The ever widening gap between the wealthy and everyone else... What can be done?

[Exponent]

All of those items you mention are great starts but the reality of the situation is that large corporations, their executives and the wealthy are retaining a larger and larger portion of the economic pie for themselves. Their employees are more and more frequently being required to work longer and harder without any additional pay increases.

Employees would gladly leave their inconsiderate employers, if they felt confident enough to go out and be productive on their own. Greed is a huge problem, yes, but it would be dealt with effectively if our government and our economy didn't indirectly make people slaves to the job-makers. And you fix this by creating an environment where anyone and everyone can be a job-maker if they choose. You can't force people to not be greedy, because those that are greedy find clever ways to utilize their consolidated power to make the rules work for them rather than against them. The intention is honorable; the practical result rarely seems commendable.

 

[Acala]

All of those items you mention are great starts but the reality of the situation is that large corporations, their executives and the wealthy are retaining a larger and larger portion of the economic pie for themselves. Their employees are more and more frequently being required to work longer and harder without any additional pay increases. So to me, that would indicate that greed is the motivating factor in the increasingly deep divide between those who have and those who have not and those who have less. You can blame the government but that is the free market at work, not the government. The government is not forcing those employers to allow the real income of their employees to fall further and further behind.

If you are hoping for a shiny future in which people no longer are "greedy" or the "greedy" are somehow identified and neutralized by some ruling class of "non-greedy" supermen, you are in for a lifetime of disappointment. Instead you need to understand how greed works to benefit everyone WHEN it is divorced from government power.

I also suggest that you not look at the current corporate/fascist economy and assume a free market would look the same.

 

[Sematary]

I get it. You refuse to acknowledge that there is an issue.

 

[HOLLYWOOD]

You're kidding, right? The poor have gotten richer? Not from where I sit. I'm not poor or rich but I guarantee, even with the full time job that I hold down and the two jobs my wife holds, that we have gotten nothing but less wealthy in the last decade or so.

JT Smith did a piece on this just yesterday on what's wrong in this nation today... here's a clip

SOCIAL WELFARE REFORM?

True example. 25 yr old mother of 5, annual social welfare govt benefits between, cash assist, food stamps ,sect 8 housing, utility assist, free cell phone, free home phone, free school subsidences, Medicaid =$47k for the year and NO TAXES.. SHE filed her tax returned and received a refund check for ............................$10,127.000...You tell me our tax code is kool, and the wealthy are skating..if so this chick is roller blading right thru life on everyone else's back

 

[Sematary]

so the federal reserve (and thus the US government's monetary policy) and its systematic devaluation of the dollar has nothing to do with the employees dollars having less purchasing power?

this isn't the free market at work, this is central planning and crony corporatism in action.

Those items definitely have an impact. Apparently not at the expense of the wealthy, however, only those who are not wealthy

 

[erowe1]

I get it. You refuse to acknowledge that there is an issue.

If you want me to think there's an issue, you could take it upon yourself to prove it.

How do you measure the gap between the rich and everyone else? Don't answer with an anecdote. Show me the number you're using.

Using whatever that metric is, what size is that gap now?

What size should that gap be? And how did you determine this?

 

[Sematary]

JT Smith did a piece on this just yesterday on what's wrong in this nation today... here's a clip

You are correct. There is a problem there. But those aren't the people I'm talking about. I'm talking about working poor. People who get out of bed every day and go to a job and struggle to provide and just get poorer by the day. What you just highlighted here shouldn't even be allowed.

 

[flightlesskiwi]

I get it. You refuse to acknowledge that there is an issue.

i get it. you refuse to acknowledge the real issue.

 

[CaptUSA]

Their employees are more and more frequently being required to work longer and harder without any additional pay increases.

I often hear this type of thing from those who haven't learned about economics. Here's the thing, you have labor and you sell it to your employer. If you are unhappy with the price you are receiving and you think your labor is worth more, then find a new buyer.

You're employer does not set the price of your labor. He agrees to the price you set. If he values your labor more than the price he's paying for it, he will continue to buy it. If not, you need to find a new buyer or increase the quality of your labor. In fact, in a tough economy, good labor is worth more than ever!

Now, this is what you can do now. But to affect the situation on a real scale, you need to have a huge field of potential buyers - that's where the wealthy are playing you. They pull all the strings they can utilizing the government to ensure that you cannot find other buyers. They call it competition - they don't like it. They use government to reduce competition for goods, services, and yes, labor.

 

[Sematary]

Here is where I have an issue:
http://www.businessinsider.com/15-charts-about-wealth-and-inequality-in-america-2010-4#look-at-the-wealth-gap-grow-4

Why? Because a specific socio-economic group in America is taking advantage of the rest of the nation to grow their personal wealth. If my apoplexy over this is unconcerning to you, I can't help that.
The way I see it, the unions came into existence due to a variety of reasons, including a disproportionate amount of the moneys generated by a business being turned to the bank accounts of the wealthy. So, my guess is that eventually, either the unions will make a come back or the poor will revolt. So I guess you're right. Justice will be served in one form or another.

 

[The Free Hornet]

All of those items you mention are great starts but the reality of the situation is that large corporations, their executives and the wealthy are retaining a larger and larger portion of the economic pie for themselves. Their employees are more and more frequently being required to work longer and harder without any additional pay increases. So to me, that would indicate that greed is the motivating factor in the increasingly deep divide between those who have and those who have not and those who have less. You can blame the government but that is the free market at work, not the government. The government is not forcing those employers to allow the real income of their employees to fall further and further behind.

There is no free market at work here. You are using words without understanding their meaning. Also, the wealthy are getting wiped out too. Stock market wealth has dissipated as has real estate wealth. Incomes have fallen. Gold, commodities, and some hedge funds have done well but these are limited to fewer people. As the economic pie shrinks due to the lack of a free market, you can expect the same trends to hold. Further, I expect you to learn nothing and to blame the free market without understanding what it is. As a concept, the free market lacks a standing army with which to defend itself.

 

[Sematary]

I often hear this type of thing from those who haven't learned about economics. Here's the thing, you have labor and you sell it to your employer. If you are unhappy with the price you are receiving and you think your labor is worth more, then find a new buyer.

You're employer does not set the price of your labor. He agrees to the price you set. If he values your labor more than the price he's paying for it, he will continue to buy it. If not, you need to find a new buyer or increase the quality of your labor. In fact, in a tough economy, good labor is worth more than ever!

Now, this is what you can do now. But to affect the situation on a real scale, you need to have a huge field of potential buyers - that's where the wealthy are playing you. They pull all the strings they can utilizing the government to ensure that you cannot find other buyers. They call it competition - they don't like it. They use government to reduce competition for goods, services, and yes, labor.

I can see that. And again, that is a specific socio-economic group taking advantage of another. It would be nice if the government treated everyone equally. I'm willing to bet that doing away with the income tax and replacing it with a flat or consumption tax would go a long way to providing that equality.

 

[Sematary]

I think we all know how this is going to end anyway, thanks to government regulation and FED interference in the economy, and it probably won't be good for many.

 

[erowe1]

Here is where I have an issue:
http://www.businessinsider.com/15-charts-about-wealth-and-inequality-in-america-2010-4#look-at-the-wealth-gap-grow-4

Why? Because a specific socio-economic group in America is taking advantage of the rest of the nation to grow their personal wealth.

Taking advantage of the rest of the nation to grow your wealth is what you're supposed to do. For most of us, doing that is called "having a job." If some people aren't doing that, then they can't blame the ones who are.

Also, you still need to answer the other part of my question. Using any of these metrics (and I don't really care which), how large should the wealth gap be? And how did you determine that?

 

[CaptUSA]

I can see that. And again, that is a specific socio-economic group taking advantage of another. It would be nice if the government treated everyone equally. I'm willing to bet that doing away with the income tax and replacing it with a flat or consumption tax would go a long way to providing that equality.

Thank you. I think you are beginning to understand. The day I first realized the concept of owning my own labor was the day I stopped working for someone else. I work for me and sell my labor. And as such, the quality of my labor has increased and the amount of money businessmen are willing to pay for it skyrocketed. You can do this too.

 

[HOLLYWOOD]

You are correct. There is a problem there. But those aren't the people I'm talking about. I'm talking about working poor. People who get out of bed every day and go to a job and struggle to provide and just get poorer by the day. What you just highlighted here shouldn't even be allowed.

Kind of a broad stroke you painted there...

Is it because they decide to goof off in school or not go to school or not go to college, etc? Or a shitty mandated schooling system by government? Or government theft? Or Federal Reserve Inflation? Or Government Induced Inflation? Or Regulations? Or Too Many and Stiffing Laws? Or government Fascisim? Or whatever... there's so many variables, but the source of problems always ground zero with Government Fraud, Waste, and Abuse

Everyone would be wealthier if not for corrupt government intervention and the associated layers of fraud.

But there's more votes at the lower incomes in this nation and the DWTS/American Idol populist love giving away the long term keys to prosperity for a short term welfare state of crumbs.

It's government that causes the poor to remain poor. It's government intervention and crony policies that have the nation poor right now.

Americans cannot think past next year and can't remember last year.

 

[Byrgen]

There are millions upon millions of people in this country who work their tales off at thankless jobs on a daily basis. They are have seen their life savings eradicated by a stock market that is at the mercy of those who can afford to move millions of shares in an instant. They have gone without raises or with raises that don't keep up with inflation for decades now. How are they not deserving?
Do any of you who are spouting this stuff believe that greed at the highest levels plays any part in the overflowing levels of poverty or in the decimation of the middle class?
I am absolutely positive, as are most of you, that government and fed policy have had negative impacts on the middle class and the poor (especially where inflation is involved) but that isn't the only problem and it is not helpful to pretend that it is.

Yes, that is the only problem. The fed causes wealth to "trickle up" over time, that's what it was designed to do. End it and the income gap will close, there will be less mega-corporations, and more small businesses and self-employed individuals imho.

 

[The Free Hornet]

The way I see it, the unions came into existence due to a variety of reasons, including a disproportionate amount of the moneys generated by a business being turned to the bank accounts of the wealthy. So, my guess is that eventually, either the unions will make a come back or the poor will revolt. So I guess you're right. Justice will be served in one form or another.

Unions serve at least four purposes.

1. Voluntary negotiations with employers (good)
2. Coerced negotiations with employers (bad)
3. Keeping incompetent workers from ruining their reputation (good)
4. Keeping competent workers from working, often at lower prices or taking their hours (bad)

The pro-labor laws and NLRB have enshrined the bad aspects (2 and 4) which displaces the use of the good aspects (1 and 3). Unions have been around a long time in the form of guilds. It is good to know that the blacksmith will make a good horseshoe but it is bad if the local magistrate disallows competition. Your words suggests you think in terms of groups - the wealthy, employers, employees, unions - rather than understanding the concepts which should govern everybody's interactions.

 

[Sematary]

I absolutely believe greed at the highest levels play a huge part in wealth distribution! We do not have a free market and haven't for awhile! If we did, wealth would go to the deserving. As it stands, the wealthy do everything in their power to retain that wealth - not by free exchange, but by use of the government. Take away that possiblity, and rely on the free market, and people will move through income brakcets based upon their efforts.

I would like to believe that is true but if history serves, the 19th century industrial period (a time when government interference in the free market was relatively minimal) was a time when the poor got f***ed by the wealthy. Perhaps my memory serves me wrong.

 

[The Midnight Ride]

It is our destructive economic policies that have caused the widening of wealth. Since 1971 (everyone here knows what happened), prices have outrisen wages by a 2:1 margin. There is your discrepancy. The rich can continue to attain a high standard of living while the middle and lower class has to be more calculated in their expenditures because they do not possess the purchasing power they once did.