The NAFTA Of The Pacific Will Soon Send Millions of American Jobs Overseas

[jmdrake]

My original post was clearly only about union labor being pushed above market prices. I don't care about non union labor. That was all I was addressing.

Fine and dandy. But this is the post bomboss was responding to when you made that point.

so what? all these people supporting unions and democrats deserve to have their job shipped over seas. it makes me smile when i see on the news that a union factory has to close.

My counter point is that psi2941 is being shortsighted by thinking that it's "unions and democrats" being shafted by what's going on as opposed to the American people in general. You seemed to be supporting his position. My mistake if you weren't.

 

[specsaregood]

Markets are flexable. If China cut off the welfare, the US would simply have a shift towards manufacturing. It is not like manufacturing jobs need extensive training. Within a few years, the market would adapt.

Having the facilities takes time to setup, there is training; you have to have the resources to setup both of those. not to mention the significant lead your new competitors have on you. Getting cut off from the free fish and leaving you penniless and without fishing supplies -- let alone a boat -- ain't pretty. I didn't say it was impossible to overcome, just that it aint pretty when the cutoff happens. those would be some tough, lean years.

 

[Cutlerzzz]

Fine and dandy. But this is the post bomboss was responding to when you made that point.




My counter point is that psi2941 is being shortsighted by thinking that it's "unions and democrats" being shafted by what's going on as opposed to the American people in general. You seemed to be supporting his position. My mistake if you weren't.

If the Union was a voluntary private sector union, I am ok with it.

 

[dannno]

There's no such thing as sending jobs overseas.

Go to any major port in the country and look in all the shipping containers and try to find the one that has the jobs in it.

You gotta look in the envelopes that contain the paychecks

 

[Brian4Liberty]

Seriously? It's factored into the price you pay for the product itself--it's not like that magically disappears or goes "poof" when it arrives on US shores---the fact that other countries can produce something cheaper than us and it's still cheaper, after shipping costs (which I would point out are distributed amongst every single unit of good, so the cost is probably a lot lower than you think), shows just how inefficient we are at producing that good in comparison to said other country.

I had forgotten about this thread until I happened to catch some radio show (maybe Levin?) where an "American" businessman was complaining he couldn't compete anymore, and he needed his tax cuts so he could compete (seeking favoritism from the government).

But the huge irony was this: he was in the importing business and his big complaint was that shipping and transportation was too expensive. This importer appeared to be having trouble competing with American industry! And his proposed solution? He wants help from the government. He probably wants a tax break for the cost of shipping!

 

[Lovecraftian4Paul]

It would be so, so nice if we ever got back to fair trade agreements between two countries, rather than putting us at a distinct disadvantage.

 

[Anti Federalist]

I generally look down my nose at threads or posts that have some message of "you're doing it all wrong" and go on to preach about how saying this, that or the other thing will hurt Ron Paul's chances of winning the primary and then the general election.

But this is one time I think it's deserved.

What is the number one priority that voters routinely list as their biggest concern?

Jobs. Jobs. And Jobs.

People, for the most part, don't give a rat's ass about the things we argue about constantly here, loss of freedoms, wars, the encroaching police state. They are worried about paying the upside down mortgage, the car payments, the taxes and how to afford to send little Johnny to a $250,000 college.

Is this right? Well, no, frankly, but it is the fact.

Gloating over people losing middle class jobs, their homes, their livelihoods and future, and telling them that they better be prepared to compete with foreign slave labor for a daily millet ration, is not going to win anybody any friends or votes.

 

[Bossobass]

Gloating over people losing middle class jobs, their homes, their livelihoods and future, and telling them that they better be prepared to compete with foreign slave labor for a daily millet ration, is not going to win anybody any friends or votes.

I agree with you, AF, but I just wanted to make it clear for the record...

My point was that they can and do compete, producing more wealth than all other nations; slaves or royalty, sweatshops or the lap of luxury, free or imprisoned, educated or ignorant... Americans are the most productive group who ever walked on this orb.

They're losing their jobs because the bankers purchased industry with pussy paper and yanked it elsewhere. They didn't stop there. They had the old plants razed to the ground and, having lobbied for the debt and underwritten the bonds, saw to it that shopping malls were built in their stead. They didn't stop there, either. They lobbied their sock puppets to create dozens of new federal government agencies to enforce thousands of new laws to be positively sure that no entrepreneurs would spring up to kick their sorry, mismanaged, shit-producing, inefficient asses into epic fail. And, they underwrote the bonds to create those agencies by watering down our currency and lending it to us while we searched for a job in the "new economy".

If that ain't all enough, they have the balls to blame it on labor.

I grew up in Pittsburgh. I knew plenty of steel workers. Both of my grandfathers were steel workers. I worked in my own business selling them goods and services. None of them died rich. But, at making steel and aluminum, they were the industrial bad asses of all time. And those who would cast aspersions on them out of ignorance in some bullshit free trade agreement thread are gonna get a rebuttal from me. "We can shave a 10 thousandth off a 20 ton disc". That's a far cry from the pot metal and plastic crap WalMart offers. And, today, we can't even cast a 20 ton disc, much less machine it to within 1-10 thousandth.

See ya on the front lines...

Bosso

 

[Anti Federalist]

Brother, I don't have enough rep to give that post.

I agree with you, AF, but I just wanted to make it clear for the record...

My point was that they can and do compete, producing more wealth than all other nations; slaves or royalty, sweatshops or the lap of luxury, free or imprisoned, educated or ignorant... Americans are the most productive group who ever walked on this orb.

They're losing their jobs because the bankers purchased industry with pussy paper and yanked it elsewhere. They didn't stop there. They had the old plants razed to the ground and, having lobbied for the debt and underwritten the bonds, saw to it that shopping malls were built in their stead. They didn't stop there, either. They lobbied their sock puppets to create dozens of new federal government agencies to enforce thousands of new laws to be positively sure that no entrepreneurs would spring up to kick their sorry, mismanaged, shit-producing, inefficient asses into epic fail. And, they underwrote the bonds to create those agencies by watering down our currency and lending it to us while we searched for a job in the "new economy".

If that ain't all enough, they have the balls to blame it on labor.

I grew up in Pittsburgh. I knew plenty of steel workers. Both of my grandfathers were steel workers. I worked in my own business selling them goods and services. None of them died rich. But, at making steel and aluminum, they were the industrial bad asses of all time. And those who would cast aspersions on them out of ignorance in some bullshit free trade agreement thread are gonna get a rebuttal from me. "We can shave a 10 thousandth off a 20 ton disc". That's a far cry from the pot metal and plastic crap WalMart offers. And, today, we can't even cast a 20 ton disc, much less machine it to within 1-10 thousandth.

See ya on the front lines...

Bosso

 

[moostraks]

That in no way related to my post.

uhh...yeah it did since you were fluffing off foreign manufacturers being a prison environment as debatable and a leftist talking point. It seems as if you are neglecting to acknowledge there is evidence of the piss poor quality of choice available to those who are working for a pittance in this scenario. Thus they are choosing suicide as an alternative and now the benevolent companies are installing nets to prevent their captive employees from seeking the ultimate escape from their jobs.

 

[Sematary]

There's no such thing as sending jobs overseas.

Go to any major port in the country and look in all the shipping containers and try to find the one that has the jobs in it.

Probably better to follow the money trail.

 

[Cutlerzzz]

uhh...yeah it did since you were fluffing off foreign manufacturers being a prison environment as debatable and a leftist talking point. It seems as if you are neglecting to acknowledge there is evidence of the piss poor quality of choice available to those who are working for a pittance in this scenario. Thus they are choosing suicide as an alternative and now the benevolent companies are installing nets to prevent their captive employees from seeking the ultimate escape from their jobs.

My post said "assuming that you are correct", meaning I did not care enough to debate it and conceded the point. Reading is helpfull.

 

[erowe1]

uhh...yeah it did since you were fluffing off foreign manufacturers being a prison environment as debatable and a leftist talking point. It seems as if you are neglecting to acknowledge there is evidence of the piss poor quality of choice available to those who are working for a pittance in this scenario. Thus they are choosing suicide as an alternative and now the benevolent companies are installing nets to prevent their captive employees from seeking the ultimate escape from their jobs.

The solution to this is to increase the number of factories in those places.

 

[Cutlerzzz]

The solution to this is to increase the number of factories in those places.

They would be much better off if they were no longer being expoited by Western investors building productive factories. Clearly, they are being exploited now, and were better off 30 years ago when they were starving in the millions.

 

[psi2941]

Fine and dandy. But this is the post bomboss was responding to when you made that point.




My counter point is that psi2941 is being shortsighted by thinking that it's "unions and democrats" being shafted by what's going on as opposed to the American people in general. You seemed to be supporting his position. My mistake if you weren't.

I'll be here in a week to defend myself I have no internet at home. AT&T uverse will install internet at my house next monday cant debate on a iPhone, only read what people are posting