The LP Sold Out: Nominates Anti-Freedom Drug Warrior Bob Barr!

[revolutionary8]

What about porn? Gambling? and equal rights for non-heterosexuals?
Sounds like a religious right to me.

torchbearer,
porn, gambling and gays aren't my main "issues".
I can't say the same for Barr.
He has consistently earned 100% ratings from the Council of Conservative Citizens.

 

[torchbearer]

torchbearer,
porn, gambling and gays aren't my main "issues".
I can't say the same for Barr.
He has consistently earned 100% ratings from the Council of Conservative Citizens.

Barr is surrounded by long time libertarians, one of them being Steve Dasbach.
Barr has announce a libertarian platform going forward.
I know Steve, he's a pure libertarian. If people like him are continued to be brought on board, and Barr is surrounding himself with pure libertarians, and mentioned in is speech that he would include people like Mary Ruwart on his administration staff...
That tells you his direction going forward.

 

[libertythor]

People ought to remember that Bob Barr joined the LP 2 years ago. This isn't something he did at the spur of the moment.

It doesn't erase his voting record, but lets focus in on his platform. I just hope that his running mate pinche WAR stays in the background.

 

[CorkyAgain]

Many of us have spent the last several months becoming REPUBLICAN delegates. You cannot be a delegate to two party's conventions at once. We were hoping those who stayed in the LP would give us a place to goto after Pauls chances expired. They fucked it up. I'll bitch all I want.

The LP Picked a republican, the republicans picked a neocon, the democrats picked a socialist, and the CP picked a theocrat.


I going to bitch from my armchair for the next 4 years.

These events have finally convinced me that Konkin (and more recently, Brad Spangler) was right: partyarchy is the wrong strategy for libertarianism.

http://agorism.info/NewLibertarianManifesto.pdf
http://www.bradspangler.com/blog/archives/967

It seems that any attempt to organize a political (i.e., electoral) solution will be infiltrated and co-opted if it cannot be marginalized. But Konkin's point is deeper: the very attempt to use electoral, majoritarian tools to preserve or advance liberty is a concession to statism that infects the entire project and dooms it to failure.

Nonpolitical action along the lines suggested by agorism seems to be the only viable approach.

 

[torchbearer]

These events have finally convinced me that Konkin (and more recently, Brad Spangler) was right: partyarchy is the wrong strategy for libertarianism.

http://agorism.info/NewLibertarianManifesto.pdf
http://www.bradspangler.com/blog/archives/967

It seems that any attempt to organize a political (i.e., electoral) solution will be infiltrated and co-opted if it cannot be marginalized. But Konkin's point is deeper: the very attempt to use electoral, majoritarian tools to preserve or advance liberty is a concession to statism that infects the entire project and dooms it to failure.

Nonpolitical action along the lines suggested by agorism seems to be the only viable approach.

I refer you to this video: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6015291679758430958

Your actions are what matter. Why haven't you gotten more involved?
Want a better choice? Have you thought about running yourself?
You seem to have everything figured out. Get our liberties back for us.

 

[CorkyAgain]

Your actions are what matter. Why haven't you gotten more involved?

The point of my post is that I no longer believe political involvement is the most effective way to advance liberty. In fact, I now agree with Konkin and Spangler that it's counter-productive.

I agree, my actions are what matters. But there are others venues for action besides the political. Politics consumes energy that is better spent elsewhere.

So I am getting more involved. I'm disengaging from the futile quest to transform Leviathan into some kind of libertarian entity and redirecting my attention to things that seem more likely to succeed.

 

[CorkyAgain]

One other thing:

Get our liberties back for us.

That's precisely what's wrong with the political approach. Asking someone else to get your liberties back for you, or requiring some action from them, is making you dependent on that other person -- when the very idea of liberty presupposes that you are independent and responsible for yourself.

If you want to be free, be free. Don't wait for the state or anyone else to give you permission!

What's more, don't wait for some idyllic utopian world to arrive in which there won't be anyone threatening you, or trying to take unfair advantage of you, or saying you can't/shouldn't do what your conscience and reason tells you is the right thing to do. People like that will always be with us. It's time to grow up and learn to make your way in the world as it is.

Even if the worst happens, and a crushing tyranny is imposed upon us, you can still be free. Read Epictetus's little manual The Enchiridionfor the why's and how's.

That's all I'm going to say for now, unless someone wants to discuss it further. I know that these forums are mostly for people who still buy into the political project, and I'm prepared to leave you to it.

 

[torchbearer]

One other thing:



That's precisely what's wrong with the political approach. Asking someone else to get your liberties back for you, or requiring some action from them, is making you dependent on that other person -- when the very idea of liberty presupposes that you are independent and responsible for yourself.

If you want to be free, be free. Don't wait for the state or anyone else to give you permission!

What's more, don't wait for some idyllic utopian world to arrive in which there won't be anyone threatening you, or trying to take unfair advantage of you, or saying you can't/shouldn't do what your conscience and reason tells you is the right thing to do. People like that will always be with us. It's time to grow up and learn to make your way in the world as it is.

Even if the worst happens, and a crushing tyranny is imposed upon us, you can still be free. Read Epictetus's little manual The Enchiridionfor the why's and how's.

That's all I'm going to say for now, unless someone wants to discuss it further. I know that these forums are mostly for people who still buy into the political project, and I'm prepared to leave you to it.

Sorry the sarcasm was missed. I was asking you for shit, I was mocking your arrogance.

 

[torchbearer]

I liked you better when you were pretending to have all the answers.

 

[LibertyEagle]

They both endorsed Ron Paul, that must mean we should vote for them right?
That was his logic for supporting Baldwin.
Any connection you've made was not my intent.

Exactly when did Barr endorse Paul? I saw him introduce him not long ago at a speech, but if that's what you call an endorsement, it was WAY too late to do any good.

 

[familydog]

Barr is surrounded by long time libertarians, one of them being Steve Dasbach.
Barr has announce a libertarian platform going forward.
I know Steve, he's a pure libertarian. If people like him are continued to be brought on board, and Barr is surrounding himself with pure libertarians, and mentioned in is speech that he would include people like Mary Ruwart on his administration staff...
That tells you his direction going forward.

That's a good sign. Seriously. If Barr can be persuaded to vote against his instincts as easily as it seems, then at least he can be persuaded in the right direction with those people.

 

[WRellim]

People ought to remember that Bob Barr joined the LP 2 years ago. This isn't something he did at the spur of the moment.

It doesn't erase his voting record, but lets focus in on his platform. I just hope that his running mate pinche WAR stays in the background.

Well, late December 2006, while technically 2 years in year-digits ago, was NOT in fact two years ago. Counting back from today, Barr joined the LP party 1 year 5 months, + misc days ago... that only round up to "2 years" in the land of people who flunked math.

You sound like the old couple I know who SWEAR that they were married a WHOLE YEAR before they had their first child... yeah right, they got hitched in December and had the kid in January... shortest pregnancy on record (quick call Guinness!).



The fact that he had a PLAN in mind with Viguerie, et al to capture the LP banner that was worked out over the course of a year doesn't make it any better. (Amy more than does the "maneuvering" done with WAR, etc. -- in fact it shows a LACK of ethics and an attempt to game the system to his personal advantage... something we need LESS of, not more of!)


And while we are NOT focusing on his record (and presumably also NOT focusing on his character, are NOT focusing on his ACTIONS, LONG-STANDING opinions and attitudes about Government...) no let's instead focus on what color the SPOTS are on the leopard's TIE today.

Jeepers, haven't you people learned ANYTHING about politicians yet? They will say whatever is necessary to GAIN THE LIMELIGHT -- even in the Libertarian and other venues -- they don't actually MEAN any of the stuff they say!

 

[revolutionary8]

Well, late December 2006, while technically 2 years in year-digits ago, was NOT in fact two years ago. Counting back from today, Barr joined the LP party 1 year 5 months, + misc days ago... that only round up to "2 years" in the land of people who flunked math.

You sound like the old couple I know who SWEAR that they were married a WHOLE YEAR before they had their first child... yeah right, they got hitched in December and had the kid in January... shortest pregnancy on record (quick call Guinness!).



And the fact that he had a PLAN in mind with Viguerie, et al to capture the LP banner that was worked out over the course of a year doesn't make it any better. (Amy more than does the "maneuvering" done with WAR, etc. -- in fact it shows a LACK of ethics and an attempt to game the system to his personal advantage... something we need LESS of, not more of!)

Did you say the "V" name? I had sworn him off for eternity.

 

[WRellim]

Did you say the "V" name? I had sworn him off for eternity.

Who the heck do you THINK is underwriting the whole Barr campaign?

Did you not SEE who the "keynote" speaker was at the LP Convention this year?

The whole thing was a SIDESHOW bought and paid for by Viguerie.

 

[0zzy]

Who the heck do you THINK is underwriting the whole Barr campaign?

Did you not SEE who the "keynote" speaker was at the LP Convention this year?

The whole thing was a SIDESHOW bought and paid for by Viguerie.

...I love conspiracies, yes I do! I love conspiracies, how bout you!

WEEEEE.

 

[WRellim]

...I love conspiracies, yes I do! I love conspiracies, how bout you!

WEEEEE.

Is Richard Viguerie Trying to Buy the Libertarian Party?
by David F. Nolan (founder of LP in 1971)
http://fairuse.100webcustomers.com/eg/nolan-vig.html


Libertarian National Convention
Unlike the conventions of Republicans and Democrats, the Libertarian National Convention is not a "coronation ceremony" (...)
Keynote speakers to include
Richard A. Viguerie - Bio
http://www.lpconvention.org/event_details.php


So they've been "breathing the same air" and working at this -- at least David Nolan thinks so...

KMA.

 

[0zzy]

Is Richard Viguerie Trying to Buy the Libertarian Party?
by David F. Nolan (founder of LP in 1971)
http://fairuse.100webcustomers.com/eg/nolan-vig.html


Libertarian National Convention
Unlike the conventions of Republicans and Democrats, the Libertarian National Convention is not a "coronation ceremony" (...)
Keynote speakers to include
Richard A. Viguerie - Bio
http://www.lpconvention.org/event_details.php


So they've been "breathing the same air" and working at this -- at least David Nolan thinks so...

KMA.

Richard Viguerie is trying to destroy the LP party? Does he respect Bush and think neoconservatives are awesome too? From the speech I saw all he said was how conservatives aren't being small government peaceniks anymore. But whateverrrr. there is probably more I cant read into.

 

[revolutionary8]

Richard Viguerie is trying to destroy the LP party? Does he respect Bush and think neoconservatives are awesome too? From the speech I saw all he said was how conservatives aren't being small government peaceniks anymore. But whateverrrr. there is probably more I cant read into.

Lord help everyone if I get started on "V" again.
I apologize in advance.

 

[JosephTheLibertarian]

The LP sold out?

The GOP hasn't sold out? I guess that's why you're still a member of the GOP. GOP members aren't entitled to criticize the LP imo

 

[revolutionary8]

The LP sold out?

The GOP hasn't sold out? I guess that's why you're still a member of the GOP. GOP members aren't entitled to criticize the LP imo

..