The Bloody Road out of Iowa and the Icey Finger of Blame

Spirit of '76 said:
I watched these forums last night as the results rolled in and our spirits fell, and what I saw shocked me. I read with dismay the comments of many posters on this board, and only shook my head at the naivete and anti-social attitudes on display here.

I watched people ranting about "stupid cornfed hicks ruining everything".

Even worse, I watched agape as people ranted about our elders,...
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Yup. With you there, Spirit.

The results in Iowa were disappointing, but nowhere near as disappointing as a few of the attitudes exhibited on this forum afterwards.

Very sad.
 
Good Post! Its the big leagues now and we have to get to work making our case to Republican voters. Simple as that - our immediate task isn't the presidency, but the Republican nomination and you don't win people over by vilifying them or their views.
 
Well said, Spirit. What raises the bar even higher for us is that RP is not simply your standard neo-conservative Republican message in a kinder, gentler package.

We can't gain ground with standard popularity contest tactics; because it's not about our guy as much as it is about our message. And our message, more than any other candidate in either party, is about real change.

Frankly, change makes people uncomfortable. Even in the face of deep dissatisfaction, the prospect of doing things differently scares folks. So the job of this movement is not only to convince people that our candidate is credible, but to clearly differentiate our platform from the rest of the field and convince people that it best addresses the needs of this country and its citizens. That means you not only have to be able to parrot the message, but actually discuss and explain it to people. This requires understanding, sensitivity, patience, and diplomacy.

Tough job? Yep. Worth the effort? Of course.
 
Very much so, and I think an equally important factor is just they get to know us.

Some of them have heard varying things about Ron Paul supporters -- we're all conspiracy kooks, MoveOn.org members, etc. -- but they've never actually met a Ron Paul supporter in real life.

They need to see that we're normal people with good values who want the best for our country. They need to see that we're smart, enthusiastic, and aware of current events. They need to see that we are their neighbors, and we need to be good neighbors.

They need reassurance that this is not just a "fringe" movement before they can even think about coming around to our side.
 
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Spirit of '76 said:
Last night we all watched as our expectations were crushed in Iowa, and today everyone is asking, "Why did it happen like this? Who is to blame?"

People are casting around and throwing aspersions on all and sundry, from the campaign staff to the media to the voters of Iowa. But no one is willing to address the most pertinent question of all -- what could we, the grassroots, have done differently? No one seems willing to engage in a little introspection and see where our fault lies.

Sure, the campaign bears some blame. We've all heard the horror stories about how they don't effectively exploit the media, don't actively court big name endorsements, don't coordinate well enough with the grassroots, and all that.

Ron himself bears some of the blame for not holding his staff more accountable for the poor performance thus far, for not working hard enough to streamline his presentation, for not spending enough time on the trail shaking hands and making his case to people besides his already die-hard supporters, and more.

But how many times have we in the grassroots found ourselves saying, "If we win it will be in spite of the campaign staff, not because of them! If we win it will because of us"?

Well, last night shows us just how far We the People still have to go. Last night exposes so many of our weaknesses. Last night gives us cause to look at ourselves for once and try to figure out where we went wrong.


I watched these forums last night as the results rolled in and our spirits fell, and what I saw shocked me. I read with dismay the comments of many posters on this board, and only shook my head at the naivete and anti-social attitudes on display here.

And no, I'm not talking about the "OMGZ! It's all over! I give up!" posts. I'm talking about the ones where people were cursing the voters of Iowa and blaming them for our failure.

I watched people ranting about "stupid cornfed hicks ruining everything". Well, guess what! "Cornfed hicks" vote too. They always have, and usually in much greater numbers than our current support base of young suburbanites. Moreover, most rural voters haven't even heard of Ron Paul, because they don't spend all damned day on the internet or sipping Starbucks in some trendy wifi hotspot.

They are the working people who make up the backbone of this nation, and indeed of the Republican Party, whose nomination we are trying to win, and if you want to win this thing you'd better drop the superiority complex and start courting them.

Even worse, I watched agape as people ranted about our elders, who have always been the people who are most politically active, saying idiotic things like, "I fucking hate old people", and "look at all these damned old people OMG".

Let me tell you something: If you didn't know that the elderly were going to turn out to vote on election day, you must have been living in a fucking cave all your life. It is axiomatic in politics that college students make a big noise and get in everyone's face in the run up to election day, but then sit on their asses when the time comes, whereas the elderly quietly go about their business, letting the politicians come to them, and then roll out on election day and decide who wins and who loses.

And if you think you can bring them around to our guy with an "I fucking hate old people" attitude, you are severely deluded and are no help at all to our cause.

Yeah, I've heard all the arguments about how old people are just selfish and looking out for themselves and their social security checks, and I tell you right now that it's bullshit. Those kinds of remarks come from the same people who "fucking hate old people" and think we can rely on college kids to get and vote for us.

If you want to win this thing, you'd better start showing some respect for the people who actually vote. You'd better become 'that nice young man who held the door for me and gave me this Ron Paul flier.'

But most important of all, so many people here think we can rely on Independents and crossover Democrats to win this thing for us, and last night just goes to show that type of thinking is idiocy.

This is a Republican primary, and it will be decided by Republicans. Sure, I welcome all the crossover and Indy support we can get. We love you guys and you're sorely needed, but we have to face the facts -- you cannot win this election for us all on your own.

Too many of you out there are living in a fucking fantasy land if you think we can win the Republican primary by just doing our own thing, looking down our noses at the average Republican, calling him a "rethug" or a "repug", and screaming "Neocon!!!!!" at everyone who questions or disagrees with us.

I guarantee that most of those people caucusing last night had never met a real life Ron Paul supporter before, and probably half of them had never even heard of Ron Paul. Why is that? Is it a failure of the campaign? Is it the fault of the media? Of course, but only in part.

We should know by now that we cannot expect the media to help get our message out there. We can't expect the campaign to do it for us, either. What we have to do, if we want to win the Republican nomination, is take over the whole damned Party, and we ain't going to do that on the Internet.

How many of you -- be honest -- have actually attended a Republican Party meeting or event in your area? How many of you introduced yourselves to the GOP officials in your county? How many of you have volunteered to be a precinct captain or a poll worker? How many of you have actually marched into the lions' den and made the case for Daniel?

Not enough of you, I guarantee it.

I'm telling you now. We will never win this thing unless more of you put your prejudices aside, put on a decent shirt and a tie, and go show the Republican Party activists in your area that Ron Paul supporters are real people with real concerns and real conservative values. Show them that we are the future of the Party and that they need to get on board with us if they expect to win the general election or maintain any shred of relevance in the coming years.

It's far too easy to look at them and make excuses and blame them for our apparent lack of success than it is to look at ourselves and ask, "What could I do to bring these people around?"

But the answer is easy, and it just starts with introducing yourself. I don't care what your background is or what feelings you've had for the Republican Party until this point. The fact is that we're not going to win the Republican primary without courting the Republican voters, so you'd better hold your nose and take the plunge.
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Wow. One of the smartest posts on the forum.
 
As a recovering Republican I was NOT happy about the thought of going to the county headquarters and signing up as a precinct chair. The Republicans have disappointed me too many times before to commit any affection to them. However, Dr. Paul is a once in a lifetime shot at changing the decline of this country, so I did it.
 
This is an interesting thread. A couple of points made that are good:

- We were close to third, we're now - in the only actual vote to have taken place - into double digits and it seems everyone not on this board was impressed. CNN called Ron's result "solid".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7offuHK3mZI

From the original post - Spirit made many excellent points. Most of all is to engage with the local republican establishment. Why do you think they joined that party? Cut taxes, smaller government, fiscal conservatism; these guys are hardly the enemy! Even on the war front many do (check the stats) want peace and want out of Iraq. Point out how it damages finances, creates more terrorists and how foreign interventionism is a Democrat policy. Put on a shirt and tie, hook up with them, be polite and we can go far.

Another point more generally is the older folks. It amazes me too to see the hostility to them. They are Ron's natural supporters. Theyw ill like him on a personal level - doctor, faithful to wife, honest, veteran, conservative, christian. They are also likely to rememebr the days before Clinton and Bush really started the push for socialism of modern days. They should be our no. 1 priority, We ought to try to get every old person out for RP.

Has anyone here tried going to an old folks home? Or to visit a relative in one and leave them some RP literature?
 
Spirit of '76 said:
Last night we all watched as our expectations were crushed in Iowa, and today everyone is asking, "Why did it happen like this? Who is to blame?"

People are casting around and throwing aspersions on all and sundry, from the campaign staff to the media to the voters of Iowa. But no one is willing to address the most pertinent question of all -- what could we, the grassroots, have done differently? No one seems willing to engage in a little introspection and see where our fault lies.

Sure, the campaign bears some blame. We've all heard the horror stories about how they don't effectively exploit the media, don't actively court big name endorsements, don't coordinate well enough with the grassroots, and all that.

Ron himself bears some of the blame for not holding his staff more accountable for the poor performance thus far, for not working hard enough to streamline his presentation, for not spending enough time on the trail shaking hands and making his case to people besides his already die-hard supporters, and more.

But how many times have we in the grassroots found ourselves saying, "If we win it will be in spite of the campaign staff, not because of them! If we win it will because of us"?

Well, last night shows us just how far We the People still have to go. Last night exposes so many of our weaknesses. Last night gives us cause to look at ourselves for once and try to figure out where we went wrong.


I watched these forums last night as the results rolled in and our spirits fell, and what I saw shocked me. I read with dismay the comments of many posters on this board, and only shook my head at the naivete and anti-social attitudes on display here.

And no, I'm not talking about the "OMGZ! It's all over! I give up!" posts. I'm talking about the ones where people were cursing the voters of Iowa and blaming them for our failure.

I watched people ranting about "stupid cornfed hicks ruining everything". Well, guess what! "Cornfed hicks" vote too. They always have, and usually in much greater numbers than our current support base of young suburbanites. Moreover, most rural voters haven't even heard of Ron Paul, because they don't spend all damned day on the internet or sipping Starbucks in some trendy wifi hotspot.

They are the working people who make up the backbone of this nation, and indeed of the Republican Party, whose nomination we are trying to win, and if you want to win this thing you'd better drop the superiority complex and start courting them.

Even worse, I watched agape as people ranted about our elders, who have always been the people who are most politically active, saying idiotic things like, "I fucking hate old people", and "look at all these damned old people OMG".

Let me tell you something: If you didn't know that the elderly were going to turn out to vote on election day, you must have been living in a fucking cave all your life. It is axiomatic in politics that college students make a big noise and get in everyone's face in the run up to election day, but then sit on their asses when the time comes, whereas the elderly quietly go about their business, letting the politicians come to them, and then roll out on election day and decide who wins and who loses.

And if you think you can bring them around to our guy with an "I fucking hate old people" attitude, you are severely deluded and are no help at all to our cause.

Yeah, I've heard all the arguments about how old people are just selfish and looking out for themselves and their social security checks, and I tell you right now that it's bullshit. Those kinds of remarks come from the same people who "fucking hate old people" and think we can rely on college kids to get and vote for us.

If you want to win this thing, you'd better start showing some respect for the people who actually vote. You'd better become 'that nice young man who held the door for me and gave me this Ron Paul flier.'

But most important of all, so many people here think we can rely on Independents and crossover Democrats to win this thing for us, and last night just goes to show that type of thinking is idiocy.

This is a Republican primary, and it will be decided by Republicans. Sure, I welcome all the crossover and Indy support we can get. We love you guys and you're sorely needed, but we have to face the facts -- you cannot win this election for us all on your own.

Too many of you out there are living in a fucking fantasy land if you think we can win the Republican primary by just doing our own thing, looking down our noses at the average Republican, calling him a "rethug" or a "repug", and screaming "Neocon!!!!!" at everyone who questions or disagrees with us.

I guarantee that most of those people caucusing last night had never met a real life Ron Paul supporter before, and probably half of them had never even heard of Ron Paul. Why is that? Is it a failure of the campaign? Is it the fault of the media? Of course, but only in part.

We should know by now that we cannot expect the media to help get our message out there. We can't expect the campaign to do it for us, either. What we have to do, if we want to win the Republican nomination, is take over the whole damned Party, and we ain't going to do that on the Internet.

How many of you -- be honest -- have actually attended a Republican Party meeting or event in your area? How many of you introduced yourselves to the GOP officials in your county? How many of you have volunteered to be a precinct captain or a poll worker? How many of you have actually marched into the lions' den and made the case for Daniel?

Not enough of you, I guarantee it.

I'm telling you now. We will never win this thing unless more of you put your prejudices aside, put on a decent shirt and a tie, and go show the Republican Party activists in your area that Ron Paul supporters are real people with real concerns and real conservative values. Show them that we are the future of the Party and that they need to get on board with us if they expect to win the general election or maintain any shred of relevance in the coming years.

It's far too easy to look at them and make excuses and blame them for our apparent lack of success than it is to look at ourselves and ask, "What could I do to bring these people around?"

But the answer is easy, and it just starts with introducing yourself. I don't care what your background is or what feelings you've had for the Republican Party until this point. The fact is that we're not going to win the Republican primary without courting the Republican voters, so you'd better hold your nose and take the plunge.
Click to expand...


You're spot on with this. I keep repeating this message in other threads. Then I hear crickets chirping.

The fact is Paul's internet base (on the whole) aren't Republicans. They hate Republicans. Republicans are ignorant, inbred, churchgoing, knuckle-dragging neanderthals who have yet to "see the light." Right?

If the grassroots has gotten Paul this far, and attracted a huge number of non-traditional voters, a course correction is now needed to attract Republican, in order to actually have a chance to win the nomination. But it is impossible to convince people Paul should be talking about anything other than pulling out of Iraq when they don't agree with the Republican base on issues like abortion and immigration.

Paul can't win as the anti-war pacifist candidate (unless he were running as a Democrat). Not in the Republican primary. When Paul ran an effective immigration ad targeted at Republicans the base called it "racist" and "collectivist". Immigration is the second most important issue for Republicans right now (Iraq 5th). Guys with crap records on immigration are getting more voters than Paul on that specific issue simply because they're campaigning on it.

Bottom line: keep being the anti-war guy, and he'll stay at 10% or less since he's already attracted the independents and Democratic crossovers.

Attract Republicans with a conservative message on abortion, gun control, the economy, and immigration, and THEN sell them on the non-intervention stuff is the way to get the Republican base voters. But I don't think the grassroots will embrace that at all. They despise average Republicans and have nothing in common with them.

But the current situation is like if Joe Lieberman ran as a Democrat as a stay-the-course-in-Iraq candidate, but had all kinds of Democratic talking points like government health care, eliminating tax cuts for the wealthy, strengthening unions or whatever but refused to talk about any of them.

Iraq isn't the only subject and Paul absolutely cannot get the Republican nomination based on that issue.
 
mrchubbs said:
It seems to me that the MSM attention to Huckabee came *after* he rose in the polls.
Click to expand...

Actually it was *after* his speech on foreign policy was posted on the front page of the CFR website as 'essential'. That's when the MSM started to report on him going up and the polls and voila! He went up!
 
Wow!

You said it better than I can, Spirit. You are right. There is plenty of blame to go around (looking in the mirror.)

To New Hampshire! And Beyond!
 
I agree this thing is impossible win without the GOP baby boomers, they are still the biggest demographic, and they wield the most power, the sad part about this is that they have been brainwashed with lies the longest, that makes it very tough.

Young people are open to new idea's, just like Ron Pauls
 
Thanks, folks. I'm glad to see so many of you see where I'm coming from.

Sometimes it's like Ron Paul's supporters just aren't listening to what the man himself is saying. He chose to run as a Republican because he represents a very important and traditional strain of Republican thought.
 
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