torchbearer
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The debt isn't linear... its exponential.
Then imagine the bar jumping over the 10 trillion mark a year later.
The dollar is NOT going to collapse...YOU need to wake up
- Thread starter icon124
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Then imagine the bar jumping over the 10 trillion mark a year later.
icon124
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I'm just using 20 years to simplify the situation...The fed can issue bonds anywhere from 1 month to 30 years...it really is up to them where they want to deal with the problem of inflation...I assume they would use the longer term for obvious reasons...but who knows...
Print money now...issue bonds everyone wants...more than likely they want longer term bonds because everyone is playing this thing up to be long term...hmmm....wonder want the fed thinks right now
icon124
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is no one realizing what the fed is doing...
basically they ARE NOT doing anything to the money supply right now...someone there is so smart...moving the problem onto someone else...so they won't get blamed...
Issue as much as they see necessary right now...you know why?...because everyone wants to invest in Government bonds...EVERYONE IS RUSHING TO THEM....collect the money and hold it...
the money supply isn't changing AT ALL...simple economics...inflation is caused by the increase in the money supply...that is as simple as it gets...
if the fed can hold all of the money for 20 years or so it's someone elses responsibility...
wake up
basically they ARE NOT doing anything to the money supply right now...someone there is so smart...moving the problem onto someone else...so they won't get blamed...
Issue as much as they see necessary right now...you know why?...because everyone wants to invest in Government bonds...EVERYONE IS RUSHING TO THEM....collect the money and hold it...
the money supply isn't changing AT ALL...simple economics...inflation is caused by the increase in the money supply...that is as simple as it gets...
if the fed can hold all of the money for 20 years or so it's someone elses responsibility...
wake up
icon124
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Then imagine the bar jumping over the 10 trillion mark a year later.
Okay...your point? The bar could jump to infinity...as long as enough people have trust in the dollar it isn't going anywhere.
torchbearer
Lizard King
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There is a point at which people will not believe we will ever be able to pay it back.
As in, when the interest per day on the debt is bigger than our entire GDP.
Yeah- buy them bonds.
I got some ocean front property in arizona I want to sell ya.
Mitt Romneys sideburns
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What the hell is going on here?
RSLudlum
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icon124
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There is a point at which people will not believe we will ever be able to pay it back.
As in, when the interest per day on the debt is bigger than our entire GDP.
Yeah- buy them bonds.
I got some ocean front property in arizona I want to sell ya.
Now...in all honesty...and not trying to live up to your..."I'm so pro Ron Paul stance" when do you see our debt reaching 13 trillion...our national debt isn't there yet...how the hell is our interest going to be even 10% of that...
You're not understanding my post...we AREN'T going to see a collapse of our currency any time soon...20 years or so from now maybe...but not now
not counting social security obviously...that is no debt..they can print that in a second and issue bonds to cover it
Theoretically, that wouldn't increase the amount of assets available for purchase with this dollars to infinity.
What happens when there's so many dollars that everyone makes $100,000 a month? Will everyone be able to go out and buy a new car twice a month if they want?
weatherbill
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Threats to the dollar
#1 The Iranian oil bourse
#2 China who holds trillions who will want to dump one day
#3 middle east who holds trillions who will want to dump one day
#4 Russia who will want to dump one day
#5 Gold n silver looks prettier
#6 USD loosing value
#7 too many of them the fed keeps printing
#8 world is moving away from petro dollar becasue they have too many
#9 Venesuela wants to move their oil out of USD as well
#10 CHina and Russia want world domination
#11 The Elite who own the world want dollar fall for NAU
#12 our own banking system
#13 Americans getting smart to fractional reserve inherant corruption
#14 we don't make anything anymore. We're just a consuming nation
#15 We're falling apart and can;t even keep a border together
#16 adding up all of the above threats should cause anyone with a brain to consider there are too many threats to the dollar and be looking to dump it
There's you sweet 16 of why the USdollar is going, going...................almost gone
#1 The Iranian oil bourse
#2 China who holds trillions who will want to dump one day
#3 middle east who holds trillions who will want to dump one day
#4 Russia who will want to dump one day
#5 Gold n silver looks prettier
#6 USD loosing value
#7 too many of them the fed keeps printing
#8 world is moving away from petro dollar becasue they have too many
#9 Venesuela wants to move their oil out of USD as well
#10 CHina and Russia want world domination
#11 The Elite who own the world want dollar fall for NAU
#12 our own banking system
#13 Americans getting smart to fractional reserve inherant corruption
#14 we don't make anything anymore. We're just a consuming nation
#15 We're falling apart and can;t even keep a border together
#16 adding up all of the above threats should cause anyone with a brain to consider there are too many threats to the dollar and be looking to dump it
There's you sweet 16 of why the USdollar is going, going...................almost gone
misericordia
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http://www.tigersoft.com/Tiger-Blogs/11-29-2007/index.html pay attention to the charts.
and read what Pat Buchanan has to say about the IMF bailouts.
America will be the last to fail, but fail it will. This is going to be a holocaust.
and read what Pat Buchanan has to say about the IMF bailouts.
America will be the last to fail, but fail it will. This is going to be a holocaust.
This is more "the consumer is the most important part of the economy" economic theory. Same one that says a weak dollar is good, and debt is good. Its the stupid deconstructionist backtalk where everything is reanalyzed until it is assumed there are no right and wrong. Its more "broken windows are good" bullshit.
P
PeacePlan
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All fiat currencies fail sooner or later - study monetary history.
danberkeley
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TulsaRevolution
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The dollar SHOULD collapse, based on what we know.
However, I leave it open as a possibility that they will manipulate their way out, and/or CHANGE THE RULES ENTIRELY, so that educated folks who understand logical economics have no way of predicting the future.
They do seem to be in the process of attempting to completely overhaul the rules as we know them.
It remains to be seen if this is successful.
The reality is that you can never get something for nothing though, so someone will suffer in the end.
However, I leave it open as a possibility that they will manipulate their way out, and/or CHANGE THE RULES ENTIRELY, so that educated folks who understand logical economics have no way of predicting the future.
They do seem to be in the process of attempting to completely overhaul the rules as we know them.
It remains to be seen if this is successful.
The reality is that you can never get something for nothing though, so someone will suffer in the end.
Mini-Me
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I see the final collapse of the dollar and hyperinflation coming in about ten years, though it could conceivably happen at any time. Throughout history, currencies that have gone into hyperinflation have often done so very suddenly and precipitously.
All of the countries in the world sitting on large dollar reserves are watching them slowly depreciate in purchasing power. As you said, the global marketplace is very dependent on America, and some of these other countries are slowly starting to see that it may not be such a good idea to be so heavily invested in the dollar. As oil and other commodities become more regularly priced in Euros and other currencies, the dollar will no longer be such a highly sought-after commodity. We are not exporting very much ourselves, so right now, the strength of the dollar is tied very strongly to its usefulness in the oil trade...and that usefulness is starting to fade away. At some point, other countries will want to start offloading some of those dollars while they can still buy something of value. In other words, after we inflate the dollar enough, other countries like China are going to cut their losses and bail out to save their own asses, and that will only accelerate the downturn. They'll probably start to do this gradually and covertly, so they don't spark immediate hyperinflation and lose all of their purchasing power or provoke a war.
The problem is, our national debt is horrendous. It's already grown to the point where, even if we started doing everything right today, it would not be fun to start paying it off honestly with regular taxes. Currently, the government makes payments on its debt by borrowing more money, and so its debt continues to spiral outwards. By inflating the money supply to service this debt, we're constantly increasing the supply of dollars, yet the demand for dollars is already going down as more commodities move away from being denominated in dollars. In addition, our government is way too stupid to deal with the cost of our empire, let alone our Social Security and Medicare liabilities. I don't think they will ever "default" on those obligations; rather, they will simply monetize them. Plus, there's always the chance that hyperinflation might occur sometime down the road in the domestic market alone. All of this makes for a dangerous combination, and other countries can see this. They're not stupid: Why do you think we're borrowing so much from China? It's because European banks - our traditional trading partners and allies - have already decided that we're not going to make good on our debt with dollars that are actually worth enough to justify lending. After China stops lending to us, then who will? We might just start printing all the money we need, and then things will really go sour. Furthermore, each country with large reserves knows that if another country dollar-dumps first, they'll be screwed. In other words, each country sitting on massive dollar reserves has a financial incentive to be the first to offload them.
Their desire to do this is being tempered by several factors:
Obviously, nobody wants World War III, so these countries are putting off dumping the dollar until they have no other choice or until they have all of their pieces in place. Still...the situation is very precarious for all involved. I imagine this is one of the reasons why the Chinese are pushing for a transition to an international central bank and currency: They're already "in so deep" when it comes to our currency, and now they need a way to secure their investment. In the minds of the Chinese, converting everything to an international currency would prevent the United States alone from inflating the hell out of it all by itself to service its own debt, thereby protecting the value of China's current holdings. It would ensure that everything in the world traded in the same currency (which the Chinese can obtain LOTS of by trading away the dollars they're neck-deep in). This would avoid the otherwise inevitable hyperinflation of the dollar...though in the long run, the new fiat currency would be similarly doomed to failure, of course. In the meantime, we'd see even worse wealth confiscation, only this time on an international level and with nowhere else to turn.
From this perspective, it's not only the NWO who are interested in a worldwide fiat currency.
The bottom line is: The dollar's fate is sealed. It will eventually collapse, unless:
Second, when will this happen? You might suggest that this could not possibly happen for another twenty years or more, but I disagree...I believe it is coming much sooner. I'd give it less than ten years, though I could be wrong and it might be much sooner (as I said above, it could possibly happen quite suddenly at any moment or with some significant shift in the geopolitical landscape). I'm not panicking or screaming "The sky is falling!" here. Rather, I'm carefully weighing the factors involved, and the current arrangement does not look like it will last for anywhere near another twenty years.
All of the countries in the world sitting on large dollar reserves are watching them slowly depreciate in purchasing power. As you said, the global marketplace is very dependent on America, and some of these other countries are slowly starting to see that it may not be such a good idea to be so heavily invested in the dollar. As oil and other commodities become more regularly priced in Euros and other currencies, the dollar will no longer be such a highly sought-after commodity. We are not exporting very much ourselves, so right now, the strength of the dollar is tied very strongly to its usefulness in the oil trade...and that usefulness is starting to fade away. At some point, other countries will want to start offloading some of those dollars while they can still buy something of value. In other words, after we inflate the dollar enough, other countries like China are going to cut their losses and bail out to save their own asses, and that will only accelerate the downturn. They'll probably start to do this gradually and covertly, so they don't spark immediate hyperinflation and lose all of their purchasing power or provoke a war.
The problem is, our national debt is horrendous. It's already grown to the point where, even if we started doing everything right today, it would not be fun to start paying it off honestly with regular taxes. Currently, the government makes payments on its debt by borrowing more money, and so its debt continues to spiral outwards. By inflating the money supply to service this debt, we're constantly increasing the supply of dollars, yet the demand for dollars is already going down as more commodities move away from being denominated in dollars. In addition, our government is way too stupid to deal with the cost of our empire, let alone our Social Security and Medicare liabilities. I don't think they will ever "default" on those obligations; rather, they will simply monetize them. Plus, there's always the chance that hyperinflation might occur sometime down the road in the domestic market alone. All of this makes for a dangerous combination, and other countries can see this. They're not stupid: Why do you think we're borrowing so much from China? It's because European banks - our traditional trading partners and allies - have already decided that we're not going to make good on our debt with dollars that are actually worth enough to justify lending. After China stops lending to us, then who will? We might just start printing all the money we need, and then things will really go sour. Furthermore, each country with large reserves knows that if another country dollar-dumps first, they'll be screwed. In other words, each country sitting on massive dollar reserves has a financial incentive to be the first to offload them.
Their desire to do this is being tempered by several factors:
- We may not be an economic giant anymore in most ways, but we are a military giant...and we're such a bully that we're ready to enforce dollar hegemony on the world with bombs.
- They might not necessarily want to piss off their dollar-holding allies by ruining their economies, either.
- Some may be wanting to run the game as long as possible so we rack up as big of a debt as possible...which they then might force us to pay not in nominal dollars but in inflation-adjusted dollars or with real collateral.
Obviously, nobody wants World War III, so these countries are putting off dumping the dollar until they have no other choice or until they have all of their pieces in place. Still...the situation is very precarious for all involved. I imagine this is one of the reasons why the Chinese are pushing for a transition to an international central bank and currency: They're already "in so deep" when it comes to our currency, and now they need a way to secure their investment. In the minds of the Chinese, converting everything to an international currency would prevent the United States alone from inflating the hell out of it all by itself to service its own debt, thereby protecting the value of China's current holdings. It would ensure that everything in the world traded in the same currency (which the Chinese can obtain LOTS of by trading away the dollars they're neck-deep in). This would avoid the otherwise inevitable hyperinflation of the dollar...though in the long run, the new fiat currency would be similarly doomed to failure, of course. In the meantime, we'd see even worse wealth confiscation, only this time on an international level and with nowhere else to turn.
From this perspective, it's not only the NWO who are interested in a worldwide fiat currency.The bottom line is: The dollar's fate is sealed. It will eventually collapse, unless:
- We change our policies, or
- The worst happens and it's converted into a regional or worldwide currency
Second, when will this happen? You might suggest that this could not possibly happen for another twenty years or more, but I disagree...I believe it is coming much sooner. I'd give it less than ten years, though I could be wrong and it might be much sooner (as I said above, it could possibly happen quite suddenly at any moment or with some significant shift in the geopolitical landscape). I'm not panicking or screaming "The sky is falling!" here. Rather, I'm carefully weighing the factors involved, and the current arrangement does not look like it will last for anywhere near another twenty years.
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rrcamp
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Plus, Peter Schiff brought up a good point on yesterdays radio session - Norway has just had to spend billions of taxpayer dollars to bail our Norwegian banks holding US mortgage debt. This story is repeated all over the globe. Forget what foreign governments/central banks want - how long do you think the world population will allow their tax dollars to keep proping us up?
MoneyWhereMyMouthIs2
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The rest of the world isn't stupid. They know that when you inflate the money supply, you're devaluing their holdings.
That's worked to some extent, but I don't think the men and women of the armed forces appreciate being used that way. It can't last.
Everyone doesn't want bonds. Why would I want bonds? These people running things obviously can't be trusted. With a bond, I have to trust the bond issuer as well as trust that the currency won't be inflated.
You're suggesting we can defeat basic economics by believing in fairy tales. If only everyone would believe! It turns out that they don't. The feds and the fed have told us in no uncertain terms that they're going to print and print and print no matter what anyone else thinks about it. That doesn't inspire confidence. There's a limit to the amount of bonds they can sell, and the more they print money, the harder it will be.
