. Before Christ it was a turtle dove etc.... Commandments tell you WHAT sin is the other is for breaking it.

 

[erowe1]

Its pretty obvious. Break the Ten Commandments and you need justification, sacrifice. Before Christ it was a turtle dove etc.... Commandments tell you WHAT sin is the other is for breaking it.

So if the ancient Israelites didn't offer sacrifices, that in itself wouldn't have been a sin?

And even still, the law of Moses is pretty long. Do you really think that when you go through it it's obvious which parts you can categorize as "sacrificial laws" and which parts you can't? Because I've tried, and it isn't obvious to me. Nor can I think of anywhere in the Bible that that distinction is made.