The Most Significant Example of Socialism in the U.S. (Postal Service)

[Matt Collins]

The Most Significant Example of Socialism in the U.S."

"The United States Postal Service is an anachronism. Yale's law and economics scholar George Priest has characterized it as 'the most significant example of socialism in the United States...[embracing] almost all the aspects of socialism rejected in Eastern Europe and in the privatized Western economies.'

"It employs 30 percent of the nonmilitary federal workforce; pays wages and benefits 30 percent above competitive levels; and operates more than 60 percent of its offices at a loss.

"The Postal Service has survived -- despite high costs, bland offerings, and comparatively middling service -- by exploiting its two statutory monopolies: the carriage of First Class mail, and exclusive access to customer-owned mail boxes.

"Congress must be encouraged to abjure postal monopolies, and to privatize the Postal Service."


http://www.theadvocates.org/liberator/vol-12-num-21.html#GBU

 

[Dustancostine]

"Congress must be encouraged to abjure postal monopolies, and to privatize the Postal Service."

Everything was right on until the last sentence. The way to overturn socialism (government monopolies) is not with fascism (government enforced private monopolies, i.e. privatization), the correct course is to legalize competition. The last thing that I want is to have Haliburton have an exclusive contract for delivering my mail. Just let everyone who wants deliver to mail boxes and the problem is solved.

--Dustan

 

[Matt Collins]

Everything was right on until the last sentence. The way to overturn socialism (government monopolies) is not with fascism (government enforced private monopolies, i.e. privatization), the correct course is to legalize competition. The last thing that I want is to have Haliburton have an exclusive contract for delivering my mail. Just let everyone who wants deliver to mail boxes and the problem is solved.

--Dustan

Good point - I don't know if that is what the original author meant, but it should not be affiliated with the government either way.

 

[Corydoras]

Yes, just because the postal service is in the Constitution doesn't mean it has to be a monopoly.

 

[LFOD]

100% behind the idea of simply ending the law which says only the USPS can put mail in the box which I BOUGHT. This would instantly allow competition, as THE major obstacle to competition for mail delivery is the overwhelming expense of having to put up a separate mailbox for everyone. My family owns a community newspaper. We spend hundreds of thousands of $ every year on mail. And yet we are not treated as customers, we are treated as simply "more work". And then they get to pop off a 20% increase in postage for newspapers, in one year, and there's nothing we can do.

I agree that there's no need to "privatize" the USPS or anything like that. Just allow competition. If the customer prefers the USPS, fine. But how about allowing the choice?

 

[sweetlou]

Well, hmmm oviously i see that you people all need to educate yourselves on the Postal Service...

well lets see... I dont see why Ron would want to Alienate himself from the 750,000 men and women workers of the USPS... Firstly your statement about 60% of the offices are at a loss IS ABSURD.. Ask yourself this? What would Private Business do with those 60% of post offices??? THEY WOULD CLOSE THEM. The USPS is mandated by congress to Break even every year. SECONDLY I DONT WANT 6 DIFFERENT PEOPLE COMING TO MY MAILBOX EVERYDAY, where SOME KID GETTING PAID MINIMUM WAGE IS RESPONIBLE FOR MY MAIL... THIRDLY IF YOU OPEN IT TO PRIVATE BUSINESS... NO PRIVATE BUSINESS WILL DELIVER EVERY DAY TO THE RURAL AREAS SO YOU COULD PROBABLY EXPECT TO PAY 10 DOLLARS TO MAIL A LETTER from these areas... THE USPS DELIVERS TO EVERY ADDRESS EVERYDAY. IT IS MANDATED BY THE CONSTITUTION.. How can you call yourself a constitutionalist if you dont support the constitution???

WE HAVE THE BEST POSTAL SERVICE AT THE BEST PRICE OF ANY NATION PERIOD. How much would it cost you to send a letter from new york to hawaii? 41 cents?? try sending it there yourself and see what it costs?



We deliver to every home and business in the United States. Every American has access to our services and pays the same postage regardless of where they live or work. We …

Process and deliver more than 213 billion pieces of mail — letters, cards, ads, bills, payments and packages — every year.
Nearly 703 million pieces per day
More than 29 million pieces per hour
More than 488,000 pieces per minute
More than 8,000 pieces per second
Deliver mail to more than 300 million people at 146 million homes, businesses and PO Boxes in every state, city and town, and in Puerto Rico, Guam, the American Virgin Islands and American Samoa.
Add 1.8 million new addresses each year to our delivery network — equivalent to the number of addresses in a city the size of Chicago.
Serve more than 9 million customers daily at nearly 37,000 Post Offices.
Have annual operating revenue of nearly $73 billion.
Are the second-largest employer in the United States.
Employ nearly 700,000 career employees.
Pay nearly $2 billion in employee salaries and benefits every two weeks.
Do not receive tax dollars for operations. We are a self-supporting agency, using the revenue from the sale of postage and products to pay expenses.
We handle more than 46 percent of the world's card and letter mail volume — delivering more mail to more addresses to a larger geographical area than any other post in the world.
We move mail using planes, trains, trucks, cars, boats, ferries, helicopters, bicycles, hovercrafts, subways and even mules.
We operate the largest civilian vehicle fleet in the world with more than 216,000 vehicles driving more than 1.2 billion miles each year and using nearly 121 million gallons of fuel.
When fuel costs increase one penny, our costs increase $8 million.
Each letter carrier delivers an average of nearly 2,900 pieces of mail a day to more than 500 addresses.
In 2006, we processed and delivered 25.9 billion pounds of mail — 85 million pounds per day.
About 14 percent of the nation’s population moves every year, generating more than 45 million address changes.
We add an average of 3,500 new deliveries every day.
We forward more than 2 billion pieces of mail a year.
Rural carriers drive 3.4 million miles daily to deliver to 37 million addresses.
We issue nearly 900,000 money orders per day.
Automated Postal Centers (APCs) are self-service kiosks that provide customers with access to the most frequently purchased postal products and services.
Customers can purchase stamps at:
More than 33,000 commercial retail outlets.
17,000 banking and credit union ATMs.
2,500 APCs.
Thousands of vending machines located nationwide.
Neither snow nor rain nor heat nor gloom of night stays these couriers from the swift completion of their appointed rounds.



These words, inscribed at the top of the James A. Farley building in New York City, are considered to be the motto of the Postal Service. In fact, it isn't a motto at all. The phrase is the translation of an ancient Greek work of Herodotus describing the Persian system of mounted carriers, c. 500 B.C.

 

[ThePieSwindler]

Eh, honestly i have no problem with things like the USPS, AmTrak(though id want private competition to NOT be outlawed - government can compete, but they cannot monopolize arbitrarily, IMO) etc. Im a big fan of radical privitization (social security, health care, even schooling) but things like the USPS are actual public goods that provide an excellent service for ALL americans and costs very little overall in taxes.

Then again, before spooner's American Mail company, it was becoming a very expensive, growing monopoly, ane the AMC put it in check and forced the post office to lower prices. Of course, this probably meant taxes had to be raised. I think certain government services are fairly useful, in fact, thought some private competition should always be allowed. No public good should be fully monopolized by government, because then if the good does increase in cost, government doesnt have anything keeping it in check.

 

[sweetlou]

i dont think people understand that there IS NO MONOPOLY by the USPS... THAT IS A MYTH.... You CAN receive packages from many different companies including UPS, FEDEX, DHL ETC.... YOU COULD EVEN START YOUR OWN DELIVERY SERVICE IF YOU WANTED TO for Letters... BUT YOU JUST CANT USE MY MAILBOX... If you WANT TO START YOUR OWN POSTAL SERVICE COME UP WITH YOUR OWN MAIL RECEPTACLE... I DONT WANT some kid who gets paid minimum wage delivering my mail..


QUES:
WHY DONT YOU THINK THAT UPS AND FEDEX DONT START THEIR OWN DELIVERY SERVICE?

Ans: BECAUSE IT WOULD NOT BE PROFITABLE!!!!!!!

 

[ThePieSwindler]

i dont think people understand that there IS NO MONOPOLY by the USPS... THAT IS A MYTH.... You CAN receive packages from many different companies including UPS, FEDEX, DHL ETC.... YOU COULD EVEN START YOUR OWN DELIVERY SERVICE IF YOU WANTED TO for Letters... BUT YOU JUST CANT USE MY MAILBOX... If you WANT TO START YOUR OWN POSTAL SERVICE COME UP WITH YOUR OWN MAIL RECEPTACLE... I DONT WANT some kid who gets paid minimum wage delivering my mail..


QUES:
WHY DONT YOU THINK THAT UPS AND FEDEX DONT START THEIR OWN DELIVERY SERVICE?

Ans: BECAUSE IT WOULD NOT BE PROFITABLE!!!!!!!

Ok man, cool out. Its good that its not a monopoly, I knew it wasnt with certain types of mail but with first class mail it still held sole jurisdiction over delivery of such, but of course, it used to be a a full blown mess, and Spooner challenged that and helped as a catalyst to change the USPS. As for being profitable, well, FedEx and DHL are raking a decent profit transporting packages, i dont see why first class mail couldnt necessarily be deemed profitable? What makes it unprofitable to provide that extra service?

You need to relax man, i realize you work for the USPS and people simply degrading your profession is absurd, and i agree, and thank you for the work you do. But chill out with the caps lock key.

 

[sweetlou]

Sorry if i offended you with my caps lock key... im just passionate about the Postal Service. It is a Good Company. People always are quick to jump on the band wagon and always remember the 1 letter that was late but dont remember the 10,000 letters that were delivered on-time.

It is not profitable for fedex or UPS to deliver... They already assess a charge if you live outside of certain areas. Their is no way that they could turn a profit and compete with the 41 cents and make money. First class mail could be called the usps brand.. any other carrier can do the same.. Currently UPS and Fedex wont deliver to certain rural addresses if they did start doing so they would assess a huge surchage..

Thanks for listening to me and for your input...

 

[angrydragon]

USPS does get subsidies with tax money. It wouldn't hurt to see what prices would be with competition. First-class probably won't be profitable, but can be absorbed through other services carriers offer. The USPS also doesn't have to pay car registration fees and wouldn't get ticketed for temporarily parking in violation.

Wilton Alston wrote a couple of articles on this subject. The first one asked what would happen if the USPS had competition and the second responds to the emails he received about his first article.

http://www.lewrockwell.com/alston/alston21.html

http://www.lewrockwell.com/alston/alston23.html

 

[LFOD]

i dont think people understand that there IS NO MONOPOLY by the USPS... THAT IS A MYTH.... You CAN receive packages from many different companies including UPS, FEDEX, DHL ETC.... YOU COULD EVEN START YOUR OWN DELIVERY SERVICE IF YOU WANTED TO for Letters... BUT YOU JUST CANT USE MY MAILBOX... If you WANT TO START YOUR OWN POSTAL SERVICE COME UP WITH YOUR OWN MAIL RECEPTACLE... I DONT WANT some kid who gets paid minimum wage delivering my mail..


QUES:
WHY DONT YOU THINK THAT UPS AND FEDEX DONT START THEIR OWN DELIVERY SERVICE?

Ans: BECAUSE IT WOULD NOT BE PROFITABLE!!!!!!!

Everyone buys their own mailboxes, but only the USPS is allowed to put anything in them. Therefore, of course it is going to be unprofitable for anyone to compete for *mail* (not packages), because that company would have to buy mailboxes for everyone. The USPS doesn't have to buy mailboxes, so why should a private company have to, just to compete?

I don't have a problem with the USPS continuing to do what it does. But I would certainly appreciate competition, because we would probably get better service and prices.

 

[sweetlou]

Everyone buys their own mailboxes, but only the USPS is allowed to put anything in them. Therefore, of course it is going to be unprofitable for anyone to compete for *mail* (not packages), because that company would have to buy mailboxes for everyone. The USPS doesn't have to buy mailboxes, so why should a private company have to, just to compete?

I don't have a problem with the USPS continuing to do what it does. But I would certainly appreciate competition, because we would probably get better service and prices.

I dont see how you can say that you would get "better service" and "better prices"... we have the lLOWEST postage rates and BEST service of any country in the world... You dont seem to understand the big picture if you let private business into delivering first class mail how much is that "business" gonna charge you to send a letter from New York to Hawaii? are they gonna charge you based on distance? Are they gonna charge you more if you live in a rural area? The USPS delivers to EVERY ADDRESS 6 DAYS A WEEK... is a private company going to come pick up your mail for FREE?? It will be more expensive as you will see Business doing what it does... making a PROFIT... the postal service is required to break even every year...

we receive NO TAX subsidies... i dont want a kid making minimum wage delivering my mail and i dont want 6 different people coming to my mailbox everyday... NEITHER DOES AMERICA...

We deliver to every home and business in the United States. Every American has access to our services and pays the same postage regardless of where they live or work. We …

Process and deliver more than 213 billion pieces of mail — letters, cards, ads, bills, payments and packages — every year.
Nearly 703 million pieces per day
More than 29 million pieces per hour
More than 488,000 pieces per minute
More than 8,000 pieces per second
Deliver mail to more than 300 million people at 146 million homes, businesses and PO Boxes in every state, city and town, and in Puerto Rico, Guam, the American Virgin Islands and American Samoa.
Add 1.8 million new addresses each year to our delivery network — equivalent to the number of addresses in a city the size of Chicago.
Serve more than 9 million customers daily at nearly 37,000 Post Offices.
Have annual operating revenue of nearly $73 billion.
Are the second-largest employer in the United States.
Employ nearly 700,000 career employees.
Pay nearly $2 billion in employee salaries and benefits every two weeks.
Do not receive tax dollars for operations. We are a self-supporting agency, using the revenue from the sale of postage and products to pay expenses.
We handle more than 46 percent of the world's card and letter mail volume — delivering more mail to more addresses to a larger geographical area than any other post in the world.
We move mail using planes, trains, trucks, cars, boats, ferries, helicopters, bicycles, hovercrafts, subways and even mules.
We operate the largest civilian vehicle fleet in the world with more than 216,000 vehicles driving more than 1.2 billion miles each year and using nearly 121 million gallons of fuel.
When fuel costs increase one penny, our costs increase $8 million.
Each letter carrier delivers an average of nearly 2,900 pieces of mail a day to more than 500 addresses.
In 2006, we processed and delivered 25.9 billion pounds of mail — 85 million pounds per day.
About 14 percent of the nation’s population moves every year, generating more than 45 million address changes.
We add an average of 3,500 new deliveries every day.
We forward more than 2 billion pieces of mail a year.
Rural carriers drive 3.4 million miles daily to deliver to 37 million addresses.
We issue nearly 900,000 money orders per day.
Automated Postal Centers (APCs) are self-service kiosks that provide customers with access to the most frequently purchased postal products and services.
Customers can purchase stamps at:
More than 33,000 commercial retail outlets.
17,000 banking and credit union ATMs.
2,500 APCs.
Thousands of vending machines located nationwide.


Neither snow nor rain nor heat nor gloom of night stays these couriers from the swift completion of their appointed rounds.

 

[angrydragon]

Yes it does get subsidized. In 2005 alone it received $503 million dollars of our taxes.

http://www.usps.com/financials/_pdf/FY2006_September.pdf

 

[RP4ME]

Everything was right on until the last sentence. The way to overturn socialism (government monopolies) is not with fascism (government enforced private monopolies, i.e. privatization), the correct course is to legalize competition. The last thing that I want is to have Haliburton have an exclusive contract for delivering my mail. Just let everyone who wants deliver to mail boxes and the problem is solved.

--Dustan

yeah they might drop off a bomb.....

 

[sweetlou]

Yes it does get subsidized. In 2005 alone it received $503 million dollars of our taxes.

http://www.usps.com/financials/_pdf/FY2006_September.pdf

can you show me where in that document you are finding this information? The postal service has received NO tax dollars and your claim of $503 million in 2005 is bogus.

The USPS has not received tax dollars since 1971 when the post office dept became the US Postal Service

 

[sweetlou]

show me where??

 

[angrydragon]

Page 13

Statement of Cash Flows

Cash Flow from financing activities

Second column

 

[sweetlou]

I will inspect it.. First of all did you read the title? Cash FLOW? secondly that does not say anything about receiving taxes.. that could be anything... payments on bonds, Retirement which our employees paid into etc... could be repayment for a loan, interest, anything... they usps does not recieve tax dollars.

The government actually takes OUR SURPLUS and adds it into the federal budget.. The federal government has borrowed from our retirement fund in the past.


THE USPS DOES NOT RECEIVE TAX DOLLARS..

 

[angrydragon]

Appropriations are taxes. They come from taxes. Where else would it come from?