the thing is, there are people like me who are just now getting into the process. sure ive voted, but untill i heard about ron paul, saw all his youtube videos, all the debates, and how he stood on all the issues i coudlnt have told you want a deligate, precinct, or convention was. sad i know, but its the truth. it was ron paul that introduced me to the message so im a little hesitant to support all these groups that i have never heard of. im sure they support much of what ron paul does, but i dont know.
The March Must Be About The Message, Not The Man. *Please Read*
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Mckarnin
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How about having an online pledge that people sign when they agree to march that states that they will behave according to certain standards of decency and professionalism and legitimacy and that they will present themselves properly physically so that they do not reflect poorly on our movement.
*EDIT: BOTH--AND NOBODY IN THE WORLD WOULD EVER BE ABLE TO TELL THE DIFFERENCE.
The man. The message is of course more important than the man--BUT he is the brave statesman that has been fighting for us.
He is the only MAN that is about this message anymore.
We could have organized rallies for freedom, etc--but did we and were we doing so before Ron Paul stood up? No!
There is a time and a place for everything. And Ron Paul asked us for our support. If we purposely say: Message is #1 and Ron Paul is #2--then we are sending the message that he is NOT about freedom and the Constitution. But he is--and that is the reason we support him. You will muddy that and send the wrong message if you try to define it one way or the other. And there's no reason for it.
We want to send the message that we are for Ron Paul BECAUSE, AND ONLY BECAUSE, he is for freedom, rule of law, the Constitution, honest government, government of and for the people, and a non-interventionist foreign policy, etc., etc...
THIS IS A FALSE CHOICE. There is, and should not be, a number 1 and number 2. Bring Ron Paul signs, Constitution signs; have Ron Paul speeches, and Constitution speeches--but even better--have signs and speeches that speak of BOTH. Because it about freedom, and Ron Paul--Ron Paul, and freedom.
That is what this event is about. You should have stood up and took the initiative and had people rally around freedom or whatever--but Ron Paul did that, and he being brave and strong and fighting for the presidency--and RIGHT NOW we are having a rally for that, and for him (but we all know it is about 'the message' and about America). It's both, that's all I'm trying to say.
So stop.
The man. The message is of course more important than the man--BUT he is the brave statesman that has been fighting for us.
He is the only MAN that is about this message anymore.
We could have organized rallies for freedom, etc--but did we and were we doing so before Ron Paul stood up? No!
There is a time and a place for everything. And Ron Paul asked us for our support. If we purposely say: Message is #1 and Ron Paul is #2--then we are sending the message that he is NOT about freedom and the Constitution. But he is--and that is the reason we support him. You will muddy that and send the wrong message if you try to define it one way or the other. And there's no reason for it.
We want to send the message that we are for Ron Paul BECAUSE, AND ONLY BECAUSE, he is for freedom, rule of law, the Constitution, honest government, government of and for the people, and a non-interventionist foreign policy, etc., etc...
THIS IS A FALSE CHOICE. There is, and should not be, a number 1 and number 2. Bring Ron Paul signs, Constitution signs; have Ron Paul speeches, and Constitution speeches--but even better--have signs and speeches that speak of BOTH. Because it about freedom, and Ron Paul--Ron Paul, and freedom.
That is what this event is about. You should have stood up and took the initiative and had people rally around freedom or whatever--but Ron Paul did that, and he being brave and strong and fighting for the presidency--and RIGHT NOW we are having a rally for that, and for him (but we all know it is about 'the message' and about America). It's both, that's all I'm trying to say.
So stop.
But that assumes that there won't be people who show up at the march who are not Ron Paul supporters. I think this is inevitable, and not only that, I think people will show up who are enemies of Ron Paul's message and Ron Paul's presidential campaign who will purposely try to divide us by expressing controversial points of view that many people do not want associated with Ron Paul.
Thank you. So simple and true. Haven't you noticed that Ron Paul's whole campaign has shown that to just happen. The other campaigns talk only about Obama being charismatic and black, and McCain being a war hero, and on and on. We talk almost always only about the Constitution, Freedom, Free Markets, Sound Money, Bill of Rights, etc.--and oh yeah--that's why Ron Paul has our vote and support.
Have you not noticed that every event has tons of home made signs about freedom and Constitution and founders and taxes, etc. Only a few signs with just Ron Paul's name on them??
Have you not noticed that Ron Paul goes on and on about these things--and bases everything he says and does on them??
Stop trying to figure out if it should be one or the other. It is both. (OF COURSE THE MESSAGE IS MORE IMPORTANT! But if you insist on making sure that everyone knows it's Message #1, Ron Paul 2, then you should have organized an event about the message on your own. Did you? NO! Did you think of organizing an event about freedom and taxes before Ron Paul? Did you actually do anything about it? NO!)
BOTH.
I never advocated not bringing Ron Paul signs or giving Ron Paul speeches, or not associating the two. Quite the contrary, I think everyone here should come out and make it clear that they are there because they support Ron Paul for president because he is the person in the race who is the champion of the message that unites us all . I'm saying it should be the march for freedom, led by Ron Paul, as opposed to simply the march for Ron Paul. I think this will keep us united and show that we support Ron Paul not because of a cult of personality, but because we share his values and beliefs. Is that a more agreeable way to put it?
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Mckarnin
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There may be "infiltrators"..in particular I could see people infiltrating to try and instigate fighting or aggressive action towards the police to get people arrested (I actually think I have heard of this happening at other RP events) BUT I think there are also plenty of Ron Paul supporters who are not accustomed to behaving as civilly as they should when representing Ron Paul. If we had, say 50,000 courtesy pledged people attend at most there would probably be a few hundred infiltrators. If 50,000 are behaving well and perhaps even wearing a special mark/item of clothing that shows them to be people who actually signed up through the proper channels I think it will really deflate anyone who wants to hurt us by being disruptive.
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Signing a pledge to adhere to somebodies standard of decency doesn't really fly with me. As far as the focus of the march goes, If it is about freedom, lots of people will want to be involved, and you know if it is about freedom, Ron Paul will naturally become the focus. We don't need to tell certain groups they aren't invited because the don't endorse RP. We need to invite everyone, and then once they are there show them that everyone would be best represented by RP.
...and yes, there will be agent provocateurs. Nothing we do or say will ever prevent that fact. Im sure the major organizers of this event will also find themselves being profiled and watched in the weeks leading to and after the rally. Nothing we can do about that. All we can do is make sure we don't fall into their traps. Check out 'Martial Law 9/11' to get a get yourself prepared for what it will be like. Yes it is a Alex Jones movie, but as someone who isn't a fan of his but was at the RNC I can say safely he gave an accurate portrayal of the way 'the man' looks at and handles these things in this day and age.
The distinction is this: The March For Freedom, Liberty and The Constitution, Led By Ron Paul versus The March For Ron Paul.
There will inevitably be those who show up and express controversial points of view. Some of these people will be Ron Paul supporters, some will not.
If it is The March For Ron Paul, there will inevitably be some Ron Paul supporters who, because they think having such ideas associated with Ron Paul is damaging to his campaign, will want to silence those who express them. This will breed a hypocritical collectivist mentality that is contrary to what Ron Paul stands for.
If it is The March For Freedom, Liberty and The Constitution, Led By Ron Paul, we will not be prone to such division and collectivism. Though most of the people there will be loudly supporting Ron Paul (as they should), there will not be a need for one group of people to silence another for exercising their first amendment rights.
Also, as I said above, it would show the world that unlike many supporters of other candidates, we support Ron Paul not because of a cult of personality, but because we share his values and beliefs. It would also demonstrate that we walk the walk of freedom; we don't just talk the talk.
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Mckarnin
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I know it would be tricky. I guess I think that people with diverse opinions can agree to adhere to uniforms standards of decency...no swearing, throwing objects, masks...?
I think you're absolutely right. About the Title. You made excellent points and I agree with them. I was really worried at first that people were trying to make it ABOUT the message FIRST, then about Ron Paul second. And there is no need to do that--they are one and the same for all intents and purposes--and it would (very needlessly) detract from Ron Paul.
But I agree absolutely that calling it the Ron Paul March, or Ron Paul Rally isn't right. But "Led by Ron Paul" sounds perfect and awesome.
Thank you. I understand now how the title and the original post could be misleading, and I've actually gone back and revised the original post to better represent what I am trying to say. I wish I could revise the title, but I can't.
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