The case for the occurence of algorithmic vote flipping

Sue is a PA State level GOP insider. She deserves our full attention.

She also calls herself grassroots! :) I wonder if she ever posts here in this grassroots thread?

Anyway, looking at her data I noticed that it seemed a little lumpy:

2012_PA_AlleghenyCountyRepubAltDelegateToNatConv18thDistScreenShot.png


So I did a histogram:
2012_PA_AlleghenyCountyRepubDelegateToNatConv18thDistHistogram2.png


Note which histogram is not normally distributed.

Brian in this chart is Ron Paul supporter and Delegate Brian P. Dougherty.
 
Last edited:
You showed us 3 out of 1775 precincts and two didn't match.

Please provide us with the remaining 1772.

Didn't match? Huh? Really? Didn't one of those that "didn't match" actually HURT Romney?


And, I hate that I have to say this again, but you're the one making the ridiculous claims. YOU are the one who needs to provide evidence for the remaining 1772 precincts.
 
Bethel Park is a hotbed of political corruption, shady backroom deals and nefarious behavior. This Sue lady is no doubt wrapped up in it.
 
You showed us 3 out of 1775 precincts and two didn't match.

Please provide us with the remaining 1772.

What didn't match? Do you mean the one where you ignored the precinct name, assumed that the name of the school where the caucus was held was the city name, and pulled some line out of something other than the official results and declared victory, and continue to do so even after I pointed out that the precinct actually is there in the data set you were using (as well as the official results), so long as you aren't looking at the wrong city?

Here's the point again, slowly.

You claim that there was flipping in Iowa at the central tabulator.

But the votes were counted manually, and with witnesses, and in many locations these results were posted on youtube, facebook, twitter, blogs, local newspapers, etc., and others were collected by watchthevote2012.

In spite of a lot of people looking for discrepancies, the only one that turned up was the one reported by Edward True. It wasn't a flipper, but the count was wrong (22 for Romney instead of 2) and the GOP had to admit it. Of all the independent reports of the manual, public counts, only one turned out to differ from the central tabulator numbers. So if a significant number of precincts were flipped, how did the flipping algorithm manage to avoid flipping the precincts that had independent reporting of the manual count via youtube, facebook, twitter, blogs, local newspapers, etc?

One possibility was that there was no flipping at the central tabulator. There was one precinct where Romney's 2 became a 22, perhaps deliberately, but otherwise the independent reports and the certified numbers out of the tabulator agreed because ... well because it's hard to have massive fraud when the votes are counted manually, in public, and the numbers are reported at the precinct level.

I'm not taking very seriously the suggestion that nobody checked. Contrary to a recent claim, the results were reported at the precinct level so no calculators were needed to untangle aggregated numbers. And there were very deliberate efforts to collect data to do precinct-level verification, so it's not very credible to suggest that they collected the data then didn't bother checking it. Moreover when Edward True's affidavit came out, there were a LOT of motivated people reviewing those results to find other discrepancies.

I think your best move here is the theory that the virus that does the flipping is a sentient AI that monitors facebook and twitter and youtube and so on, and that hacked into the watchthevote email account and into cell phones used to record counts and so on, so that it could flip just the precincts where there was no independent report of the public, manual count. That would explain why only that one discrepancy was found, one that turned out not to be flipping anyway. It would let you continue to believe that you understand the math and that graphs that don't flatline prove fraud.

EDIT:
And, I hate that I have to say this again, but you're the one making the ridiculous claims. YOU are the one who needs to provide evidence for the remaining 1772 precincts.

Um, my "ridiculous claim" is that the independent reports of the public, manual counts at numerous precincts, via youtube, facebook, twitter, blogs, local papers, etc., agree (except for the E. True case where a 2 became a 22) with the central tabulator numbers because the central tabulator wasn't manipulating the vote. It's hard to have massive fraud when the votes are counted at each precinct manually, in public, and reported in the official results with precinct-level data.

You're the one claiming that there was flipping at the central tabulator *in spite of the fact* that not a single discrepancy turned up to support this theory. If you estimate the number of precincts that had to be flipped to make the graph look the way it looks (given your idea of what the math says), and look at the number of precincts that had the manual, public count reported independently, you could calculate the odds that not a single one of those independent reports would turn out to have been made from one of the flipped precincts. Then, since that would look like a debunk of the central tabulator flipper theory, you'd have to come up with an explanation for how the central tabulator flipper managed to flip enough precincts to make the graph look the way it does *without* having a single one of those precincts turn out to be one with independent reporting.

Which of those is the "ridiculous" view?
 
Last edited:
YOU are the one who needs to provide evidence for the remaining 1772 precincts.

I disagree. If RR were right, then given how many independent reports of the manual counts were posted, and given how many precincts would have to have been flipped (according to the "not flatlining proves fraud" theory), finding a few discrepancies that show votes being flipped from one candidate to another would not only be easy, it would be sufficient to get national attention the way E. True's affidavit did.

One wonders why none of the flippers want to go looking for such excellent evidence of the vote being manipulated between the time it left the precinct and the time it showed up in the certified results. How often do you get to directly compare the results of a manual, public count and the output of the evil tabulator? There's a lot of data out there ... unfortunately it ends up being a debunk unless you think that the central tabulator is somehow smart enough to only flip the precincts that don't have independent reports from witnesses of the manual counts.
 
And he doubles down. RR you do know how to keep this thread entertaining.

Sue is a PA State level GOP insider. She deserves our full attention.

She also calls herself grassroots! :) I wonder if she ever posts here in this grassroots thread?

Anyway, looking at her data I noticed that it seemed a little lumpy:

2012_PA_AlleghenyCountyRepubAltDelegateToNatConv18thDistScreenShot.png


So I did a histogram:
2012_PA_AlleghenyCountyRepubDelegateToNatConv18thDistHistogram2.png


Note which histogram is not normally distributed.

Brian in this chart is Ron Paul supporter and Delegate Brian P. Dougherty.
 
I've got that part covered. Thanks for the offer to help.

Actually you may not have noticed (or perhaps you're just hoping other people won't notice) but you haven't explained how the central tabulator could have flipped enough precincts to make the graph look the way it looks, and not have a single one of the many precincts that had the manual, public counts reported on youtube, facebook, twitter, blogs, local papers, etc., demonstrate via a discrepancy between the numbers going into the central tabulator and the numbers coming out that votes were being taken from one candidate and given to another. Other than that ...
 

"The number of registered sex offenders compared to the number of residents in this city is a lot smaller than the state average."
Read more: http://www.city-data.com/so/so-Bethel-Park-Pennsylvania.html#ixzz1tZkNVe9p


For what it's worth, it's one of the most pleasant areas of Pennsylvania, let alone western PA.

But, by all means, go on and continue to disparage the character of a woman you've never met and an entire town. It really adds credibility to your argument.
 
Last edited:
I disagree. If RR were right, then given how many independent reports of the manual counts were posted, and given how many precincts would have to have been flipped (according to the "not flatlining proves fraud" theory), finding a few discrepancies that show votes being flipped from one candidate to another would not only be easy, it would be sufficient to get national attention the way E. True's affidavit did.

One wonders why none of the flippers want to go looking for such excellent evidence of the vote being manipulated between the time it left the precinct and the time it showed up in the certified results. How often do you get to directly compare the results of a manual, public count and the output of the evil tabulator? There's a lot of data out there ... unfortunately it ends up being a debunk unless you think that the central tabulator is somehow smart enough to only flip the precincts that don't have independent reports from witnesses of the manual counts.

I sincerely believe that these people are not smart enough to grasp the magnitude of the "algorithm" existing in caucus states. I've brought it up time and time again, and they've never even begun to seriously address it. My guess is that they don't even know where to start. All they can do is pull data and plug it into Excel.
 
Last edited:
Triple whammy!
2012_PA_AlleghenyCountyRepubSenatorGeneralAssembly37thHistogram.png


Mark Mustio strikes me as the honest one here.

Interesting, because earlier you showed a graph in which his is the only line that rises, at the expense of your new nemesis Sue Means, and you called it ballot stuffing. But now you're saying you think *he's* the honest one. So someone else was stuffing the ballot box to help him, and the fraud is revealed from the non-flatlining cumulative graph ... but they were obviously clever about it because they did it in such a way that you can tell from the histogram that Mustio was the honest one, even though he was the one benefitting from the ballot stuffing.

This one looks pretty odd:
2012_PA_AlleghenyCountyRepubSenatorGeneralAssembly37thcsv.png


It's the local assembly Republican Senator race. Only about 6,000 votes per candidate. I would not be surprised if there was a bit of ballot stuffing here.
 
"and you called it ballot stuffing"

Yes and I still do. This is the weirdest chart ever. Totally unnatural and very jagged in the first 20-30%. That's typical of ballot stuffing.

So as Raj increased, Sue and Mustio dropped. She may have tried flipping but maybe not. It's hard to tell, but it definitely is a weird chart.

With ballot stuffing you get strange lines. Non-normal distributions and stuff like that:

600px-2011_Duma_votes.svg.png


In regards to the above chart: "The Wall Street Journal, working with political scientists from the University of Michigan and the University of Chicago, published their own analysis of the election results, and pointed out a number of features which they believe indicate fraud. They estimate that as many as 14 million of the 65.7 million votes may be fraudulent."
 
Last edited:
There's flipping in Maine too; not sure what your point is.

Yep, I had to look it up:

Mainecsv.png


What's interesting here is that it looks like Ron was the direct target of Romney's flipping. Note how the two curves are a mirror image of each others.

In due time all that flipping will become one hell of a flop for Romney. "Flip-Flopper" will not be enough to describe him.
 
Last edited:
In spite of a lot of people looking for discrepancies, the only one that turned up was the one reported by Edward True.


Hmmm.....You apparently haven't learned your lesson yet. Just talked to Edward L. True for over an hour last night. He reports that there were 144 discrepancies from the originally posted, centrally "tampered" results. Glad you went "slowly" in your post. I'll have to study it for other gross discrepancies---or might I say lies.
 
In spite of a lot of people looking for discrepancies, the only one that turned up was the one reported by Edward True.

Remember, that's the counter held at that secret, unannounced location, you know, the one, where Karl Rove claimed the bizarre incident of the missing ballot truck, the one lost somewhere on the rural road?

There was no ballot truck, as you well know. That was a ruse, a kind of inane false flag, to detract attention from the terminal vote manipulation perpetrated by the GOP.
 
Last edited:
Hmmm.....You apparently haven't learned your lesson yet. Just talked to Edward L. True for over an hour last night. He reports that there were 144 discrepancies from the originally posted, centrally "tampered" results. Glad you went "slowly" in your post. I'll have to study it for other gross discrepancies---or might I say lies.

So you're saying they found 144 discrepancies, and chose only to publicize one of them? What are they waiting for?

EDIT: I'm not clear on why you're accusing me of lying, if they're the ones who are sitting on evidence of 144 discrepancies that *could* have been publicized back when Edward True's story was being carried by CNN and Newsweek and so on. With Santorum and Romney only separated by a handful of votes, showing that not one but ONE HUNDRED AND FORTY FOUR precincts had discrepancies would have been dynamite.

The next question is whether those discrepancies show the kind of very, very clear pattern that an algorithmic flipper would reveal. You'd see over and over again that the same candidate was gaining the same number of votes that another candidate was losing. Now that's a proof of fraud that nobody could deny.

EDIT: In 2008, the Paul was very careful about the vote in Iowa. They had supporters in every precinct, who phoned in the results to a campaign hotline for comparison against the official numbers. (http://www.bbvforums.org/forums/messages/157/71301.html?1200241974). Are we supposed to believe that in 2012 they didn't take similar precautions? Or that they did, and also decided to keep quiet about more than a hundred discrepancies?

If there was flipping in Iowa then because the counting was done manually, and in public so that anyone could observe and take video and photos to document the results, systematic fraud should be easy to prove. Flipping would have to have been done in hundreds of precincts to make the graph look the way it looks (given the bogus assumption that a non-fraud graph must be flat). A first-hand report of the manual counting in just one flipped precinct, showing that the official "flipped" numbers took some number of votes from one candidate and gave them to another, would be huge. If it were one of the precincts with photographic or video evidence, it would be on the front pages of every newspaper. And with hundreds of flipped precincts and a coordinated effort to have Ron Paul supporters document the results of the manual counting, what are the odds of not having a single flipped precinct be one where the manual count was recorded independently?

Am I now supposed to believe that someone is sitting on more than a hundred cases of this kind of evidence? In addition to over a hundred individuals who went to the trouble of making those first-hand reports themselves? And that the Paul campaign either knows that this undeniable proof of fraud exists, or after being so careful to monitor the counting in 2008 they decided just to trust the GOP machine in 2012?

I'll believe it when I see the data.
 
Last edited:
Back
Top