The Constitution Party is not Constitutional.

[Frealism]

Is it better than the Republicrat party? Yes, ok, so get the f out of my way, I am voting for something better than what we have....

So now you are going to vote for the lesser of three evils? This is the WRONG attitude.



This is an excellent thread and I thank you Neil Kiernan Stephenson.



I think the biggest problem with our movement right now is that we are becoming like the reps and dems. I mean in the sense that Ron says he supports Baldwin so the majority of you are blindly voting for him, just like republicans do. We are supposed to evaluate each candidate for the various offices and examine there history and ideas before voting for them THAT IS WHAT BEING A GOOD CITIZEN IS.

Ron will not be around forever, if we fall into the blind following of a candidate because the leaders of our movement tell us to then corruption will take hold of this revolution and it will be crushed from within. There are too many of us ready to follow here so we are already a natural draw for corrupt power seekers. To prevent this we must always do our own evaluations. We are not Ron Paul supporting Zombies we are supposed to be champions of liberty, and liberty takes effort, it does not spring from blindly following an individual no matter how great that person is.

I am not saying to not vote for Chuck, if you truly agree with his views then go ahead, and I am certainly not trying to insult or debase RP in any way, but please do not vote for Baldwin simply because Ron said he is supporting him. Ron Paul would want and EXPECT you to research Baldwin and decide if you truly think he is the best choice.

 

[Alawn]

This is from Chuck Baldwin yesterday.

I want to return America to constitutional government. "The powers not
delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to
the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people."
(Amendment X) I believe that, and will govern the Executive branch of the
federal government accordingly.

My sworn oath to the Tenth Amendment means I would dismantle the Patriot Act
and restore law enforcement to the states and local governments, where it
rightly belongs. Yes, this includes the so-called "war on drugs" and the
so-called "war on terror."


And even though I am a born again Christian (as is Ron Paul), I would take
my responsibility to protect the religious liberty of every American
seriously. People have the right to worship God (or not worship God)
according to the dictates of their own conscience. Whether one is Baptist,
Catholic, Mormon, or agnostic, people have the right to practice their faith
as they see fit. I am absolutely dedicated to preserving religious liberty.
Religious tyranny is as evil as political or social tyranny. And, as I will
be no man's slave, neither will I be any man's master.

 

[Neil Kiernan Stephenson]

So now you are going to vote for the lesser of three evils? This is the WRONG attitude.



This is an excellent thread and I thank you Neil Kiernan Stephenson.



I think the biggest problem with our movement right now is that we are becoming like the reps and dems. I mean in the sense that Ron says he supports Baldwin so the majority of you are blindly voting for him, just like republicans do. We are supposed to evaluate each candidate for the various offices and examine there history and ideas before voting for them THAT IS WHAT BEING A GOOD CITIZEN IS.

Ron will not be around forever, if we fall into the blind following of a candidate because the leaders of our movement tell us to then corruption will take hold of this revolution and it will be crushed from within. There are too many of us ready to follow here so we are already a natural draw for corrupt power seekers. To prevent this we must always do our own evaluations. We are not Ron Paul supporting Zombies we are supposed to be champions of liberty, and liberty takes effort, it does not spring from blindly following an individual no matter how great that person is.

I am not saying to not vote for Chuck, if you truly agree with his views then go ahead, and I am certainly not trying to insult or debase RP in any way, but please do not vote for Baldwin simply because Ron said he is supporting him. Ron Paul would want and EXPECT you to research Baldwin and decide if you truly think he is the best choice.

Thank you.

 

[Neil Kiernan Stephenson]

This is from Chuck Baldwin yesterday.

You cannot be for religious liberty, and then in your platform advocate legislation based on your own religion.

 

[mconder]

Another purist jerk weed.

 

[Alawn]

You cannot be for religious liberty, and then in your platform advocate legislation based on your own religion.

He does not set the party's platform. He does not support every aspect of the party's platform. Ron Paul doesn't support every aspect of his party's platform either. He may like certain parts of it but he never pledged allegiance to the party's platform. He has stated over and over again he would only seek to pass or enforce laws that are expressly authorized by the constitution. He has said he will not try to push his religion on anyone. Plus he is running for a federal position. Everything you are upset about are issues that only a state would have any ability to pass laws on. Right in the quote I gave he said that all law enforcement (crimes) should be done by the states and local governments only.

I want to return America to constitutional government. "The powers not
delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to
the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people."
(Amendment X) I believe that, and will govern the Executive branch of the
federal government accordingly.

My sworn oath to the Tenth Amendment means I would dismantle the Patriot Act
and restore law enforcement to the states and local governments, where it
rightly belongs. Yes, this includes the so-called "war on drugs" and the
so-called "war on terror."


And even though I am a born again Christian (as is Ron Paul), I would take
my responsibility to protect the religious liberty of every American
seriously. People have the right to worship God (or not worship God)
according to the dictates of their own conscience. Whether one is Baptist,
Catholic, Mormon, or agnostic, people have the right to practice their faith
as they see fit. I am absolutely dedicated to preserving religious liberty.
Religious tyranny is as evil as political or social tyranny. And, as I will
be no man's slave, neither will I be any man's master.

 

[mconder]

if we fall into the blind following of a candidate because the leaders of our movement tell us to then corruption will take hold of this revolution

If we fall in line behind no one, the movement will die. Believe me.

 

[bojo68]

You cannot be for religious liberty, and then in your platform advocate legislation based on your own religion.

Especially when you've specifically stated you support the party platform.

Bye the way, thanks for doing a tactful job of showing theocrat how far off he is. My experience with those types is that there's no integrity whatsoever, they'll continually distort, lie, and cheat to try to get their way, sorta like the Republican party did to Ron Paul. Imagine that, the party being full of those types...

 

[revolutionisnow]

What's with all the Baldwin bashing lately? First everyone attacked Barr and now Baldwin. Why not attack the status quo and McCain/Obama instead of nit picking because these other candidates are not Ron Paul and you don't agree with them 100%?

 

[JosephTheLibertarian]

And the LP isn't libertarian, so what's your point?

Their platform is libertarian. Libertarianism is minarchism, no?

 

[SpaceGoat]

As a fellow Pagan

As a fellow Pagan I applaud your brave stance Neil...we are behind you in your quest for freedom!!! You are the official Pagan candidate for Congress. Stand strong!!!

http://pagan.meetup.com/54/members/6272786/

 

[JosephTheLibertarian]

I was ready to support Baldwin, until I caught a video of him at the National Press Club praising Jerry Falwell and talking up his time spent as a Moral Majority member.

Fuck that. Nader 2008.

I always knew you were a socialist. Thanks for affirming this for me.

 

[RP4EVER]

Ill make the same statement I made last night.

Baldwin supported Ron Paul

Barr supported the Patriot Act....really freakin Libertarian aint he.

Just thought Id throw that out Neil...since you are now judging by past actions.

 

[RonPaulMania]

Fellas,

Just because there was a movement against the establishment of one religion over the other DOES NOT mean there was not Christian movement in laws. Every state banned homosexuality as a public and private expression, and there were many other laws which were explicitly Christian in nature, but Christianity does not fall under the "one religion" adopted by the state, and if you are not nuanced enough to understand that I don't know what else to say.

Most of the framers of the country said that the country could not do without the Bible, and said so explicitly. Even Jefferson, a deist with no Christian affiliation, asserted as much.

Here's Ron Paul on the subject:

The notion of a rigid separation between church and state has no basis in either the text of the Constitution or the writings of our Founding Fathers. On the contrary, our Founders’ political views were strongly informed by their religious beliefs. Certainly the drafters of the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution, both replete with references to God, would be aghast at the federal government’s hostility to religion. The establishment clause of the First Amendment was simply intended to forbid the creation of an official state church like the Church of England, not to drive religion out of public life.

The Founding Fathers envisioned a robustly Christian yet religiously tolerant America, with churches serving as vital institutions that would eclipse the state in importance. Throughout our nation’s history, churches have done what no government can ever do, namely teach morality and civility. Moral and civil individuals are largely governed by their own sense of right and wrong, and hence have little need for external government. This is the real reason the collectivist Left hates religion: Churches as institutions compete with the state for the people’s allegiance, and many devout people put their faith in God before their faith in the state. Knowing this, the secularists wage an ongoing war against religion, chipping away bit by bit at our nation’s Christian heritage. Christmas itself may soon be a casualty of that war.

 

[bojo68]

What's with all the Baldwin bashing lately? First everyone attacked Barr and now Baldwin. Why not attack the status quo and McCain/Obama instead of nit picking because these other candidates are not Ron Paul and you don't agree with them 100%?

I've been opposed to the constitution party for years over this issue, and have refused involvement as a result. Just because others now are raising the same points doesn't mean I have to stop with my rejection of them.

 

[SpaceGoat]

bump

Bump for Pagans!!!

 

[Neil Kiernan Stephenson]

Ill make the same statement I made last night.

Baldwin supported Ron Paul

Barr supported the Patriot Act....really freakin Libertarian aint he.

Just thought Id throw that out Neil...since you are now judging by past actions.

Just so we have this clear, where exactly did you get the idea that I think Barr is any better?

Barr's voting record looks like he followed the CP platform.

Drug warrior, crusader against Wicca, and gay marriage.

 

[Neil Kiernan Stephenson]

Especially when you've specifically stated you support the party platform.

Bye the way, thanks for doing a tactful job of showing theocrat how far off he is. My experience with those types is that there's no integrity whatsoever, they'll continually distort, lie, and cheat to try to get their way, sorta like the Republican party did to Ron Paul. Imagine that, the party being full of those types...

Hehe. Glad to be of service. It was a lot of fun to take his link that was supposed to make me "lose the argument" and get even more information that supported mine.

 

[Neil Kiernan Stephenson]

Fellas,

Just because there was a movement against the establishment of one religion over the other DOES NOT mean there was not Christian movement in laws. Every state banned homosexuality as a public and private expression, and there were many other laws which were explicitly Christian in nature, but Christianity does not fall under the "one religion" adopted by the state, and if you are not nuanced enough to understand that I don't know what else to say.

Most of the framers of the country said that the country could not do without the Bible, and said so explicitly. Even Jefferson, a deist with no Christian affiliation, asserted as much.

Here's Ron Paul on the subject:

If that is honestly how Ron Paul feels, which I doubt, then I would revoke my endorsement of Ron Paul as well.

 

[Neil Kiernan Stephenson]

Their platform is libertarian. Libertarianism is minarchism, no?

The size of a government is only part of the issue.

The FREEDOMS that such a government grants are far more important. And if the Constitution is "biblical law" then freedoms are going to be interpreted based on a lot of ideals I do not agree with.