The NAFTA Of The Pacific Will Soon Send Millions of American Jobs Overseas

Throughout the history of cabals and monopolies, the worker always gets blamed to hide the true reasons for poor management and lousy products/services from lack of competition.

As an example, a US car sticker price includes around 5% labor costs. To ship that car from Asia to the US is around 7%, proving labor costs to be irrelevant.

Henry Ford announced a >100% increase in workers minimum pay, more than double the going rate. This caused a huge influx of applicants, from which Ford could cull the best workers available and build the most capable and productive work force in the world.

Many aren't aware of the odds Ford faced upon incorporating his motor company. There was a cabal who sought to exclude him to the point of bankruptcy.





Invention and innovation lead to profits, not low wages. There isn't a single model in existence that proves lower wages are at the top of the list for success and profitability. OTOH, there are plenty of examples of low wages benefitting an illegally formed monopoly that stagnates innovation and invention after cornering a market they had nothing to do with creating in the first place.

Bosso

Good post. Shipping physical products long distances is extremely inefficient. Somehow that factor is often left out of the equation. Of course that would not serve propaganda purposes to tell the whole story.

Politicians and corporatists say "cheap labor! education!" and the zombies eat it up.
 
Good post. Shipping physical products long distances is extremely inefficient. Somehow that factor is often left out of the equation. Of course that would not serve propaganda purposes to tell the whole story.

Seriously? It's factored into the price you pay for the product itself--it's not like that magically disappears or goes "poof" when it arrives on US shores---the fact that other countries can produce something cheaper than us and it's still cheaper, after shipping costs (which I would point out are distributed amongst every single unit of good, so the cost is probably a lot lower than you think), shows just how inefficient we are at producing that good in comparison to said other country.
 
Seriously? It's factored into the price you pay for the product itself--it's not like that magically disappears or goes "poof" when it arrives on US shores---the fact that other countries can produce something cheaper than us and it's still cheaper, after shipping costs (which I would point out are distributed amongst every single unit of good, so the cost is probably a lot lower than you think), shows just how inefficient we are at producing that good in comparison to said other country.

We are more efficient than any other country, with our thumbs up our asses. This is evidenced by the facts; longest work week, shortest vacation, least sick days, shortest sick leave of any industrialized country. Although Asians have a longer work week, they are pitifully lacking in productivity vs the US. Whereas a Chinese industrial worker produces $12,642 worth of output, the average U.S. worker produces $63,885 of wealth per year, more than their counterparts in all other countries. In the United States, a manufacturing employee produced an unprecedented $104,606 of value in 2005, or 8 times the Asian counterpart. The United States, according to an ILO report, also beats all 27 nations in the European Union, Japan and Switzerland in the amount of wealth created per hour of work — a second key measure of productivity.

The problem lies in paying dues to monopolies. Health Insurance monopoly, Electricity Grid monopoly, Natural Gas monopoly, Telephone monopoly, ISP monopoly, Liability Insurance monopoly, Disability Insurance monopoly, Bonding monopoly, Trash Removal monopoly, Corporate Welfare dues, Unemployment Insurance monopoly, Green monopoly, etc.

Taxes and regulations are created by monopolies and enforced by their bought and paid for GS Pukes to stop competition and innovation and increase the amount of profit they can squeeze from lesser products & services they offer. This, of course, is also a major factor.

The laws, taxes and regs can be and usually are argued, but the point is that more often than not, the worker takes the blame and the red hot poker up the ass when there is, in reality, no basis for that argument and in fact, the complete opposite is true.

The monopolies move to 3rd world shit holes that allow them to pollute, build without standards, piss on their work force, manufacture without standards, and destroy their competition in the US through BS "free trade agreements", dumping, price-fixing and every other mafia tactic.

My wife just told me they found arsenic in apple cider vinegar and apple juices from China. This is because the factory whose by product is arsenic dumps it in the water supply of the apple orchards and apple products plants. That's only the very tip of the corrupt monopoly 3rd world business model iceberg that the US Titanic economy is steaming toward.

The worker gets the blame. It's Bullshit.

Bosso
 
The union membership rate for public sector workers (36.2 percent) was
substantially higher than the rate for private sector workers (6.9 percent).
i agree that goverment jobs should not have unions , this is still a free country where people can join a union or not. i think its called liberty.

with under 10% private jobs union , i guess thats why crest makes their tooth paste in China.
It all government that has caused the problems... the graft, corruption, conspiring, and controlling or being controlled by special interest partners in crime. Government has a monopoly, no discipline, no competition, no 100% accountability, no boss(majority of constituents are too stupid).

Then there's:
“It is difficult for men in high office to avoid the malady of self-delusion. They are always surrounded by worshipers. They are constantly, and for the most part sincerely, assured of their greatness. They live in an artificial atmosphere of adulation and exultation which sooner or later impairs their judgment. They are in grave danger of becoming careless and arrogant.” ~ President Calvin Coolidge
The analysis and info on the free trade agreement with Israel is classified top secret. What's that tell you about "Free Trade Agreements" of the US government?

More like PHONY TRADE AGREEMENTS
 
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We are more efficient than any other country, with our thumbs up our asses.

This is irrelevant for specific products--while we might be the most efficient, overall, that doesn't mean we're the most efficient at producing everything--(1)You eventually run into comparative advantage---you might be the best producer of everything in the world (again, we aren't), but its still best, for the nation to specialize in one thing rather than doing 50,000 things--the amount of actual products goes up...meaning more net wealth.

That said, we're definitely not the most efficient at everything---you'd have to be a lunatic to suggest that the US is the best producer of bananas in the world--it just doesn't work here because of a variable (in this case, weather). Citing a GDP efficiency statistic (which could be doubted in and of itself since government spending is factored into GDP) is really meaningless--again, you still run into comparative advantage, no matter how you cut or slice it.

Also, where did I blame the worker in my post?
 
Seriously? It's factored into the price you pay for the product itself--it's not like that magically disappears or goes "poof" when it arrives on US shores---the fact that other countries can produce something cheaper than us and it's still cheaper, after shipping costs (which I would point out are distributed amongst every single unit of good, so the cost is probably a lot lower than you think), shows just how inefficient we are at producing that good in comparison to said other country.

Or course it could be other factors other than eficiency. eg: the us govt telling gibson guitar that all these problems of being raided and having their materials/products stolen at gunpoint "would just go away if you just move your manufacturing overseas". which the US govt actually said in a court filing.
 
Or course it could be other factors other than eficiency. eg: the us govt telling gibson guitar that all these problems of being raided and having their materials/products stolen at gunpoint "would just go away if you just move your manufacturing overseas". which the US govt actually said in a court filing.

While I have no doubt there are isolated incidences of that, I would have a very very very hard time ever believing it was systemic---preferences change, other countries figure out better ways of doing it, their wages are more competitive for a particular product, and/or regulations are better for an environment revolving around the creation of product "X".
 
While I have no doubt there are isolated incidences of that, I would have a very very very hard time ever believing it was systemic---preferences change, other countries figure out better ways of doing it, their wages are more competitive for a particular product, and/or regulations are better for an environment revolving around the creation of product "X".

To be honest, you sound like a globalist monopoly shill. This is their meme. "We'll buy up the new idea and send it to our shit factory in polluteville because our workers there can do it better and everyone will be better off".

You're confusing something here or I'm just not getting your point.

Your earlier charge that I'd have to be a lunatic to believe Americans are better at producing bananas, though extreme, is equally bullshit. You obviously don't have any firsthand knowledge of the banana industry, or do you think CAFTA is so that Guatemalans can buy a Cadillac Escalade duty free?. Actually, the US exports more bananas than Guatemala, so maybe we have to go the Ecuador to study their banana export model to verify your claim. If you think hordes of small banana pickers lugging their bunches to the freight ship on banana day couldn't be done more productively by Americans then call me a lunatic.

The move, for example, to send US steel capacity to Asia was a cold, calculated move. It had zero to do with labor cost savings. I'll repeat, it had ZERO to do with labor costs. The steel magnates (banks) used the wildly distorted business cycles of the 70s to set labor up to take the blame. It took sending the top US production, management and quality control engineers to Asia for a decade and a half before the Chinese could make a wood screw that didn't break when driven into pine (and they haven't improved much since).

Someone invents a product, someone invents a production method for the product, someone invents the machinery for the production lines, someone builds the machinery, someone mans the line to actually produce the product, someone inspects the product for QC.

The Asians don't get a lower price for the raw materials. They don't get a better price on the machines from Japan and Germany for the production line. They need 8 workers for every American to produce the same wealth. Their "scrap it" rate is astronomically higher because they don't have a "save it" department and their skill levels must be seen to even comprehend the vast gulf. The freight is a cost that isn't incurred here at all.

We import and pay a premium price for faucets made in Germany because they're the best engineered and highest quality faucets in the world... NOT because they're cheaper. No American would by a Chinese made pot metal and plastic look alike because no entrepreneur in the US would consider seeking out a Chinese build house to import such a shit product.

Home Depot, OTOH, would not only try a move like that, they have with thousands of products, for decades. This is the missing piece of the product development, manufacturing, shipping puzzle; marketing. The very same reason Ron Paul isn't the front runner. The globalists control the marketing. They can lie through their teeth with impunity. They can sell obsolete products as "new and improved", filling the landfills to overflow while they sic the GS Pukes on their US competition to force them to "Go Green, or else".

It took the Chinese 2,000 years longer to discover the wheel. They don't like modernization. They were perfectly happy for thousands of years. Then the empire was overthrown by the communists and Davey Rockefeller was on his way for a visit soon thereafter. Next came MFN status followed by "The Chinese Miracle".

American productivity, OTOH, evolved voluntarily. The worlds entrepreneurs risked everything to come here and work 70 hours a week for free on top of 70 hours for subsistence wages in hopes of realizing their dreams because it was the only place in the world where that scenario was possible.

Those 2 cultures compete? That's like a Canadian sandlot football team playing the Green Bay Packers. Period. And I'm awfully weary of hearing the global free trade horse shit story. Especially the part that blames our being forced to buy obsolete, toxic, cheesy bullshit products (sold as a good thing by marketeers and many people on this forum) on the "fat, lazy, stupid, overpaid, leeching ingrate" US worker. BTW, this was a propaganda campaign that began at the same time steel production was being moved to Asia. You know, "Japanese worker noble, humble and good... American worker stupid, obnoxious and lazy".

There are 30 electric car companies in the US. They've been building viable and affordable products for years. Can you name a few? Have you seen their products anywhere in the news... ever? No. We'll have to wait until communist GM rolls out their twice as expensive, doesn't work version of parts made in China and assembled in Mexico. Why? Because the globalists control marketing and capital. They'll starve the entrepreneur while convincing you that their global version of the product is green and better made elsewhere, where "they can figure out better ways of doing it".

Believe me, if it were true, I'd embrace it. I've been in US manufacturing/retailing for 40 years. I lived through the transition. I've toured plants and studied raw mats in to boxed product out since I was 17. I've studied marketing. I spoke with the Home Depot folks when they were a lumber yard chain in Atlanta in the early 80s. Etc. It isn't true. None of it. That's why I don't embrace it and never will. The American entrepreneur is being lynched and his rotting corpse is being left to dangle for everyone to see. And there are many Americans who are cheering the whole affair and talking down to those who are aware and alarmed as though they're pitiable idiots.

Of course, there's a lot more to it. I just don't have the time or inclination to write a book. But, if you or anyone else is gonna tell me how it is with bananas or whatever, please include some data to back it up instead of the usual smoke and arrogance.

Bosso
 
To be honest, you sound like a globalist monopoly shill. This is their meme. "We'll buy up the new idea and send it to our shit factory in polluteville because our workers there can do it better and everyone will be better off".

You're confusing something here or I'm just not getting your point.

Your earlier charge that I'd have to be a lunatic to believe Americans are better at producing bananas, though extreme, is equally bullshit. You obviously don't have any firsthand knowledge of the banana industry, or do you think CAFTA is so that Guatemalans can buy a Cadillac Escalade duty free?. Actually, the US exports more bananas than Guatemala, so maybe we have to go the Ecuador to study their banana export model to verify your claim. If you think hordes of small banana pickers lugging their bunches to the freight ship on banana day couldn't be done more productively by Americans then call me a lunatic.

The move, for example, to send US steel capacity to Asia was a cold, calculated move. It had zero to do with labor cost savings. I'll repeat, it had ZERO to do with labor costs. The steel magnates (banks) used the wildly distorted business cycles of the 70s to set labor up to take the blame. It took sending the top US production, management and quality control engineers to Asia for a decade and a half before the Chinese could make a wood screw that didn't break when driven into pine (and they haven't improved much since).

Someone invents a product, someone invents a production method for the product, someone invents the machinery for the production lines, someone builds the machinery, someone mans the line to actually produce the product, someone inspects the product for QC.

The Asians don't get a lower price for the raw materials. They don't get a better price on the machines from Japan and Germany for the production line. They need 8 workers for every American to produce the same wealth. Their "scrap it" rate is astronomically higher because they don't have a "save it" department and their skill levels must be seen to even comprehend the vast gulf. The freight is a cost that isn't incurred here at all.

We import and pay a premium price for faucets made in Germany because they're the best engineered and highest quality faucets in the world... NOT because they're cheaper. No American would by a Chinese made pot metal and plastic look alike because no entrepreneur in the US would consider seeking out a Chinese build house to import such a shit product.

Home Depot, OTOH, would not only try a move like that, they have with thousands of products, for decades. This is the missing piece of the product development, manufacturing, shipping puzzle; marketing. The very same reason Ron Paul isn't the front runner. The globalists control the marketing. They can lie through their teeth with impunity. They can sell obsolete products as "new and improved", filling the landfills to overflow while they sic the GS Pukes on their US competition to force them to "Go Green, or else".

It took the Chinese 2,000 years longer to discover the wheel. They don't like modernization. They were perfectly happy for thousands of years. Then the empire was overthrown by the communists and Davey Rockefeller was on his way for a visit soon thereafter. Next came MFN status followed by "The Chinese Miracle".

American productivity, OTOH, evolved voluntarily. The worlds entrepreneurs risked everything to come here and work 70 hours a week for free on top of 70 hours for subsistence wages in hopes of realizing their dreams because it was the only place in the world where that scenario was possible.

Those 2 cultures compete? That's like a Canadian sandlot football team playing the Green Bay Packers. Period. And I'm awfully weary of hearing the global free trade horse shit story. Especially the part that blames our being forced to buy obsolete, toxic, cheesy bullshit products (sold as a good thing by marketeers and many people on this forum) on the "fat, lazy, stupid, overpaid, leeching ingrate" US worker. BTW, this was a propaganda campaign that began at the same time steel production was being moved to Asia. You know, "Japanese worker noble, humble and good... American worker stupid, obnoxious and lazy".

There are 30 electric car companies in the US. They've been building viable and affordable products for years. Can you name a few? Have you seen their products anywhere in the news... ever? No. We'll have to wait until communist GM rolls out their twice as expensive, doesn't work version of parts made in China and assembled in Mexico. Why? Because the globalists control marketing and capital. They'll starve the entrepreneur while convincing you that their global version of the product is green and better made elsewhere, where "they can figure out better ways of doing it".

Believe me, if it were true, I'd embrace it. I've been in US manufacturing/retailing for 40 years. I lived through the transition. I've toured plants and studied raw mats in to boxed product out since I was 17. I've studied marketing. I spoke with the Home Depot folks when they were a lumber yard chain in Atlanta in the early 80s. Etc. It isn't true. None of it. That's why I don't embrace it and never will. The American entrepreneur is being lynched and his rotting corpse is being left to dangle for everyone to see. And there are many Americans who are cheering the whole affair and talking down to those who are aware and alarmed as though they're pitiable idiots.

Of course, there's a lot more to it. I just don't have the time or inclination to write a book. But, if you or anyone else is gonna tell me how it is with bananas or whatever, please include some data to back it up instead of the usual smoke and arrogance.

Bosso

You never once dealt with Comparative Advantage, the main basis of Fox McCloud's posts. That was just a long post full of ancedotes, and more conspiracy theories coupled with accusations that people on this board are somehow involved in this conspiracy. From the sounds of it, you come from a firm that cannot compete, so you're asking the government to use violence to enrich yourself.

People "blame labor" because Unions are largely a bunch of violent thugs that use coercion to enrich themselves at the expense of every one else. Unions have a long, sad, history of lobbying government to keep blacks, woman, and immigrants out of the market, creating wage controls designed to keep low skill laborors out of the market, having government raise taxes on foreign imports to prevent competition, using government to create work stopages, and of using government to give themselves a monopoly on labor. Union's have used government force as their tool from day one.
 
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We are more efficient than any other country, with our thumbs up our asses. This is evidenced by the facts; longest work week, shortest vacation, least sick days, shortest sick leave of any industrialized country. Although Asians have a longer work week, they are pitifully lacking in productivity vs the US. Whereas a Chinese industrial worker produces $12,642 worth of output, the average U.S. worker produces $63,885 of wealth per year, more than their counterparts in all other countries. In the United States, a manufacturing employee produced an unprecedented $104,606 of value in 2005, or 8 times the Asian counterpart. The United States, according to an ILO report, also beats all 27 nations in the European Union, Japan and Switzerland in the amount of wealth created per hour of work — a second key measure of productivity.

Imagine that! A worker in the United States earns more United States dollars than workers thousands of miles away from the source. I never made the connection until now. Thanks!
 
You never once dealt with Comparative Advantage, the main basis of Fox McCloud's posts. That was just a long post full of ancedotes, and more conspiracy theories coupled with accusations that people on this board are somehow involved in this conspiracy. From the sounds of it, you come from a firm that cannot compete, so you're asking the government to use violence to enrich yourself.

People "blame labor" because Unions are largely a bunch of violent thugs that use coercion to enrich themselves at the expense of every one else. Unions have a long, sad, history of lobbying government to keep blacks, woman, and immigrants out of the market, creating wage controls designed to keep low skill laborors out of the market, having government raise taxes on foreign imports to prevent competition, using government to create work stopages, and of using government to give themselves a monopoly on labor. Union's have used government force as their tool from day one.

Who's posting anecdotal stereotypical cartoon images?

For the reading impaired;

Fox: Other countries are more efficient. So much so as to overcome the addition of shipping costs and still be cheaper.

Bosso: BS. We're more efficient than all other countries according to the facts of the matter.

Fox: Data is irrelevant. We aren't the most efficient banana producer. Specialization is better than absolute advantage. Comparative advantage is the end result in all cases.

Bosso: The decimation of the US economy isn't about productivity/efficiency, absolute or comparative. If it were solely a matter of productivity and/or efficiency, the US economy would be booming, which was my point. US economic decline is the result of a conspiracy by the bankers for [fill in your own reason, as that part of the conspiracy is irrelevant to me and the discussion] while they blamed labor, which is a plate of bullshit. (And, apparently, you've lapped the bullshit up like a hog at the trough)

As to your union conspiracy theory, less than 12% of the US workforce is union. More than 1/2 of them are in the public sector. Government employees are a drain on any society. Whether or not they're in a union is irrelevant. In discussing US productivity and efficiency, unions, which I've not mentioned... are all but irrelevant and, if anything contributed to productivity and efficiency in the US economy. Since you have mentioned unions, slathered with high drama, what's your point?

Bosso
 
Imagine that! A worker in the United States earns more United States dollars than workers thousands of miles away from the source. I never made the connection until now. Thanks!

There's nothing in the post you quoted about what workers from any country earn.

Bosso
 
For the reading impaired;

Fox: Other countries are more efficient. So much so as to overcome the addition of shipping costs and still be cheaper.

Bosso: BS. We're more efficient than all other countries according to the facts of the matter.

Fox: Data is irrelevant. We aren't the most efficient banana producer. Specialization is better than absolute advantage. Comparative advantage is the end result in all cases.

Bosso: The decimation of the US economy isn't about productivity/efficiency, absolute or comparative. If it were solely a matter of productivity and/or efficiency, the US economy would be booming, which was my point. US economic decline is the result of a conspiracy by the bankers for [fill in your own reason, as that part of the conspiracy is irrelevant to me and the discussion] while they blamed labor, which is a plate of bullshit.

Yes. That is what this conversation has largely been about...

And, apparently, you've lapped the bullshit up like a hog at the trough

No, I'm simply not part of a special interest group who has made money off of this coercive system. Unions have a long, disguisting, history of racism, discrimination, and violence. Do you care to dispute this?

As to your union conspiracy theory, less than 12% of the US workforce is union. More than 1/2 of them are in the public sector. Government employees are a drain on any society. Whether or not they're in a union is irrelevant. In discussing US productivity and efficiency, unions, which I've not mentioned...

Unions have been constantly referenced to through out this topic.

unions, which I've not mentioned... are all but irrelevant and, if anything contributed to productivity and efficiency in the US economy.

They have not contributed to anything but greater government.

Since you have mentioned unions, slathered with high drama, what's your point?

Some labor should be blamed for the United States decline.
 
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Yes. That is what this conversation has largely been about...



No, I'm simply not part of a special interest group who has made money off of this coercive system. Unions have a long, disguisting, history of racism, discrimination, and violence. Do you care to dispute this?



Unions have been constantly referenced to through out this topic.



They have not contributed to anything but greater government.



Some labor should be blamed for the United States decline.

His point is that the union rant is fallacious for current purposes of discussion but it sure serves to fuel the fire of blame which is being misdirected.
The percentage of private sector workers in unions fell to 6.9 percent

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/22/business/22union.html

Furthermore at its height it appears that private sector unions were only 35% of the work force and this was around WW II.
The United States was the only advanced capitalist democracy where unions went into prolonged decline right after World War II. At 35 percent, the unionization rate in 1945 was the highest in American history, but even then it was lower than in most other advanced capitalist economies. It has been falling since.

http://eh.net/encyclopedia/article/friedman.unions.us
 
Comparative advantage does not work when one side of the equation is, for all intents and purposes, a prison economy.

You never once dealt with Comparative Advantage, the main basis of Fox McCloud's posts. That was just a long post full of ancedotes, and more conspiracy theories coupled with accusations that people on this board are somehow involved in this conspiracy. From the sounds of it, you come from a firm that cannot compete, so you're asking the government to use violence to enrich yourself.

People "blame labor" because Unions are largely a bunch of violent thugs that use coercion to enrich themselves at the expense of every one else. Unions have a long, sad, history of lobbying government to keep blacks, woman, and immigrants out of the market, creating wage controls designed to keep low skill laborors out of the market, having government raise taxes on foreign imports to prevent competition, using government to create work stopages, and of using government to give themselves a monopoly on labor. Union's have used government force as their tool from day one.
 
Comparative advantage does not work when one side of the equation is, for all intents and purposes, a prison economy.

Well the Chinese can screw themselves over all they want, even if it means to create a "prison economy," but what the U.S. shouldn't do is create a "prison economy" of their own.
 
You never once dealt with Comparative Advantage, the main basis of Fox McCloud's posts. That was just a long post full of ancedotes, and more conspiracy theories coupled with accusations that people on this board are somehow involved in this conspiracy.

I doubt anyone here is involved in the conspiracy, but there are a great many who are oblivious to it.

All of this pushing to get cheaper foreign goods imported into the United States is nothing more than a cover-up—a rat-race to outpace the declining value of the dollar. If I keep getting cheaper goods at Wal-Mart, what do I care if the dollar is losing its value? The politicians DO NOT want Americans to try to produce stuff here, because they will quickly realize how little the dollar buys if they try to put it to use here in the states. So, consume, consume, consume we must.
 
You have given out too much Reputation in the last 24 hours, try again later.

I gave out all my rep in this thread. IOU one, because that is truth right there.

Cheap shit imports have been masking the decline of the dollar for decades now.

That train is getting ready to jump the track.

I doubt anyone here is involved in the conspiracy, but there are a great many who are oblivious to it.

All of this pushing to get cheaper foreign goods imported into the United States is nothing more than a cover-up—a rat-race to outpace the declining value of the dollar. If I keep getting cheaper goods at Wal-Mart, what do I care if the dollar is losing its value? The politicians DO NOT want Americans to try to produce stuff here, because they will quickly realize how little the dollar buys if they try to put it to use here in the states. So, consume, consume, consume we must.
 
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