The Libertarian Case for Palin

[jmdrake]

Are you capable of having a debate without implying that I'm stupid and using vulgar terms like ^ in your argument??

Are you capable of understanding that everybody can have a stupid idea?

I'll put it another way. Going against 90% of Americans is just not very politically astute hows that?

 

[acptulsa]

And that my dear friend, is where we come in. Our positive influence over her supporters can change everything.

Never before has there been so much talk about the Constitution in the media or otherwise, since Dr. Paul became so well known. His message has permeated in ways that we will never fully know. It's time to take that message to everyone that can be easily converted.

Verse 57 of The Book of Thomas:

Jesus said, "The Kingdom of the Father is like a man who had [good] seed. His enemy came by night and sowed weeds among the good seed. The man did not allow them to pull up the weeds; he said to them, 'I am afraid that you will go intending to pull up the weeds and pull up the wheat along with them.' For on the day of the harvest the weeds will be plainly visible, and they will be pulled up and burned."

The difficult we do immediately; the impossible takes a little longer...

As for proving that Sarah Palin is 'Ron Paul in a dress', well, that could take years.

 

[Deborah K]

There's nothing wrong with trying to influence Palin supporters. But then again there's nothing wrong with trying to influence Obama supporters, McCain supporters, Bush supporters, Jesse Jackson supporters or anybody you can reach. Most all of these people of these supporters were against the bailout even though the politicians they supported were not. (Don't know about Jesse Jackson but you get the point).

Except that I've little to no success convincing Obamabots of anything. Most of his supporters that I know don't have any knowledge of history. One even said to me, "Oh the Constitution needs to be thrown out. It was written so long ago, it doesn't even matter anymore. And besides, a bunch of slave owners wrote it."

I don't get that kind of crap from Palin supporters. They are more inclined to be receptive to Ron Paul's vids and writings.

 

[Deborah K]

Verse 57 of The Book of Thomas:

Jesus said, "The Kingdom of the Father is like a man who had [good] seed. His enemy came by night and sowed weeds among the good seed. The man did not allow them to pull up the weeds; he said to them, 'I am afraid that you will go intending to pull up the weeds and pull up the wheat along with them.' For on the day of the harvest the weeds will be plainly visible, and they will be pulled up and burned."

The difficult we do immediately; the impossible takes a little longer...

As for proving that Sarah Palin is 'Ron Paul in a dress', well, that could take years.

I really love the book of Thomas.

 

[acptulsa]

Except that I've little to no success convincing Obamabots of anything. Most of his supporters that I know don't have any knowledge of history. One even said to me, "Oh the Constitution needs to be thrown out. It was written so long ago, it doesn't even matter anymore. And besides, a bunch of slave owner wrote it."

I don't get that kind of crap of Palin supporters. They are more inclined to be receptive to Ron Paul's vids and writings.

I find the opposite down here, by and large. I expect the not-so-bright crowd goes with the bunch they find most populous in their area...

 

[jmdrake]

Originally Posted by tonesforjonesbones View Post
Sarah Palin was the darling of this forum during the primaries. Did ya'll get brainwashed by the socialist Huffington Post and the idiots on Saturday Night Live? I think so, and some of you just follow the little clique on this board. Pitiful. Sarah Palin supported Pat Buchanan when he ran for president and she was involved with the Alaskan Independent Party which is an affiliate of the Constitution Party. I guess it's because ya'll are really young that you think you have to follow the unspoken leaders on this board rather than look at things objectively and most of you are still in high school and can't vote. Tones

I've named that little clique the Can't Get Along Gang, because they'd rather resent Social Conservatives (like Ron Paul) than get along with (and influence) Palin's mass movement.

Another way to explain the situation is with Palin Derangement Syndrome. They need a new BushHitlerCheney to complete them, so they can feel all Batman superhero when opposing the Manchurian Palin's supervillainess machinations.


McCain picked Palin because she had the most "Ron Paul Cred" not because she's Huckabee in a dress. McCain wasn't worried about Hucksters voting for Obama, but knew the rEVOLution was a force he desperately needed on his side.

I've had it with the "Sarah is a Neocon" canard. I'll going to write something debunking that nonsense issue-by-issue.

I'm not sure what part of the forum "tones" was reading but Palin was never the "darling". Most people were debating whether to support to support Bob Barr or Chuck Baldwin by that point.

Ron Paul cred? Don't make me laugh! She supported the war and the BAILOUT! Really Mike Huckabee has more Ron Paul cred than Sarah Palin and he's more popular among conservatives. Mike Huckabee didn't get on national TV and claim the bailout was part of tax cuts and job creation! I don't like Huckabee, but strategically backing him makes more sense than backing Palin.

 

[Deborah K]

Are you capable of understanding that everybody can have a stupid idea?

I'll put it another way. Going against 90% of Americans is just not very politically astute hows that?

We are not ever going to be on the same page it seems. So be it.

 

[Deborah K]

As for proving that Sarah Palin is 'Ron Paul in a dress', well, that could take years.

She's not Ron Paul! No one is. Never made that claim. But I think she's capable of evolving into a Constitutionalist. She will have regrets of course, but don't we all? Have we become so puritanical that we can no longer tolerate people with misguided principles having a change of heart?

 

[jmdrake]

Except that I've little to no success convincing Obamabots of anything. Most of his supporters that I know don't have any knowledge of history. One even said to me, "Oh the Constitution needs to be thrown out. It was written so long ago, it doesn't even matter anymore. And besides, a bunch of slave owners wrote it."

I don't get that kind of crap from Palin supporters. They are more inclined to be receptive to Ron Paul's vids and writings.

I'm with acptulsa on that. I've had far more success with Obama supporters. My black muslim barber watched The Obama Deception and was totally sold on it. He already had respect for Ron Paul even though he ended up voting for Obama. I saw one of my city's black democratic councilmen at large when we had a recent Ron Paul meetup at a local restaurant. He told me "I do like your man because he stands on principle". He agreed to meet with our group to discuss how we could help him defeat a big government spending project. (That's all I can say about that so I don't derail this.) I don't mind working with people that I don't agree with. But I'm not going to pretend Palin has "Ron Paul cred" (not your words I know) when she supported the bailout. Sorry. That's my #1 top issue right now. These bailouts represent the single biggest threat to our nation. The Bush bailout grease the skids for the Obama socialist agenda. It's much bigger than the "birther" issue to me. It's not something I can compromise on. If you can then fine for you.

 

[Deborah K]

I find the opposite down here, by and large. I expect the not-so-bright crowd goes with the bunch they find most populous in their area...

Interesting take. So.....how best to capitalize on it....

 

[tron paul]

Palin, the winnowing fork, has come to JUDGE!!!

Reagan and the others did not experience the vitriol and villification that this woman experiences day after day, month after month. Their families were not mercilessly and relentlessly attacked.

I know she's the favorite whipping post on this forum. I don't really understand why. She deserves critcism for some of her stances, yes, but calling her the horrible names she's been called is reprehensible and it is disappointing to see the cyber- assassination of her that takes place on here.

It's one thing to disagree with someone, but to do what has been done to her gives me great pause as a woman, wife, mother, and political activist. Never before have I seen such an attack on someone, let alone a woman. Even Doc Paul didn't get this kind of treatment.

The haters are scared to death for a very good reason: Palin is the winnowing fork of the Culture Wars, separating the useful wheat from the useless chaff.

They know, and seethe with resentment that their time of deception has ended.

You can see that on RPF invoking her name provokes the secular liberals into identifying themselves, often demonstrating their relative merit and usefulness in the process.

Even on Free Republic, land of the Neocon Warmonger, The Palin Issue is sweeping the big-government RINOs into the dustbin of history.

The Rudy Guiliani and Mitt Romney people constantly try to slither back into the SoCon Freeper community, only to break their teeth biting Palin's ankles.

 

[acptulsa]

Never made that claim.

You didn't. You're talking about reaching out to her supporters, of which I approve wholeheartedly. I've undoubtedly done it myself, though I generally knew them as Huckabee supporters.

tron made that claim. And I don't buy it. Seems like he wants to use her as a wedge. Whatever. I just spread the message--and avoid supporting status quo candidates in the process.

 

[jmdrake]

The haters are scared to death for a very good reason: Palin is the winnowing fork of the Culture Wars, separating the useful wheat from the useless chaff.

They know, and seethe with resentment that their time of deception has ended.

You can see that on RPF invoking her name provokes the secular liberals into identifying themselves, often demonstrating their relative merit and usefulness in the process.

Even on Free Republic, land of the Neocon Warmonger, The Palin Issue is sweeping the big-government RINOs into the dustbin of history.

The Rudy Guiliani and Mitt Romney people constantly try to slither back into the SoCon Freeper community, only to break their teeth biting Palin's ankles.

LOL. Man you're delusional. I see you won't address the fact that Huckabee is more popular among conservatives than Palin. I see you won't address the fact that Palin supported the bailout. Something is being "revealed" alright.

 

[Deborah K]

The haters are scared to death for a very good reason: Palin is the winnowing fork of the Culture Wars, separating the useful wheat from the useless chaff.

They know, and seethe with resentment that their time of deception has ended.

You can see that on RPF invoking her name provokes the secular liberals into identifying themselves, often demonstrating their relative merit and usefulness in the process.

Even on Free Republic, land of the Neocon Warmonger, The Palin Issue is sweeping the big-government RINOs into the dustbin of history.

The Rudy Guiliani and Mitt Romney people constantly try to slither back into the SoCon Freeper community, only to break their teeth biting Palin's ankles.

You certainly have a way with words.

 

[tron paul]

That's nice. Has Palin endorsed HR1207? Has she apologized for supporting the bailout? It's not whether or not Palin is "ideologically pure". It's whether or not she's on our side on the number 1 issue we are pushing right now!

Ron Paul specifically said he wishes Palin & her Palinites would support HR1207.

Sounds like it would behoove us Campaigners For Liberty to raise their awareness of the FED issue by forming ties to the Palin community. Instead of cutting them off for disloyalty, inaction, and whatever other ideological offenses.

I'm not convinced that HR1207 is the best use of Palin's political capitol. HR1207 is only a single battle in the war. You don't risk your Queen to take a pawn; I say we keep Palin in development and play the Long Game.

What's hurting the Tea Party movement more than anything is the smell of hypocrisy.

That's an MSM talking point straight out of Ana Marie Cox's propaganda hole. Which Tea Party did you attend and smell hypocrisy at? I saw a lovely diversity of American opinions at mine. We all had a great time, left, right, and center. No purity of essence required.

When people like Gingrich are allowed to speak after cutting commercials with Nancy Pelosi about "fighting global warming", coming to an agreement with Hillary Clinton on universal health care, and (initially) endorsing the Bush bailout it undermines the movement. Palin only worsens this. Every day Obama supporters are getting more and more nervous about their man. The last thing we need is to legitimize the charge that the movement is ok with GOP bailouts and "stimulus" plans that further weaken our economy, but we have a problem when a black democrat does it. Believe me. I've had that charge thrown in my face already. (Most people I know support Obama). I gently remind them that I was just as outspoken against the Bush bailout. The movement embracing republicans that supported the bailout cuts my whole argument out from under me.

Gingrich has nothing to do with the Tea Parties. That's another Ana Marie Cox disinfo meme. Pure FUD.

Really though. Why Palin? She's not the only republican in the country. Most republicans voted AGAINST the Bush bailout. Why is this concerted effort to elevate people like Palin, Gingrich and Cornyn who supported the bailout over people like Richard Shelby, Jim Demint and others who opposed it? If you can convince Palin to repent of her ways great. If not then she can't help unite the Obama opposition because she was and is very much part of the problem. Heck I'd take Mike Huckabee over Palin. Tom Tancredo? Duncan Hunter? Fred Thompson?

Why Palin? Because I respect the millions of Americans that respect her in much larger numbers than anyone except possibly Obama. We must use Palin's starpower, along with her supporters' energy, numbers, cash, talents, and VOTES.

Your Ally In Liberty,
Tron Paul

 

[acptulsa]

HR1207 is only a single battle in the war. You don't risk your Queen to take a pawn; I say we keep Palin in development and play the Long Game.

Since when is Palin a queen and the Fed a pawn? Seems to me the Fed is anything but a pawn, and if Palin didn't play McCain's pawn he'd have never even mentioned her name.

Why Palin? Because I respect the millions of Americans that respect her in much larger numbers than anyone except possibly Obama. We can Palin's starpower, and her supporters' energy, numbers, cash, talents, and VOTES.

Her supporters are one thing. But to get this queen you imagine her to be, you're going to need a hell of a lot of development. You're going to have to get McCain's pawn to your eighth rank--and we don't even know if she's willing to change colors yet. Good luck with that.

Meanwhile, I'm happy to talk with people who like her (though since she positioned herself as a quitter there are a lot fewer of those). But she's still McCain's pawn to me.

 

[tron paul]

Bee eye in gee oh

And that my dear friend, is where we come in. Our positive influence over her supporters can change everything.

Never before has there been so much talk about the Constitution in the media or otherwise, since Dr. Paul became so well known. His message has permeated in ways that we will never fully know. It's time to take that message to everyone that can be easily converted.

B-I-N-G-O

It is up to us to water the little seeds Ron Paul has planted across the country.

The Tea Parties indicate that they have already sprouted.

Signs also indicate that Palin supporters are fertile ground. Just look at how much $$$ Alaskans gave Dr Paul!

 

[LibertyEagle]

I've named that little clique the Can't Get Along Gang, because they'd rather resent Social Conservatives (like Ron Paul)

Sorry, but that's not going to fly around here.

Ron Paul is NOT a social conservative! Ron Paul stands with the Constitution and regardless of his own personal opinions, he will not use government to force said opinions on everyone else. "Social Conservatives" on the other hand, seem to be solely about their agenda and could care less about the Constitution. They will use big government force anyway they can to force their agenda and then cry about that same big government being used in the same way, but on different agendas, when their big government brethren on the other side of the aisle come to power.

In other words... BITE YOUR TONGUE!

 

[jmdrake]

Ron Paul specifically said he wishes Palin & her Palinites would support HR1207.

I wish she would too. I wish McCain would support it. I wish Obama would support it. Not gonna happen. And you still can't bring yourself to address her support for the bailout.

Sounds like it would behoove us Campaigners For Liberty to raise their awareness of the FED issue by forming ties to the Palin community. Instead of cutting them off for disloyalty, inaction, and whatever other ideological offenses.

Why not form ties with the people who are already on our side on the bailout issue and the HR1207 issue? Why seek to continue to promote people that are against our current top two issues? She doesn't have to come to our side on the Iraq war. She does on the bailout and HR1207. Otherwise what's the point?

I'm not convinced that HR1207 is the best use of Palin's political capitol. HR1207 is only a single battle in the war. You don't risk your Queen to take a pawn; I say we keep Palin in development and play the Long Game.

Palin's a queen for the other side. She's shown no indication of being helpful. You've given no indication of how she's helpful. Ok, she's for gun rights. So is Huckabee.

That's an MSM talking point straight out of Ana Marie Cox's propaganda hole. Which Tea Party did you attend and smell hypocrisy at? I saw a lovely diversity of American opinions at mine. We all had a great time, left, right, and center. No purity of essence required.

The last one I attended in Nashville TN on July 2nd of this year. Matt Collins was also there. The festivities began with a prayer that ended with "And Lord help us support Israel through whom you will fulfill Bible prophecy and where we will receive salvation". They played a recorded message from Newt Gingrich. There was a radio talk show host that kept talking about how "They criticized my president by saying Bush sucks. But we're more sophisticated than that." Next tea party I'm going too I'm carrying my own sign that says "Bush = Obama = Sucky president" or something to that effect. Oh and there was the booth with the giant Israeli and tiny American flag. This 2 days before independence day.

I talked about this before.

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showpost.php?p=2247747&postcount=3

Gingrich has nothing to do with the Tea Parties. That's another Ana Marie Cox disinfo meme. Pure FUD.

At the last tea party I went to in Nashville TN on July 2nd 2009 the official organizers played a recorded message by Newt Gingrich. This is NOT "disinformation". Ask Matt Collins. He was there. A LOT of us were really ticked by this. What you don't understand is that there are two different organizations that use the term "tea party". One is legit. The other has been coopted IMO. But (in Nashville at least) they do somewhat work together.

Why Palin? Because I respect the millions of Americans that respect her in much larger numbers than anyone except possibly Obama. We can Palin's starpower, and her supporters' energy, numbers, cash, talents, and VOTES.

Your Ally In Liberty,
Tron Paul

Why Palin over Huckabee? Again you're ignoring the poll numbers. He polls higher among conservatives than she does and as far as I know never backed the bailout. By your own "we need their supporters" argument Huckabee is a better choice than Palin.

 

[LibertyEagle]

B-I-N-G-O

It is up to us to water the little seeds Ron Paul has planted across the country.

The Tea Parties indicate that they have already sprouted.

Signs also indicate that Palin supporters are fertile ground. Just look at how much $$$ Alaskans gave Dr Paul!

Are you implying that ALL Alaskans are Palin supporters? Give me a break.

I'll tell you what, show us the proof that Palin is a Constitutionalist and maybe, just maybe, some of us might get on board. Until then, it's just so much talk.

Surely you understand why we are skeptical. Right? She came across just like a neocon during the presidential election. And that Israeli flag in her office, well, does she realize she's in the U.S.? Where is her allegiance, I wonder? Is it to Israel or to the U.S.?

A good start would be for her to come out in support of HR1207 and suggest to her followers that they pay attention to Austrian economics, vs. Keynesian economics, and to listen to Ron Paul; because he's the real deal.