The ever widening gap between the wealthy and everyone else... What can be done?

All of those items you mention are great starts but the reality of the situation is that large corporations, their executives and the wealthy are retaining a larger and larger portion of the economic pie for themselves. Their employees are more and more frequently being required to work longer and harder without any additional pay increases. So to me, that would indicate that greed is the motivating factor in the increasingly deep divide between those who have and those who have not and those who have less. You can blame the government but that is the free market at work, not the government. The government is not forcing those employers to allow the real income of their employees to fall further and further behind.

The free market operates under the assumption that everyone is out to achieve the greatest personal benefit at the lowest personal cost. This goes for buyers as well as sellers, and for employees as well as employers. There's a basic moral premise involved: people have the right to be selfish. If you disagree with that moral premise, you will have an extremely difficult time with the notion of a free market. If you don't think people have the right to be selfish - and I mean *totally* selfish, as long as they engage one another by persuasion and mutual agreement - you will have a moral contradiction with the free market. When I say "free market" I mean "laissez faire." You'll come to the conclusion that you probably believe in *some* government regulation, ownership of production, etc., in order to curtail people's natural tendencies to be selfish and greedy. Maybe you think some selfishness is okay, but only in moderation.

If so, you should recognize that the acceptance of such a moral principle necessitates the sanction of physical violence. If someone is being greedy, you will have to threaten to shoot them, beat them with clubs, burn them on a stake or throw them in jail in order to force them to act the way you want them to. That is the essence of government. Every law, no matter how seemingly trivial, from seatbelt laws to an obscure code regulating how many workers you can hire each month, is backed by the same threat of force as every other law: Pay a fine, or go to jail. Resist arrest and die.

You can make people more equal by beating down the top, but you cannot elevate society that way. Is your goal, in eliminating or controlling selfishness and greed, to improve the plight of the poor man, or simply to bring down the rich man? Equality, or progress? The two goals are mutually exclusive, which I'll demonstrate briefly, so you can't have it both ways.

When two people, motivated by greed, trade an item for money, the net result is more than a simple transfer of wealth. Neither party would consent to such a trade unless they believed that they were obtaining greater value in exchange for what they gave up. A person who buys a car values the car more than the money they paid for it, and the person who sells the car values the money more than they value the car. Since economic value is completely subjective, both parties have mutually *increased* their wealth. This is why people in capitalist countries are said to "make money." Both parties have become wealthier, by their own subjective standards of value.

The same is true of employers and employees. Neither party would consent to the employment arrangement unless each considered that it would get more out of the arrangement than it cost them. The employee values their money more than their time and energy, and the employer values the employee's time and energy more than they value the money. If the money is too low, the employee won't value it more than their time and energy, and if the money is too high, the employer won't value the time and energy more than the money. Simple equations. The bottom line is: By working somewhere, you are not only increasing your personal wealth, but you are also increasing the wealth of the company. In this way, your productive achievements are added to the net wealth of an entire society.

Observe then, that the wealthy person who trades with the poor person becomes richer, and so does the poor person! IN FACT: This is the *only* manner in which wealth has ever or will ever be created, and it is the *only* manner in which the poor can elevate their standards of living. Why? Because all material human values have to come from *productive achievement.* The food you eat, the clothes you wear, the bed you sleep in, the movies you watch, the video games you play are all the result of someone, somewhere exercising their rational mind in conjunction with an expenditure of time and energy to produce that item for the sole purpose of being SELFISH and GREEDY, so they could trade it with someone else and increase their personal wealth.

Rational minds, producing and achieving great things, do not operate nearly as well when they have a gun pointed at them. Rational minds do not sanction their own victimization. Rational minds do not sacrifice the values that keep them alive in the name of mystical, irrational morality that holds that someone's *need* holds a claim upon the lives and energy of the people around them.

Ultimately, in a capitalist society there will be individuals whose personal achievements are greater than the vast majority of the rest of the population, and if they are wise with their money their wealth will accumulate to untold levels. They'll leave the rest of society in their wake. But in that wake, the rest of society will have been dragged along. From the modest day laborer to the poorest of the poor, they will have seen their personal wealth grow leaps and bounds beyond where they might have been, and where they would have been if they had attempted to stamp out the producers with laws and regulations and guns and taxes.

But this is all contingent! I've painted a picture of something that doesn't exist, because there is no completely free market in the world, and the poor people are not the only people who can use government force! The rich can do it too, and perhaps more effectively, even when they're significantly outnumbered in a democracy. We see it today, when the fat cat Wallstreet bankers get their bailouts, when the large mega corporations attempt to monopolize markets by abusing patent laws and advocating costly regulatory measures that prevent smaller start-ups from getting ahead or even forming. This is one source of the income disparity you see today. Inflation that wipes out the middle class, regulations that destroy the small investor. The poor can't get jobs in this country, but the big corporations don't have any problem finding cheap labor. They simply go overseas or import their workers through special visa programs.

So there you have it: when you get the government involved in the marketplace you end up with corporatism or socialism. It's hard to argue that either is any worse than the other, or even that terribly different, and they're essentially based on the same fallacy: that might makes right.

We need to free ourselves from each other. We need to end coercion, not create it. We need to progress together, not stagnate equally.

We need liberty.
 
It's damn taxes that nickle and dime everyone to death. http://www.clearpictureonline.com/1960-US State Health.html

Raising taxes, especially income/payroll taxes are the real issue. Doing so would put any economy at risk. We need only examine how states with the highest income tax rates perform relative to their zero-income tax counterparts. Comparing the nine states with the highest tax rates on earned income to the nine states with no income tax shows how high tax rates weaken economic performance. There's 11 states where income taxes were adopted over the past 50 years are: Connecticut (1991), New Jersey (1976), Ohio (1971), Rhode Island (1971), Pennsylvania (1971), Maine (1969), Illinois (1969), Nebraska (1967), Michigan (1967), Indiana (1963) and West Virginia (1961). State taxes have risen across the board and MANY exponentially of the last 50 years. So where someone says we need to let the Bush Tax Cuts expire, don't realize how much at all levels taxes have increased elsewhere in government attack on the earners.

Each and every state that introduced an income tax saw its share of total U.S. output decline. Some of the states, like Michigan, Pennsylvania and Ohio, have become fiscal basket cases. Even West Virginia, which was poor to begin with, got relatively poorer after adopting a state income tax. The states that have high income tax rates or have adopted a state income tax over the past 50 years haven't even gotten the money return they hoped for. They haven't avoided budget crises, nor have they provided better lives for the poor. The financial travails of California which was given Billions just to cover their debt from the stimulus bailout did nothing to help the situation, with the inception of prolonging an even greater collapse down the road.

Over the past decade, the nine states with the highest tax rates have experienced tax revenue growth of 74%—a full 22% less than the states with no income tax. Why on earth would you want to introduce a state income tax when it means less money for state coffers? What's true for those states with the highest tax rates is doubly true for the 11 states that have instituted state income taxes over the past 50 years. They too have lost huge sums of tax revenue. A final thought for those who want to punish the rich for their success: those states with the highest tax rates, and those states that have introduced state income taxes, have seen standards of living (personal income per capita) substantially under perform compared to their no-tax counterparts. Those state look for other methods to raise revenue, such as an increases in property taxes, sale taxes, excise taxes, etc.

http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/taxfacts/index.cfm

In 1960, only the first $4,800 of income was taxed — and at a rate of just 3%. Social Security tax rate is more than twice as high, 6.2 percent, and the first $106,800 of earned income is taxed. (The amount subject to taxation goes up every year, using a formula based on increases in average wages.)
Another reason the payroll tax burden today is heavier than it was in 1960 is that 50 years ago there was no Medicare — and thus no Medicare tax (that didn’t arrive until 1966.)


Workers in 1960 didn’t have to pay the 1.45 percent Medicare tax which workers pay today. And that Medicare tax applies to all earned income, not just to the first $106,800, as the Social Security tax does.

or how about the new 3.8% Medicare tax on real estate transactions on those set levels by team Obama of $250K/$125K ea joint or $200 individual

AMT tax? Inflation imposed this tax on 122 EARNERS that paid $0 in taxes on $200K, which now is affecting ~19 millions of taxpayers each year. Government never seems to adjust for inflation, let alone true inflation, which is their scheme to control the tax year to year.

It's the Ever Widening Gap Between the Taxpayers and Government... government at all levels have exceeded both the true inflation and worker wage rates over the past 50 years reduce the taxpayer's standard of living. Some references before Obama's prosperity debt of $4+ Trillion in 3 fiscal years. 1960-2008

1960_State_Local_Gov_Costs.png
1960_Federal_Gov_Costs_Today.png
 
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There are millions upon millions of people in this country who work their tales off at thankless jobs on a daily basis. They are have seen their life savings eradicated by a stock market that is at the mercy of those who can afford to move millions of shares in an instant. They have gone without raises or with raises that don't keep up with inflation for decades now. How are they not deserving?
Do any of you who are spouting this stuff believe that greed at the highest levels plays any part in the overflowing levels of poverty or in the decimation of the middle class?
I am absolutely positive, as are most of you, that government and fed policy have had negative impacts on the middle class and the poor (especially where inflation is involved) but that isn't the only problem and it is not helpful to pretend that it is.

Are you suggesting hard core socialism or even communism are the solutions to our difficulties? I certainly hope not as those systems simply do not work as well as the one we have.
 
I guess I'm a little befuddled on this issue. All you have to do is look at the news (middle class incomes down) (wealthy Americans are wealthier) (More people in poverty) etc... etc...
So what can be done about the disconnect?
I have NEVER subscribed to the trickle down economic theory of Reagan, etc... and I still don't. It's total bs. It is a
fallacy that has been proven wrong time and time again.

I also believe in the free market but it seems to me that the free market is failing in this arena.

So what, within reason, can be done to jump start the middle class income again? And what can the market do to change the great divide between rich and poor? Or is there nothing that can be done as we watch more and more of our nation become poverty stricken and more and more of our middle class disappear?

FYI:

gapgraph.jpg
 
Our concern as a society is not what the gap between the rich and poor is.

The concern is opening the market place up so that the poor can escape poverty by the merit of their own minds and hands.

Collectivism sucks. Class warfare and "class'ism" are counter productive.

What matters is: "Can the poor escape poverty, if they so choose?". If the answer is yes; poverty is virtually irrelevant.
 
The difference between the rich and the poor is completely relevant. In a healthy society everyone benefits economically. In societies where the wealthy benefit in a manner which far outweighs their value and leaves the rest of society in economic hardship, revolution ensues.
 
Our concern as a society is not what the gap between the rich and poor is.

The concern is opening the market place up so that the poor can escape poverty by the merit of their own minds and hands.

Collectivism sucks. Class warfare and "class'ism" are counter productive.

What matters is: "Can the poor escape poverty, if they so choose?". If the answer is yes; poverty is virtually irrelevant.

So do you believe the conditions exist for the poverty stricken to escape from their predicament? I do not.
 
I do not either (insufficient opportunity).

With that being said, overall, when looked at from a multi century perspective, the poor have more opportunity then ever (globally).

The USA is taking steps backwards. Has been for decades.

So do you believe the conditions exist for the poverty stricken to escape from their predicament? I do not.
 
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Personally I think most people's definition of wealth is a monetarist one. The only way poverty will be defeated is if the productive capacity, measured in tons, per capita of the entire planet is raised, this requires a higher energy flux density than we're capable of now. I don't suppose free trade is going to do anything for anyone. The so-called "Invisible Hand' is no more merciful than that of Uncle Sam's. The Free Market and Government both rape and pillage the people of Sovereign Nation States. However, the Government, at least in the US, is "chartered" to look after the people's interest, I wont disagree that it fails at abiding by it's Charter. However I wont agree that the free market has not caused just as much war, death, and looting as collective Governments.

Its Monetary Imperialism folks, it isn't new.
 
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