The anarchists are the realists, not the utopian dreamers.

Theocrat said:
Yes, I know they are, but at least they can be brought up on charges of fraud, theft, etc. in a court of law, if the occasion arises. Justice can be served.

We can revolt and take back the liberty wherewith God made us free, but it's going to have to begin internally within each man's heart. It may take time, but through education and prayer, I'm confident something may arise.

I would very much like to have a decrease in paying taxes and not even have to register the vehicle which I own. However, the laws which govern those things can be repealed if we do what's necessary to stop it.
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Not by you and not by me. Not to mention the government you slap in its place will grow to be just as bad. Personally I'm not going to wait around for someone to repeal it for me and I'm not going to wait around for the idiotic voting masses to come to their senses - not when I can just stop paying right now.
 
Your Choice Against Others

Truth Warrior said:
Voters TOTALLY are a MINORITY of "We the People", by a factor of about 2 to 1. :p ;) And THEY usually split about 50/50. :rolleyes:
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Guess what, TW. I'm going to continue to vote. So either you start doing the same to make a change, or sit home and do nothing, all the while having your life, liberty, and property affected by other people's votes. That's the system you live in.

Oh, I forgot one more option. You can move...to Somalia, which is infested by domestic Islamic "freedom fighters." ;)
 
Theocrat said:
It's not so much that I don't trust myself as I don't trust other people, like those freedom-loving murderers, thieves, rapists, arsonists, kidnappers, psychopaths, and cannibals out there in society. Anarchy gives them way too much freedom to live out their behaviors in an open fashion.
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Archy does nothing to solve those problems. It simply allows the State a monopoly on "legitimate" initiation of force. And who watches over them? NOONE. The victims of state brutality are either dead or legally silenced.

If you want these problems solved, you must hire a security company to care for you 24/7. Carry a gun, mace, pepper spray, tazer, etc. Government security only works AFTER the crime occurs. IT IS NOT DEFENSE. Never has been, never will be (unless you live in a police station or military barrack).
 
Theocrat said:
Yes, I know they are, but at least they can be brought up on charges of fraud, theft, etc. in a court of law, if the occasion arises. Justice can be served.

We can revolt and take back the liberty wherewith God made us free, but it's going to have to begin internally within each man's heart. It may take time, but through education and prayer, I'm confident something may arise.

I would very much like to have a decrease in paying taxes and not even have to register the vehicle which I own. However, the laws which govern those things can be repealed if we do what's necessary to stop it.
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Screw revenge, retribution and punishment AFTER the fact. To put it in your terms, that God's job.

How about some serious prevention and protection creative thinking for a refreshing change of pace? < LOL! >
 
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Anarchy is the embryonic stage of society and will never work. It will never work because the construction of society and its 'benefits' to the populous is always expanding. When is the last time you saw a government institution claim it was too big and decided to cut 1/3 of its state employees? The power continues to shift into the hands that seek it, have it and hand it out. The people and the government must eventually come to a healthy balance for a decent society to thrive but mind you is hard to achieve, as government seeks expansion like a virus.
 
eOs said:
Anarchy is the embryonic stage of society and will never work. It will never work because the construction of society and its 'benefits' to the populous is always expanding. When is the last time you saw a government institution claim it was too big and decided to cut 1/3 of its state employees? The power continues to shift into the hands that seek it, have it and hand it out. The people and the government must eventually come to a healthy balance for a decent society to thrive but mind you is hard to achieve, as government seeks expansion like a virus.
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In any relationship where one side holds the monopoly on force, a healthy balance is not possible.
 
Kraig said:
Just a thought I wanted to share. Government does not work and history has proven this. Even a government with such a wonderful start as the US constitution has now been proven as a failure, anarchists are not the ones ignoring history. The real Utopian dreamers are those who wish and believe in something that cannot exist for anything longer than a short period of time - limited government.

I believe limited government should be the goal for now, but never the end goal. If we, or someone, was to somehow create an ideal form of government - lets say it is even better than the US constitution - to remain ideal after it's creation it would have to work towards anarchy, not big government. I don't think a stand still is possible, I'm not even sure if a limited government working towards anarchy would be possible. Perhaps if the original enlightened men who created it worked towards this goal and set a trend it could last until government grew so small it did not exist.

Once an ideal limited government grows one inch bigger, it's days are numbered and it's path to tyranny is short.
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I really think we need to change the rhetoric. The name anarchist is way to tainted in most people's minds, and can be confusing, as some leftist groups who were not opposed to violence have used this name as well.

Please use voluntaryist, or something similar. I think it captures what you mean more accurately -- no intiation of violence.
 
Theocrat said:
It's not so much that I don't trust myself as I don't trust other people, like those freedom-loving murderers, thieves, rapists, arsonists, kidnappers, psychopaths, and cannibals out there in society. Anarchy gives them way too much freedom to live out their behaviors in an open fashion.
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Murderers, rapists, arsonists, kidnappers and psychopaths? I wish you stop invoking the basic premise of government action when we're talking about peaceful Anarchists ;)

Anarchy does not give anyone any freedom to do harm to others. In fact, I would wager a guess that we would have much less of the aforementioned actions in an Anarchist society. It's truly government that brings out these types of things on it's people and it leads by example.
 
Anarchy Fails in the Little Matters

heavenlyboy34 said:
Archy does nothing to solve those problems. It simply allows the State a monopoly on "legitimate" initiation of force. And who watches over them? NOONE. The victims of state brutality are either dead or legally silenced.

If you want these problems solved, you must hire a security company to care for you 24/7. Carry a gun, mace, pepper spray, tazer, etc. Government security only works AFTER the crime occurs. IT IS NOT DEFENSE. Never has been, never will be (unless you live in a police station or military barrack).
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All you're stating here is that there are problems with how the government regulates the ownership of firearms. I agree, but the solution is not to get rid of government totally. That's like chopping off your whole foot just because your have a bunion on your big toe. That is simply an overreaction.

In an anarchy, what happens to a household which has a gun, mace, pepper spray, and tazer that gets robbed by a group with more guns, more mace, more pepper spray, and more tazers? They will not only take over that household and possibly kill the residents, but they get away with it because there is no police nor court to go to for appeals of justice.

Also, how would an anarchical society handle mishaps and incidents involving firearms against others, say, like your neighbors? One person discharges his gun at a person he suspects is a rapist. The rapist doesn't die, but the shooter suddenly doesn't feel sorry for shooting the accused rapist. He leaves him out on his front lawn bleeding, and then he closes the door. In an anarchical society, the shooter has every justification for doing that, and no one can report a complaint against him or even take him to court for charges and damages. You may say there are private courts, but why should the private court have any authorization over subpoenaing the shooter to a private trial? It just won't work.
 
Why dont you go back and read. It clearly explains how the standard of living has greatly increased since the government was abolished in 1991. And who is to say the tribal leaders aren't as just as the aforementioned government was?
 
eOs said:
Yes, me neither, who doesn't want their province run by 'a deeply divided collection of warlords and tribal leaders' ?? Heck, I'm thinkin' bout movin' there.
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What we need is one overlord. Thank God for Obama!
 
Theocrat said:
All you're stating here is that there are problems with how the government regulates the ownership of firearms. I agree, but the solution is not to get rid of government totally. That's like chopping off your whole foot just because your have a bunion on your big toe. That is simply an overreaction.

In an anarchy, what happens to a household which has a gun, mace, pepper spray, and tazer that gets robbed by a group with more guns, more mace, more pepper spray, and more tazers? They will not only take over that household and possibly kill the residents, but they get away with it because there is no police nor court to go to for appeals of justice.

Also, how would an anarchical society handle mishaps and incidents involving firearms against others, say, like your neighbors? One person discharges his gun at a person he suspects is a rapist. The rapist doesn't die, but the shooter suddenly doesn't feel sorry for shooting the accused rapist. He leaves him out on his front lawn bleeding, and then he closes the door. In an anarchical society, the shooter has every justification for doing that, and no one can report a complaint against him or even take him to court for charges and damages. You may say there are private courts, but why should the private court have any authorization over subpoenaing the shooter to a private trial? It just won't work.
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Random violence and unsolved crime occurs in archist societies too (there would be no need for "America's Most Wanted" and such things if this weren't the case). Your case is terribly shoddy, and I dealt with it when we were previously discussing justice in a stateless society. (I can dig it up again, if you like)

I ask that you show me an archist society that has a fully functional, ethical, uncorrupt "justice" system. I am not aware of any.

p.s. Criminal science and security techniques almost always develop in the private sector-not the government, FYI. ;):)
P.P.S.
[FONT=Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif][FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]Don’t Call the Cops. Ever.[/FONT][/FONT]
 
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jmlfod87 said:
Why dont you go back and read. It clearly explains how the standard of living has greatly increased since the government was abolished in 1991. And who is to say the tribal leaders aren't as just as the aforementioned government was?
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Not to mention:
http://www.redorbit.com/news/general/527884/experts_say_us_funding_somali_warlords/index.html

Warlords being propped up the the state and ultimately the masses who give them money. Not much of an example of anarchy when the state is still there funding it's chosen side.
 
Theocrat said:
All you're stating here is that there are problems with how the government regulates the ownership of firearms. I agree, but the solution is not to get rid of government totally. That's like chopping off your whole foot just because your have a bunion on your big toe. That is simply an overreaction.

In an anarchy, what happens to a household which has a gun, mace, pepper spray, and tazer that gets robbed by a group with more guns, more mace, more pepper spray, and more tazers? They will not only take over that household and possibly kill the residents, but they get away with it because there is no police nor court to go to for appeals of justice.

Also, how would an anarchical society handle mishaps and incidents involving firearms against others, say, like your neighbors? One person discharges his gun at a person he suspects is a rapist. The rapist doesn't die, but the shooter suddenly doesn't feel sorry for shooting the accused rapist. He leaves him out on his front lawn bleeding, and then he closes the door. In an anarchical society, the shooter has every justification for doing that, and no one can report a complaint against him or even take him to court for charges and damages. You may say there are private courts, but why should the private court have any authorization over subpoenaing the shooter to a private trial? It just won't work.
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No, I'm arguing that government does not do what you claim (protect people) and showing you that individuals/private enterprise can handle it better, cheaper, and safer. The hypothetical you mentioned has been covered in previous threads about autarchism, and I don't see a need to do it again. Go read the books that I and the other autarchists have mentioned. (such as "The Case For Liberty")

If I'm feeling patient some other time, I'll outline autarchist justice for you as best I can without creating a book length block of text. :eek:;):cool: TTYL. ~hugs~

Don't forget to read this: [FONT=Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif][FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]Don’t Call the Cops. Ever.[/FONT][/FONT]
 
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