The Libertarian Case for Palin

[tron paul]

Pro Life Movement

Like I said, the pro life movement was betrayed by their own leaders. They compromised for the sake of power and found themselves cast aside

Here are two leaders of the Pro-Life movement that are not compromised and gaining power:

1. Ron Paul

2. Sarah Palin

 

[acptulsa]

You're really having fun with redefinition and name association. Wake me up when you care to add some substance.

 

[LibertyEagle]

Here are two leaders of the Pro-Life movement that are not compromised and gaining power:

1. Ron Paul

2. Sarah Palin

Palin looked pretty compromised to me, during the presidential campaign.

Yup, sure did.

 

[LibertyEagle]

The haters are scared to death for a very good reason: Palin is the winnowing fork of the Culture Wars, separating the useful wheat from the useless chaff.

They know, and seethe with resentment that their time of deception has ended.

You can see that on RPF invoking her name provokes the secular liberals into identifying themselves, often demonstrating their relative merit and usefulness in the process.

Even on Free Republic, land of the Neocon Warmonger, The Palin Issue is sweeping the big-government RINOs into the dustbin of history.

The Rudy Guiliani and Mitt Romney people constantly try to slither back into the SoCon Freeper community, only to break their teeth biting Palin's ankles.

I dare you to call me a liberal, Tron. I dare you.

You're not going to win many friends or influence people with this kind of BS.

 

[acptulsa]

The funny thing is, we've gone on for pages over this, and around here (the reddest of the red states) these days Palin draws five words from these millions of 'fawning admirers':

"Too bad she's a quitter."

 

[moostraks]

MAT 7:6 Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you

MAT 7:16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
7:17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
7:18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
7:19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
"Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire."
Those who fail to bear "good fruit" will be "hewn down, and cast into the fire."
7:20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them

Palin needs to bring forth a new fruit. Everyone can gain wisdom so the door is not shut. It, however, appears to many of us she has sold her soul for fame...

 

[georgiaboy]

The funny thing is, we've gone on for pages over this, and around here (the reddest of the red states) these days Palin draws five words from these millions of 'fawning admirers':

"Too bad she's a quitter."

Among conservatives, that hurdle is a very high, if not an impossible, hurdle to overcome.

 

[jmdrake]

Sorry, but that's not going to fly around here.

Ron Paul is NOT a social conservative! Ron Paul stands with the Constitution and regardless of his own personal opinions, he will not use government to force said opinions on everyone else. "Social Conservatives" on the other hand, seem to be solely about their agenda and could care less about the Constitution. They will use big government force anyway they can to force their agenda and then cry about that same big government being used in the same way, but on different agendas, when their big government brethren on the other side of the aisle come to power.

In other words... BITE YOUR TONGUE!

So I guess all of those "Ron Paul is a conservative" slim jims we bought from the campaign website and passed out were all false advertising? That brings up a funny story. On New Years Eve 2007 we marched through downtown Nashville carrying signs and passing out slim jims including the "Ron Paul's conservative values" one. This was our 3rd biggest event (about 200 people) right behind the Ron Paul rally (over 1,000) and Ran Paul coming to our campaign HQ (about 500). Anyway someone gave a slim jim to a goth who was at first shouting "Go Ron Paul". When she read the slim jim she was aghast and started saying "Ron Paul's not a conservative! He's a libertarian."

The fact of the matter is Ron Paul is a constitutionalist. He's not for violating states right in order to push some conservative agenda. But that doesn't mean he takes the position of (some) libertarians that the government can't enforce some conservative positions. Take gay marriage. While he's against a gay marriage amendment, he defended the "defense of marriage act" and went on to introduce a bill that would take the matter away from the federal courts. But he went on to say that he if he was in the state legislature he'd introduce a similar bill to take the matter away from the state courts as well. The message is clear. If the people want gay marriage they can vote for it. If they want to ban gay marriage they can vote for that too.

http://www.lewrockwell.com/paul/paul207.html

He also voted for the partial birth abortion ban even though he felt it was constitutionally flawed.

http://www.lewrockwell.com/paul/paul98.html

He's abortion position is similar to his gay marriage position. Reinstate federalism into the equation by overturning Roe v. Wade through an amendment and let the individual states decide.

http://www.lewrockwell.com/paul/paul100.html

He's opposed to the federal government deciding issues like this, but the state government is still government. I definitely ran into people that didn't support Paul because the mistakenly believed he was not pro life or that he supported gay marriage. I had to explain to them that he would leave it up to the states where they had a MUCH better chance of prevailing.

Regards,

John M. Drake

 

[jmdrake]

Here are two leaders of the Pro-Life movement that are not compromised and gaining power:

1. Ron Paul

2. Sarah Palin

Palin compromised her free market credentials by supporting the bailout. (Unless she was never truly free market). Huckabee is gaining more power than she is. Why aren't you pushing him instead?

 

[tron paul]

that's a big 'if'

Oh really?

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/pub..._at_the_top_and_bottom_for_gop_voters_in_2012
Seventy-six percent (76%) of Republican voters have a favorable opinion of Palin, even after her decision to resign as governor of Alaska, with 45% whose view of her is very favorable. Palin trails Huckabee, who unsuccessfully sought the Republican presidential nomination in 2008. Huckabee is favored by 78%, with 41% who feel very favorably toward him.

If you're going strictly by the polls you should be pushing Huckabee over Palin. Then again if your going strictly by the polls you should just support John McCain and be done with it.

I wasn't going by polls. Look at the social metrics: Palin dominates Facebook, Team Sarah.org has set up their own free version of MeetUp.com with 80,000 members. Plus Twitter.

Look at the earned media: Palin can't get a pedicure without 50 media sharks reporting on the story. She is a Rock Star and sells magazines. Huck, not so much. He could lose a toe while fishing and the local paper wouldn't bat an eye, much less interrupt their Michael Jackson coverage.

Palin is the candidate that Huck's Army wanted, one they could join with the Ronulans to support in the General Election.

45% very favorable is nothing to sneeze at, considering the media hatchet job on her. Such polling is beyond McCain's wildest fantasy, despite sycophantic media.

 

[LibertyEagle]

So I guess all of those "Ron Paul is a conservative" slim jims we bought from the campaign website and passed out were all false advertising?

No, not at all. There is a big difference between a traditional conservative, which Ron is, and a "social conservative".

Since the conservative label has been so co-opted, many traditional conservatives now refer to themselves as constitutionalists. I do too.

The fact of the matter is Ron Paul is a constitutionalist. He's not for violating states right in order to push some conservative agenda.

Isn't that just what I said in my previous post? But, you're wrong about conservatism. Traditional conservatives were very much, constitutionalists.

 

[RevolutionSD]

Palin compromised her free market credentials by supporting the bailout. (Unless she was never truly free market). Huckabee is gaining more power than she is. Why aren't you pushing him instead?

Even worse, she supports the war as much as Mccain.

She's certainly no libertarian, and is just another statist.

 

[acptulsa]

Look, t p. If you think she can be sufficiently educated to become an asset to this movement, get cracking. Until then, you're just makin' spam.

 

[jmdrake]

No, not at all. There is a big difference between a traditional conservative, which Ron is, and a "social conservative".

Since the conservative label has been so co-opted, many traditional conservatives now refer to themselves as constitutionalists. I do too.


Isn't that just what I said in my previous post? But, you're wrong about conservatism. Traditional conservatives were very much, constitutionalists.

Maybe we're disagreeing about labels. To me social conservatives are those who are concerned with social issues (abortion, gay marriage, etc) as opposed to fiscal conservatives who only care about smaller government and lower taxes. I guess my point is that local government banning a practice such as abortion is still "government force". There are a lot of people on the boards these days that take the position of no government involvement in social issues even at the state and local level. (Then again there are those pushing for no government at all.)

 

[LibertyEagle]

Maybe we're disagreeing about labels. To me social conservatives are those who are concerned with social issues (abortion, gay marriage, etc) as opposed to fiscal conservatives who only care about smaller government and lower taxes. I guess my point is that local government banning a practice such as abortion is still "government force". There are a lot of people on the boards these days that take the position of no government involvement in social issues even at the state and local level. (Then again there are those pushing for no government at all.)

I think it's a label thing, John.

Most of my life, there was only one kind of conservative. I got disinterested in politics for awhile, when I was spending most of my time on my career, and when I looked back, I saw all these different kinds of hyphenated conservatives. I was like, what the HECK? It took me awhile to figure it out.

I still think there is only one kind. The rest are fakers who were trying to piggyback off of the, then, popular label. Well now it's been co-opted, so it's not so popular anymore.

 

[tron paul]

Palin's Bailout Gaffe

I see you won't address the fact that Palin supported the bailout.

Getting national exposure was worth flubbing a few talking points.

Palin's job as VP was to support McCain. It doesn't seem like her heart is in it when it comes to the bailout. She doesn't sound like a genuine centrist, and that's a good thing.

This shows how badly the Palinites need to hear about Austrian economics.

They're hungry for knowledge, and we've been busy in the kitchen.

Instead of writing them off as irredeemable, let's feed them healthy ideas, so in the future they'll be on our side.

We need converts, not more choir practice.

 

[tron paul]

You didn't. You're talking about reaching out to her supporters, of which I approve wholeheartedly. I've undoubtedly done it myself, though I generally knew them as Huckabee supporters.

tron made that claim. And I don't buy it. Seems like he wants to use her as a wedge. Whatever. I just spread the message--and avoid supporting status quo candidates in the process.

My actions are irrelevant; Palin is already a wedge.

How we use this already existing wedge to continue the rEVOLution is the issue.

Huck's Army has been absorbed by Team Sarah. They looked up to us, we teased them like a little brother. But when brothers grow up, they (should) stop bickering.

 

[acptulsa]

Huck's Army has been absorbed by Team Sarah. They looked up to us, we teased them like a little brother. But when brothers grow up, they (should) stop bickering.

Team Sarah ended when she quit; the 'army' is rudderless--or sticking with the Huckster.

And it wasn't my experience that they looked up to us--at least not until we engaged them and gave them reason to respect us. Nor did we tease them in any way that I can think of...

 

[jmdrake]

Getting national exposure was worth flubbing a few talking points.

Flubbing a talking point is saying "I can see Russia from my house" instead of "How much foreign policy experience does Barack Obama have? At least our foreign policy expert is at the top of our ticket." Defending the bailout is like Pat Robertson defending forced abortion in China. It's a watershed moment.

Palin's job as VP was to support McCain. It doesn't seem like her heart is in it when it comes to the bailout. She doesn't sound like a genuine centrist, and that's a good thing.

Fine. Then she can let us know what's in her "heart". Confession is good for the soul.

This shows how badly the Palinites need to hear about Austrian economics.

So do the Obamanots. So do the Huckbees. So do the McCainanites. We don't have to embrace every other candidate on the planet just to talk with their people.

They're hungry for knowledge, and we've been busy in the kitchen.

Well get out their and go feeding. Just don't try to convince the rest of us we have to wear an "I love Palin" apron first.

Instead of writing them off as irredeemable, let's feed them healthy ideas, so in the future they'll be on our side.

We need converts, not more choir practice.

I'm not writing off ANYBODY as irredeemable. Like I said I reached my black muslim barber. But you don't see me on year singing the praises of Louis Farrakhan.

Regards,

John M. Drake

 

[jmdrake]

I wasn't going by polls. Look at the social metrics: Palin dominates Facebook, Team Sarah.org has set up their own free version of MeetUp.com with 80,000 members. Plus Twitter.

If we were just going by social metrics Ron Paul would be president already.

Look at the earned media: Palin can't get a pedicure without 50 media sharks reporting on the story. She is a Rock Star and sells magazines. Huck, not so much. He could lose a toe while fishing and the local paper wouldn't bat an eye, much less interrupt their Michael Jackson coverage.

Of course. That's because A) she's more photogenic and B) the media loves controversy. Being photogenic and controversial does not make you king of the conservative hill.

Palin is the candidate that Huck's Army wanted, one they could join with the Ronulans to support in the General Election.

45% very favorable is nothing to sneeze at, considering the media hatchet job on her. Such polling is beyond McCain's wildest fantasy, despite sycophantic media.

I thought you weren't looking at the polls? Are you only looking at the numbers that help your side? Palin's unfavorable rating is higher than the Huckster's.

Here's the bottom line. Reaching out to Palin supporters is a good thing. Reaching out to Palin supporters by claiming she has "Ron Paul cred" when there's no evidence of that will hurt Ron Paul's cred! There's a reason Paul dismissed her as a "country club republican". While I would have been a bit more tactful, I wouldn't have gone to the other extreme that you seem to have taken.