The great smoking experiment?

[paulbot24]

I completely agree with your assessment.
How much are we willing to let them control elections?
How much are we willing to let them control the prices of gas and food?
How much are we willing to let them control the value of our wealth through fiat currency?
How much are we willing to let them turn this country into the thing they supposedly fear the most?

These are is the questions I'm asking. "We would never take away your rights! This is a free country! We can make you feel guilty and paranoid and maligned if you use them though........" We can place incredibly difficult conditions on them, put you on surveillance for enjoying them, and make you jump through new and exciting hoops to make sure you're still qualified and safe to be enjoying them. You're still free though! If you don't like it, you can always leave! Cue flag wave......Yay.

 

[LadyBastiat]

And in many places, the government won't even allow the owner to make the decision as to if he wishes to allow smoking in his establishment.

I agree, the property owner should have the right to make that decision. Reminds me so much of the progression of controlling everything we put in our bodies. First it was the drugs and now NY wants to ban sodas over 16 oz. All it takes is giving away one small right (even when it is something we probably should avoid) then POOF, no rights left.

Just for the record, I'm quite proud to announce that I'm closing in on 150 days without a cigarette.

 

[Warrior_of_Freedom]

I dunno how I feel about this issue. As a kid I was constantly getting ear infections. At least one every 2-3 months. I later found out being around smokers can cause these. I also developed bad lung problems. This is when people still smoked in restaurants and other establishments indoors. Mom was also a smoker at home. Now I don't have to worry about smokers when I go out somewhere and no one smokes where I live now. Haven't had an ear infection in 10 years. I don't even remember when the mist from the inhaler tastes like anymore. Should someone be able to decide on their private property if smoking is allowed? I suppose, I just wouldn't go there. I do hate having to walk through a cloud of cigarette smoke because everyone is taking a cigarette break at the same time in front of the office building or when I went to university.

tl;dr
Liberty doesn't mean freedom to make me sick. How could someone argue they have the right to adversely affect someone else's health in public?

 

[DamianTV]

I dont even remember the last time I had a cold. Literally, it has been years. Im attributing much of it to better eating and vitamin d supplements. Oh yeah, and I smoke.

 

[mad cow]

I dunno how I feel about this issue. As a kid I was constantly getting ear infections. At least one every 2-3 months. I later found out being around smokers can cause these. I also developed bad lung problems. This is when people still smoked in restaurants and other establishments indoors. Mom was also a smoker at home. Now I don't have to worry about smokers when I go out somewhere and no one smokes where I live now. Haven't had an ear infection in 10 years. I don't even remember when the mist from the inhaler tastes like anymore. Cigarettes making people sick are more dangerous than guns being on someone's person. Should someone be able to decide on their private property if smoking is allowed? I suppose, I just wouldn't go there. I do hate having to walk through a cloud of cigarette smoke because everyone is taking a cigarette break at the same time in front of the office building or when I went to university.

tl;dr
Liberty doesn't mean freedom to make me sick. How could someone argue they have the right to adversely affect someone else's health in public?

Maybe you will get your wish and cigarettes AND guns being allowed on someone's person will be treated as serious felonies in the near future.
That seems to be the direction we are heading.Lucky you.

 

[tod evans]

I hate exhaust fumes, they cause my eyes to water and make me cough, they're known to be full of carcinogens and every time I walk outside an office building I must walk through a cloud of them. Growing up my parents had cars and a lawnmower, I'm certain the fumes emitted from these internal combustion engines caused ear-aches and breathing difficulties.

Every time I go out in public I'm forced to endure these vile and noxious gasses that make me sick...



Oh-yeah, I refuse to live in the city....It's really not a problem because I made the conscious decision to live in the country.....But I still hate exhaust gasses and believe it's my moral obligation to bitch at people who have the audacity to drive in my presence...

I dunno how I feel about this issue. As a kid I was constantly getting ear infections. At least one every 2-3 months. I later found out being around smokers can cause these. I also developed bad lung problems. This is when people still smoked in restaurants and other establishments indoors. Mom was also a smoker at home. Now I don't have to worry about smokers when I go out somewhere and no one smokes where I live now. Haven't had an ear infection in 10 years. I don't even remember when the mist from the inhaler tastes like anymore. Cigarettes making people sick are more dangerous than guns being on someone's person. Should someone be able to decide on their private property if smoking is allowed? I suppose, I just wouldn't go there. I do hate having to walk through a cloud of cigarette smoke because everyone is taking a cigarette break at the same time in front of the office building or when I went to university.

tl;dr
Liberty doesn't mean freedom to make me sick. How could someone argue they have the right to adversely affect someone else's health in public?

 

[Warrior_of_Freedom]

I'm not going to sit here and respond to juvenile strawman arguments. I expect better from RPF.
If you read it out loud you'd realize how obnoxious it sounds.

 

[tod evans]

I'm not going to sit here and attack strawman arguments. I expect better from RPF.

But what about all the exhaust gas?

"How could someone argue they have the right to adversely affect someone else's health in public?"

 

[mad cow]

"Cigarettes making people sick are more dangerous than guns being on someone's person."

You got a problem with guns being on someone's person?

 

[John F Kennedy III]

Hmmm... let's see... Let's pit person A against the habits of person B and make them fight about it. Group A will vote to take away the rights of Group B. Then Group A decides that it is a good thing to take away rights. So when we want to take away their rights, no one will complain.

I love it when people lecture about how unhealthy smoking is. 99/100 you can find something that non smoker does that is at least as bad for their health as smoking cigarettes.

 

[Dr.3D]

I already explained in my previous post. I also provided a link to learn more about polonium-210 and even quoted it. If you consider that tin-foil hat time for me, I'm okay with that. Personally, I believe that the only thing that causes cancer is ionizing radiation. I would bet my life that cell phones and WIFI don't (I'm an RF Engineer). I guess we all have to do our own research and come to our own conclusions on these things. I am a paranoid type by nature, but that doesn't mean they aren't after me : )

I find it interesting how when I agree with you, you seem to become defensive. I was just adding that those hairs also pick up ionizing radiation from other sources as well as the one you were talking about.

 

[KingNothing]

I love it when people lecture about how unhealthy smoking is. 99/100 you can find something that non smoker does that is at least as bad for their health as smoking cigarettes.

I don't do anything that is even close to as unhealthy as smoking. But I feel no desire to tell anyone not to smoke beyond saying "what? you smoke now? c'mon man, really? ha!" if I see one of my friends decide to light up for the first time.

 

[donnay]

I dunno how I feel about this issue. As a kid I was constantly getting ear infections. At least one every 2-3 months. I later found out being around smokers can cause these. I also developed bad lung problems. This is when people still smoked in restaurants and other establishments indoors. Mom was also a smoker at home. Now I don't have to worry about smokers when I go out somewhere and no one smokes where I live now. Haven't had an ear infection in 10 years. I don't even remember when the mist from the inhaler tastes like anymore. Should someone be able to decide on their private property if smoking is allowed? I suppose, I just wouldn't go there. I do hate having to walk through a cloud of cigarette smoke because everyone is taking a cigarette break at the same time in front of the office building or when I went to university.

tl;dr
Liberty doesn't mean freedom to make me sick. How could someone argue they have the right to adversely affect someone else's health in public?

Gee, I think so many people have been duped with propaganda. I come from a home where both my parents smoked, and I was rarely ever sick. I had perfect attendance when I went to the government run schools too. My father held card games, twice a month at our house, everyone--smoked like fiends. The only time I ever seen my father sick was when his doctor insisted that his cholesterol was too high and put him on statin drugs. But I digress.

I bet you had all you vaccines didn't you?

Sources:
http://www.vaclib.org/links/ears.htm
http://www.whale.to/vaccine/otitis.html
http://www.healthnewsdigest.com/new...er_Introduction_of_Pneumococcus_Vaccine.shtml
http://www.drgreene.com/qa/ear-infection-vaccine
http://www.immunizationinfo.org/science/pcv7-and-ear-infections

Liberty doesn't mean freedom to make me sick. How could someone argue they have the right to adversely affect someone else's health in public?

Yet government has been given this right, with or without consent.

 

[donnay]

I love it when people lecture about how unhealthy smoking is. 99/100 you can find something that non smoker does that is at least as bad for their health as smoking cigarettes.

Yes indeed. Showering in perfumes and colognes give me massive migraines. I worked in companies where I took my lunch breaks outside getting fresh air--winter, spring, summer or fall. I opened windows, to get fresh air and had to endured people telling me to shut them, they were too cold. The same people, mind you, that showered in the very colognes and perfumes I was trying to escape from.

 

[jay_dub]

Smoking laws do create a template for control. That is on the individual level.

On a state level, the threat of highway funds being withheld is used to get the states to toe the line. This has been done with the national seat belt law and with the reduction of the allowable BAC to .08.

What it is at the root is the gov't doing the wrong thing for the perceived 'right' reason. Once this method is established, it's not that hard to branch out to other areas and do the wrong thing for the wrong reason. We have to see this for what it is and keep the gov't from doing the wrong thing.....period.

We've also seen this creeping incrementalism in the War Powers Act and the expansion of the Patriot Act. The shame is most don't see it for what it is. We have been sufficiently conditioned to accept that which would have caused our Founders to be up in arms, yet we bleat placidly in our pens, hoping Sauron's eye isn't turned on us.

I'm a smoker and I've switched to stuffing my own cigarettes. It's MUCH cheaper (about $1.00 a pack) and you don't get all the additives that are in commercial cigs. It galls me that our gov't lets the tobacco companies put all kinds of shit in commercial cigarettes that literally are poisoning us. But, hey, they DO warn us on every pack, right? They have given the tobacco companies a license to kill. When I put my tin foil hat on, I wonder if this isn't deliberate. Of course a safer cigarette could be made. Just stop putting all the shit other than tobacco in them and quit dicking around with the nicotine levels so that the addiction factor is equivalent to smoking crack.

 

[tod evans]

Yes indeed. Showering in perfumes and colognes give me massive migraines. I worked in companies where I took my lunch breaks outside getting fresh air--winter, spring, summer or fall. I opened windows, to get fresh air and had to endured people telling me to shut them, they were too cold. The same people, mind you, that showered in the very colognes and perfumes I was trying to escape from.

I've sprayed so much nitrocellulose lacquer over the years it's odd for me to be able to smell a skunk driving down the road let alone such things as perfume...

Still enjoy fresh air though..

 

[Zippyjuan]

Excellent point; however, as liberty said, it depends on who owns the room. If an establishment allows smoking, I usually just go to a non smoking establishment.

From a very broad perspective, if the smoker is not allowed to smoke, both can still enjoy what goes on in the room. If the person who does not like smoke has to leave, only one person can enjoy what happens in the room.

 

[donnay]

From a very broad perspective, if the smoker is not allowed to smoke, both can still enjoy what goes on in the room. If the person who does not like smoke has to leave, only one person can enjoy what happens in the room.

Not if the person 'enjoys' smoking.

 

[liberty2897]

I find it interesting how when I agree with you, you seem to become defensive. I was just adding that those hairs also pick up ionizing radiation from other sources as well as the one you were talking about.

Sorry, to me it sounded like you were making fun of the polonium-210 in fertilizer thing since you started off with "oh, I see" followed by nuclear testing fallout etc when I didn't mention those things. Anyway, good points. I don't know much about plant physiology, so not sure how that works. Seems plausible that airborne isotopes could also end up being concentrated.

I guess one point I was trying to make is that they are putting a known radioactive carcinogen on the plants even after they funded numerous studies researching the effects of polonium-210 in tobacco. You would think that all those extra tax dollars being placed on cigarettes would at least do something (in the form of regulations) to protect people who choose to smoke from getting lung cancer. At least give tax breaks to organically grown tobacco? If McDonalds was putting radioactive isotopes in their burgers, I'm pretty sure someone would do something about it. I guess we don't have to buy the cigarettes, so... not sure what to think.

 

[VoluntaryAmerican]

Google "Fire-Safe cigarettes" ... you non-smokers will be shocked what Government has done to cigarettes adding chemicals that have (largely unknown) affects on the smoker.

Best thing a smoker can do is quit, but an alternative is rolling your own. There was a good thread on this topic awhile back.

I quit smoking because of health reasons, but at the end I was rolling my own cigarettes and the difference was incredible.